Analysis The Rebuilds of West Coast and Richmond and their Future Prospects

[tiger_tough]

How are they even winning one flag? They can't even overtake Hawthorn at this stage. At what stage will they overtake them?

Richmond were only seven months younger than the Hawks today.

Players with less than 100 games experience today:

Hawthorn 13
Richmond 14


More than 150 games experience today:

Hawthorn 6
Richmond 8

7y
And you looked like a VFL side compared to us, we barely got out of second gear. Good luck.

Less than 100 is cherry picking at its finest. Do the same task for under 50 games. Or under 30. Or under 20. The brackets that affect the result the most.

We had the 2nd least experienced side of the round, behind Freo. Hawks had the 8th most experienced....

Hawks are in great shape, you don't need to pretend that they're ahead of their time by cherry picking favourable stats against a rebuilding side. Hawks are coming into the prime age and experience bracket, and playing like it.

 

[tiger_tough]

Richmonds rebuild has been driven by a mass exodus of premiership players which the club neither planned or instigated..There is absolutely nothing 'smart' about it

Considering the 2 players we got 4 1st rounders for were contracted long term, there was certainly a decision to be made.

I think we made the smart one. I think every objective footy fan would say the same.

 

[Rich01]

Richmonds rebuild has been driven by a mass exodus of premiership players which the club neither planned or instigated..There is absolutely nothing 'smart' about it

It was incredibly smart in the way it was handled.

Soldo and Graham for essentially a late first.

Rioli and a couple of seconds for a top ten and another top 5 pick.

Baker for a mid first (lol).

Bolton for two firsts.

The club went down the draft path once it knew these players were out and absolutely maximised their returns.

I’m not sure what West Coasts rebuild plan is, three years in. Draft a bit of high end talent, trade down from high end talent, get some retreads in. Sign older players. Get rid of other older players.Put your hand out for draft compo. It’s all pretty helter skelter.

 

[Grumpyshades]

It was incredibly smart in the way it was handled.

Soldo and Graham for essentially a late first.

Rioli and a couple of seconds for a top ten and another top 5 pick.

Baker for a mid first (lol).

Bolton for two firsts.

The club went down the draft path once it knew these players were out and absolutely maximised their returns.

I’m not sure what West Coasts rebuild plan is, three years in. Draft a bit of high end talent, trade down from high end talent, get some retreads in. Sign older players. Get rid of other older players.Put your hand out for draft compo. It’s all pretty helter skelter.

you made the best of a negative...hardly the masterstroke you and fellow supporters are trying to claim
yes we have all heard the salt drenched vfl narrative about WC....yawn. It doesn't really matter what direction the Eagles take. The negative will still be found to feed the simpleton sooky goldfish on the east coast

- split pick 2 to get 2 high picks = omg why didnt you pick a sooky Vic kid who made it clear he wasn't leaving Victoria (yet another advantage of the Vfl)

- use pick 1 to draft the best kid in the country = omg why didnt you split the pick to get more quantity and experience. HE IS GOING TO LEAVE. on a constant sooky VFL loop

- trade pick 3 to get experience and draft the best WA kid = see point 1

rinse repeat..It fools the goldfish though

 

[tiger_tough]

you made the best of a negative...hardly the masterstroke you and fellow supporters are trying to claim
yes we have all heard the salt drenched vfl narrative about WC....yawn. It doesn't really matter what direction the Eagles take. The negative will still be found to feed the simpleton sooky goldfish on the east coast

Not sure anyone's called it a master-stroke.

Compare it to the Dees for example. They refused to deal their 2 long term contracted guns in Petracca and Oliver (twice). Now Oliver still wants out, his trade value is diminished and his ridiculous contract is a major road block. And they're still bottom 4, and have won 1 more game than us.

One club made the smart decision, one club was too stubborn and failed to see the Forrest for the trees

 

[CobberRodgers]

Not sure anyone's called it a master-stroke.

Compare it to the Dees for example. They refused to deal their 2 long term contracted guns in Petracca and Oliver (twice). Now Oliver still wants out, his trade value is diminished and his ridiculous contract is a major road block. And they're still bottom 4, and have won 1 more game than us.

