Analysis The Richmond dynasty

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PCORF

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Since Essendon's great 2000 team. 17 of the last 20 premiership teams have been won by 6 different teams.

Hawthorn won 4 of 5
Brisbane won 3 of 4
Richmond won 3 of 3
Geelong won 3 of 5
West Coast 2 of 4
Sydney 2 of 5

Collingwood (1 of 4), Western Bulldogs, Port (1 of 2) snuck in a took one each.

Adelaide could have had a couple more if not for their stuff ups. Same with St Kilda but Adelaide certainly had more chances for sure.
 

Pessimistic

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FWIW Leigh Matthews said Richmond would beat the Hawthorn threepeat team.

Just need Dan26 to confirm that we're in the bottom 50 premiers again.
Leigh also admitted he stuffed up his voting for second place after Dusty. I guess that also underlines the ‘group of unknowns’ feel in this richmond three time premiership team
 

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TiggerMan22

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Daniel Rioli worst triple premiership player of all time? Done literally nothing for four season except play in 3 GFs.
We don't make the grand final in 2017 without Rioli. You forgot his prelim?
 

TiggerMan22

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Bullshiit mate

2020 will be remembered as the compromised season of limited training sessions, shortened 16 minute quarters, just 17 H&A rounds and many unlucky teams (but not Richmond) having to play games with 4 day breaks vs teams with over a week's rest.

The reigning premiers were actually favoured by the various challenges when you consider they had all the pieces & a premiership gameplan already in place. Especially compared to many of their struggling rivals who weren't able to bridge the gap due to the restrictions on what they could do.

Richmond was extremely blessed they were able to spend the last 4 months in their sunny Queensland hub with their families while other clubs had to endure the upheaval of 3-4 week hubs in Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth.



The Tigers received the easiest draw of all Victorian teams.



Home/Away
  • 5 games in Melb before the travel restrictions (4 at MCG, 1 at Marvel.) Fortunate not to have any interstate games in that block.
  • Disadvantaged by only 3 away games after that (vs Giants, Crows, Port)
  • 2 travel games on neutral turf (vs Swans at Gabba, vs Ess in Darwin)
  • The rest of your games were played at your "home away from home" on the Gold Coast (inc. matches vs WCE and Freo)
The home advantage which the non-Victorian teams enjoyed actually elevated Port Adelaide and Brisbane into 1st and 2nd place. Both of these teams could be considered flag pretenders in 2020, particularly the Lions with many inexperienced players and maybe a season away from mounting a serious challenge to Richmond or Geelong in September

Apologies to any Port and Lions fans reading this, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but this was the weakest top 2 in AFL history.



Days Break

32 games this season where one team had 2 or more days' extra rest than its opponent on a short week (i.e. backing up off a 4 or 5 day break)
In a whopping 26 of these 32 matches, the more rested team won.


This was a seriously compromised aspect of the condensed revised fixture. Some games were quite farcical.

Richmond enjoyed 5 games with this advantage (the most) and had ZERO games with this disadvantage (the fewest)

Games advantaged:
5 Rich
4 St K
3 Coll, WB
2 Bris, Port, Melb, Carl, Ess, Adel, GC
1 Geel, WCE
0 Haw, GWS

Games disadvantaged:
4 Haw, GWS, Adel
3 Coll, NM, Freo, GC
2 Geel, Bris, Ess
1 St K, WCE
0 Rich, WB, Port, Syd, Melb, Carl


I'm not saying there was an AFL/Channel 7 conspiracy to make things easier for Richmond. But if you analyse the fixtures each club was given, the AFL could not have made things any easier for your side compared to other Vic teams.


Congratulations Richmond fans on your club winning the premiership. (Seriously, well done.) Some would say it was an asterisk flag in a compromised season. I don't care about all that rubbish. People on here will put an asterisk against virtually any flag. Who cares? It doesn't matter. They all count.

But please cut the crap about Richmond "doing it tough" this season. Some clubs actually did it tough, but Richmond wasn't one of those.



edit: I'm not even buying into the argument about which dynasty is the best. I don't really care about that crap either. Who cares? Winning the flag is the only thing which counts. With 3 flags in 4 years, the Tigers can be deservedly described as a dynasty alongside the great teams of the past.
How may games did we play at the G again?
 