One club made the smart decision, one club was too stubborn and failed to see the Forrest for the trees

Agree with this.

Richmond definitely found themselves in a great position as far as other clubs wanting some of their players and paying full price, that doesn’t always happen, but as soon as they knew where they were at and that clubs were going to pay up, they committed to a new plan and went balls in.

Melbourne will be more competitive for a while, but in the long term I think they’ve missed an opportunity to do the same and will regret it. Would have been a hard sell to the members at the time, but so is a slow burn.

 

[TigerTime88]

Richmonds rebuild has been driven by a mass exodus of premiership players which the club neither planned or instigated..There is absolutely nothing 'smart' about it

It's a been a blessing in disguise though.

 

[Grrr]

Richmond was in a unique position. It had come off 3x Premierships, and some of those players who had helped bring them that success wanted a change, or saw the rebuild coming and wanted out before perhaps they might not have survived much longer, or just wanted to go home.

Richmond owed them, and so did not stand in their way. They did not shop them, certainly did not want to lose a couple of them, but did well out of the trades that they made. Lucky in many ways, very well handled by Blair Hartley, and a good draft to have such a good hand in.

Not really comparable to many clubs, Hawks after their success bottomed out but did not get the hand that Richmond did so rebuilt more slowly.

Richmond's rebuild has just started so it is presumptuous to suggest we will rebound quickly, very reliant on past players this year in particular, but some good signs is all it is at the moment.

 

[Rich01]

you made the best of a negative...hardly the masterstroke you and fellow supporters are trying to claim

I agree with you - we made the most of the situation. And we were in desperate need of a rebuild. So it came at the perfect time.

Out path was clear but once the players decided to go we maximised the opportunity to execute the plan.

It actually all started with trading soldo and accumulating 3rd rounders the year before to use to trade up in the draft.

yes we have all heard the salt drenched vfl narrative about WC....yawn. It doesn't really matter what direction the Eagles take. The negative will still be found to feed the simpleton sooky goldfish on the east coast

- split pick 2 to get 2 high picks = omg why didnt you pick a sooky Vic kid who made it clear he wasn't leaving Victoria (yet another advantage of the Vfl)

- use pick 1 to draft the best kid in the country = omg why didnt you split the pick to get more quantity and experience. HE IS GOING TO LEAVE. on a constant sooky VFL loop

- trade pick 3 to get experience and draft the best WA kid = see point 1

rinse repeat..It fools the goldfish though

Lots of emotion and strangely some east coast bitterness in your post.

Let’s rationalise it a bit.

Picked Harley- great decision. The challenge is to keep him. It’s obvious that $$$ isn’t the only way to do that, but that’s all he’s seen from West Coast. What’s their vision to him to get him to stay?

The Barass trade. Good move in theory even though it exposes what little tall defenders you have in the long term.

Hawks first rounder was rejected - that was Murphy Reid. Instead you took the Hawks future first and second (why the hell didn’t they choose the Carlton picks here is equally baffling) which will probably be a pick in the 20s and 40s in a shallow draft.

Downgraded from pick 3 to 12 and 14 and gave away the Murphy Reid pick for a 27 year old half back flanker.

On the flip signed waterman to a long term deal after a career year. And a broken down 31 year old mid for three more. You can’t get rid of them all though.

Picked up retreads in Owies and Graham for not much.

Actively pursued Warner but that seemed to fizzle out.

Play your best forward and captain in the backline and look to push him out for a draft pick.

Fans calling for the club to go cap in hand for draft assistance because they are so ass.

So what’s the plan?

Hit the top end of the draft or obtain more middling picks? Keep Harley or cash him out? Offload the captain or keep for experience and team balance? Trade in a star to build around or keep picks for the draft instead? Recruit retreads to drive standards and competitiveness or get more games into the kids?

From the outside it looks like a bit of everything.

 

[Warhorse]

Not sure anyone's called it a master-stroke.

Compare it to the Dees for example. They refused to deal their 2 long term contracted guns in Petracca and Oliver (twice). Now Oliver still wants out, his trade value is diminished and his ridiculous contract is a major road block. And they're still bottom 4, and have won 1 more game than us.

One club made the smart decision, one club was too stubborn and failed to see the Forrest for the trees

Pushed out softer 'cream' type players in Rioli and Bolton. Kept the big body midfielders around to protect the young players and leadership. Bent over West Coast with the Baker trade.

I'm envious of the sensational work the Richmond team was able to do over the period

 

[tiger_tough]

Pushed out softer 'cream' type players in Rioli and Bolton. Kept the big body midfielders around to protect the young players and leadership. Bent over West Coast with the Baker trade.

I'm envious of the sensational work the Richmond team was able to do over the period

Disagree that Rioli is a cream type player. He's a gun in any team in a position that's as important as ever. He still busted his arse in his final season with us despite us being the worst team in the comp and the fact he knew he was going to leave. Bolton on the other hand is absolutely a front running cream on top type and not someone you need when bottoming out.

Don't think we bent over Eagles for Baker. He's a very good player, it just made absolutely no sense for him or Eagles at the time. He should have gone to Fremantle.

Why would you be envious? Cats are challenging yet again.

 

[Grumpyshades]

I agree with you - we made the most of the situation. And we were in desperate need of a rebuild. So it came at the perfect time.

Out path was clear but once the players decided to go we maximised the opportunity to execute the plan.

It actually all started with trading soldo and accumulating 3rd rounders the year before to use to trade up in the draft.



Lots of emotion and strangely some east coast bitterness in your post.

Let’s rationalise it a bit.

Picked Harley- great decision. The challenge is to keep him. It’s obvious that $$$ isn’t the only way to do that, but that’s all he’s seen from West Coast. What’s their vision to him to get him to stay?

The Barass trade. Good move in theory even though it exposes what little tall defenders you have in the long term.

Hawks first rounder was rejected - that was Murphy Reid. Instead you took the Hawks future first and second (why the hell didn’t they choose the Carlton picks here is equally baffling) which will probably be a pick in the 20s and 40s in a shallow draft.

Downgraded from pick 3 to 12 and 14 and gave away the Murphy Reid pick for a 27 year old half back flanker.

On the flip signed waterman to a long term deal after a career year. And a broken down 31 year old mid for three more. You can’t get rid of them all though.

Picked up retreads in Owies and Graham for not much.

Actively pursued Warner but that seemed to fizzle out.

Play your best forward and captain in the backline and look to push him out for a draft pick.

Fans calling for the club to go cap in hand for draft assistance because they are so ass.

So what’s the plan?

Hit the top end of the draft or obtain more middling picks? Keep Harley or cash him out? Offload the captain or keep for experience and team balance? Trade in a star to build around or keep picks for the draft instead? Recruit retreads to drive standards and competitiveness or get more games into the kids?

From the outside it looks like a bit of everything.

yes its a bit of everything..Despite the narrative there is little evidence suggesting just drafting kids is the sole key to success

Murphy Reid lol. He is ok when the ball floats into his lap in the goal square. Good luck making a career out of it

 

[Rich01]

yes its a bit of everything..Despite the narrative there is little evidence suggesting just drafting kids is the sole key to success

Murphy Reid lol. He is ok when the ball floats into his lap in the goal square. Good luck making a career out of it

Seems less a strategy and more a tactical shotgun approach.

And Murphy goes alright.
Certainly better than the players you will pick in the 20s and 40s in this years draft with the Barass picks.

 

[Grrr]

Pushed out softer 'cream' type players in Rioli and Bolton. Kept the big body midfielders around to protect the young players and leadership. Bent over West Coast with the Baker trade.

I'm envious of the sensational work the Richmond team was able to do over the period

Cream types Bolton and Rioli, wow. Bolton may be flashy, but he was a consistently brilliant player at Richmond, and Rioli played his heart out across half back last year and won the B&F.

We got good picks back, but no need to denigrate players.