Ron The Bear

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Leigh also admitted he stuffed up his voting for second place after Dusty. I guess that also underlines the ‘group of unknowns’ feel in this richmond three time premiership team
They've had plenty of time to get to know our players.

Brisbane 2001-03 28 premiership players
Geelong 2007-11 31
Hawthorn 2013-15 29
Richmond 2017-20 29
 

Scotland

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3peat > non 3peat.

For now, Richmond sit with Geelong behind Brisbane and Hawthorn.

If they win in 2021, the argument to be #1 is very strong. I still think Brisbane are the best team I've seen, but they didn't win 4 flags in 5 years.
 

Underarm

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The point is fairly self-evident

This season was 20% less gruelling than previous seasons.

Games were 20% shorter and the season was 20% shorter

Fact.

Take it to it's logical extreme. If we held a lightning premiership between 18 clubs over 2 weekends with 5 minute halves, it would technically be just as probable or improbable to win the flag against 17 other teams, but you wouldn't say it was "tougher to win" than a marathon season played over six months.
The fact that qtrs were 20% shorter helped Geelong's geriatrics and hurt Richmond.
 

SSSSSS

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Six decades of domination
B. C.Johnson Lake Scarlett
HB. Enright Leppa Hodge
C. Selwood Voss Lappin
HF. S.Johnson Franklin Martin
F. C.Rioli Lynch Aker

Followers: Otten Black GAJ

I/C: Mitchell Bartel Cotchin Burgoyne

6 from Brisbane
6 from Hawthorn
7 from Geelong
2 from Richmond

Not much thought behind this so will probably refine it. Rance would be a lock had he played in more than 1.
Geelong team was stacked with top end talent. Richmond a sum of their parts and the definiti1o2qn
 

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jc12

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I only have Geelong ahead of Richmond because of the quality of opposition they beat. That Saints/Collingwood team were something else.

Can only beat who is against you though so props to the Tiges. Think we will have to review this in a few years time. I believe this Richmond side probably has another 2 years of peak performance left in them.
Respect your opinion 100% but for me this Richmond side is by far the GOAT of all time in vfl/afl history. In terms of actual team.

Talent wise individually you'd say it's that cats or lions side.
 

jc12

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Just remember guys we are talking about team, not who has the most stacked individually talanted players in each team.

Players like georgey and broad etc would not be seen as good as some of those other players by themselves but in our team they play such a important role of why we are the best

So whilst teams like lions 01-03 have the better stacked list our ability to gel, understand and work together as a team and be mentally strong to lift when needed or dig in is far better than any of those sides.

The hub flag proved it.
 

MinerBoy

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The Hawks and Cats reign was created due to the expansion sides compromising drafts. Still great achievements but devalued compared to the achievements of the Lions and Tigers.

Well done all four clubs.
Think the entire compromised draft thing to devalue is crap anyway but if there's anything to it then the results of those drafts are actually more pronounced now than when they occurred.
 

This Is Anfield

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Don't care. We're fu**en good, that's enough.
Exactly, don’t give a flying **** where oppo supporters rate us... just happy to enjoy the success that I never thought I’d experience again.
Just as the Brisbane, Geelong and Hawthorn supporters enjoyed their success.
 

SA HAWK

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I just don't think that much of Richmond. I don't think they are that good, at least not compared to the Lions, Geelong and Hawthorn's three premiership teams. I would go

1. Geelong
2. Brisbane
3. Hawthorn
4. Richmond
I would say Richmond have a weaker list than the other 3 but have a better system.
 

CarnTheScray

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Possibly true to an extent. All two of your grand final opponents have shat the bed one way or another, Geelongs best player went missing in the second half and props to Dusty for tearing them a new one. Not to downplay Richmond's efforts of course. Respect to them for nabbing flags when the chance was there. That's how premierships are won: moments in time.
 

VicBased

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Congrats Richmond! Last night you demonstrated your ability to show the rest of the comp as to what is needed to compete next year. Great footy team and i hope you supporters show your class by not giving it to other teams supporters. You are now a class above the rest.
 

MinerBoy

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A lot of nuances in ranking dynasties. How much weight you put on flags versus h&a dominance is a big factor. How much do you weigh up backing up again the next year? Do you look at the strength of the opposition? Do you look at the players on the team versus how the team played as a unit? Does AFL support discount flag wins?