 

[Daka]

Richmonds rebuild has been driven by a mass exodus of premiership players which the club neither planned or instigated..There is absolutely nothing 'smart' about it

This is where I disagree, I actually think the players that left have helped us.
We only won 2 games with them last year and we have already won 2 games this year.

Dan Rioli credit to him he played his heart out till the very end. the others checked out over the course of the year.

 

[Grrr]

This is where I disagree, I actually think the players that left have helped us.
We only won 2 games with them last year and we have already won 2 games this year.

Dan Rioli credit to him he played his heart out till the very end. the others checked out over the course of the year.

Well most of our senior players were in the injury bin, but yes a few had checked out. No leadership at all last year.

 

[flyinghi64]

Richmond have some green shoots coming through but West Coast look absolutely barren.

Ginbey, Hough, Hewett, Hutch, Maric, J Williams, A Reid, Gross.......no green shoots?
Oh then there's Harley who get's tagged most weeks and has been since half way through his first season.
New coach bringing in completely new game plan and playing style but hey 8 weeks in let's just shut up shop eh?

We're not happy, supporters, and currently not in a great place but absolutely barren we are not.

 

[sydney_gws]

Ginbey, Hough, Hewett, Hutch, Maric, J Williams, A Reid, Gross.......no green shoots?
Oh then there's Harley who get's tagged most weeks and has been since half way through his first season.
New coach bringing in completely new game plan and playing style but hey 8 weeks in let's just shut up shop eh?

We're not happy, supporters, and currently not in a great place but absolutely barren we are not.

I think you deserve a priority pick for how the stupid academy/ father son process and free agency compo pushed your 2nd rounders back so far.
In general, I support priority picks ( but only a mid 2nd rounder) if a team wins 7 games or less over 2 years. That helps a team down the bottom, if they tank for it who cares, I wouldn't. Not the same as tanking for a top 5 pick.

 

[Warhorse]

Cream types Bolton and Rioli, wow. Bolton may be flashy, but he was a consistently brilliant player at Richmond, and Rioli played his heart out across half back last year and won the B&F.

We got good picks back, but no need to denigrate players.

You have missed the point of my post. Bolton/Rioli are great players but not exactly the big bodies needed to protect the kids.

 

[Warhorse]

Ginbey, Hough, Hewett, Hutch, Maric, J Williams, A Reid, Gross.......no green shoots?
Oh then there's Harley who get's tagged most weeks and has been since half way through his first season.
New coach bringing in completely new game plan and playing style but hey 8 weeks in let's just shut up shop eh?

We're not happy, supporters, and currently not in a great place but absolutely barren we are not.

Most of those players listed are crap and Reid is gone at the end of the year.

 

[Grumpyshades]

This is where I disagree, I actually think the players that left have helped us.
We only won 2 games with them last year and we have already won 2 games this year.

Dan Rioli credit to him he played his heart out till the very end. the others checked out over the course of the year.

I didn't say it hasn't helped the 'rebuild'

 

[Grrr]

You have missed the point of my post. Bolton/Rioli are great players but not exactly the big bodies needed to protect the kids.

We certainly didn't push them out, they wanted to go and we let them given what they have given the club, and in Bolton's case a young family a long way from home. We made the best of a bad situation, no club shops players of genuine quality who are still young to be around for a good many years.

 

[Obeanie1]

West Coasts future prospects are on par with old dog shit. Dried up. Their best mid and best forward (co captain) have already checked out and will walk at the end of the year nothing surer. Who can blame them. What does that leave = A pile of steaming dog shit.

No culture spoon side with no leadership. Their older players that made the side successful are well passed it. There is little to look forward to at the Eagles. To prolong the pain they employed Matt Clark as list manager ffs. Richmond has already gone past them.

Wow.

You feel better posting that?

Just like arseholes everyone has an opinion.

 

[Le RickyBobby]

The eagles 22 and younger group is far outperforming Richmond’s.

This is the biggest nuff on BF.

WC aren't out performing anyone in the AFL.

Whatever help you sleep at night bud. Just know WC are an absolute rabble.

 

[Mr.X]

Only way is up for both sides after what we saw today