Geelong are pretty clearly the most dominant in terms of raw wins over their 2007-2011 period. Coin toss between them and Brisbane on most talented. Geelong are probably the biggest under achievers though in terms of how many flags they extracted compared to their H&A dominance. Should have won in 08 and that would have them clear leaders out of the Brisbane, Geelong, Hawthorn , Richmond group. But they didn't, so never went back to back. Doesn't get to play the GF at their home ground, and won one against an MCG tenant.

Brisbane also had an amazing team. Had some cap concessions their competition were no benefiting from - Fitting in 3 brownlow medalists in the one team was handy. Not as dominant as Geelong H&A - never finished top in any of their flag years. 3 peat to compensate for their lower H&A performance though. Question on how strong an opponent Collingwood were at that time. Had to play all their GF wins away from home.

Hawthorn generally seen as less talented than both Geelong and Brisbane. Seen more as a great team than a great set of players. Amazing forward line, but lacked Geelong's defense, and probably edged out in the midfield by both Geelong and Brisbane who had amazing midfield units. 3 peat, but only finished top once during it. 5 prelims and 4 flag appearances in a row was impressive. Some scares in close finals though undermines their overall finals dominance during that period. Question marks on how strong their opposition was. Freo seen as a weaker opponent, but unlike Adelaide and GWS in Richmond's wins, was still up and about for a few years, and finished minor premier two years later in 2015. Went in underdogs against what was seen at the time as a very strong Sydney, and smashed them. Borderline underdogs against Eagles in some people's minds, and smashed them too. Freo, Sydney and WC all made finals the year after we played them, all but Freo had won flags themselves shortly before or shortly after we played them. 3 flags all at their home ground against interstate sides. Only Freo should have been at the MCG. Sydney should have been at the SCG and Shouldn't have been playing at the MCG against WC either, and had lost to WC in Perth earlier in the finals series (although had beaten Eagles over there not long before that, and beat Freo in the prelim in Perth). Never had to play a GF against a team playing at home. Had 1 other flag outisde the 3-peat but 4 years with flags between 2008 and 2013, and missing finals completely in 2009.

Richmond probably seen as the least talented of the 4 overall, but with an insanely hard to break down game plan, and an amazing drive to win. Most cohesive team unit of the 4. Very well coached, and sporting one of the best finals players of all time in Martin. Cotchin also overcame his poor finals performances from his earlier years to be a very effective contributor. Rance left, and Jack took a back seat with Lynch's introduction, and they still win, showing they were not just being carried by their 4 guns, and that the rest of the list had probably been underrated. 3 wins in 4 years is better than Geelong's 3 in 5, but don't have the pure win dominance Geelong had over their period. Question marks on the quality of their opposition. Adelaide had a dominant year, but fell away massively, and haven't even played in another GF this century. GWS the same. Could argue Richmond 'broke' them such was the magnitude of the losses. Played 2 of the 3 flags at their home ground. Should have played Adelaide in SA. Massively difficult season in 2020 due to covid draw. 0 outright home ground games for the year, and GF played away from home, although on neutral territory against another Vic side, but would likely have finished top 2 with a non-covid draw, and had to go the hard way after losing to Brisbane at the GABBA. Showed it isn't all about the MCG for them (or playing everything in Vic), with a gutsy prelim win over Port to make the GF. Unlike Brisbane and Geelong (and like Hawthorn) have never had to play a GF against an opponent playing at home.

In the end, ranking these 4 is about personal preference, and how you weight the various factors. Obviously hard to do impartially when your clubs is one of the 4. Currently I'd go:
1. Brisbane (3-peat, awesome team, won every flag at someone else's home ground)
2. Hawthorn (3-peat, made 4 GF in a row, and had the extra flag in 2008).
3. Richmond (back-to-back giving them the edge over Geelong, but it is still close with Geelong having a great team and great h&A records)
4. Geelong (only one not able to back up year to year, unlucky to be last but the reality is they underperformed with the list they had, would be #1 if they beat Hawks in 2008).

Richmond is still going, they win next year, and they are #1, no matter what you think of their raw list talent. Teams win flags and 4 flags in 5 years is a record that can't be argued with.

Envious of both Richmond and Geelong fans right now. I miss my team being relevant in finals.
Think Hawks finished top twice 12-13. Only once in a flag year but twice during the GF appearances?
 

Big Blood

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If anyone was going to win it in the plague year it had to be Richmond.

The unforgettable years of the Richmond dynasty - Trump, trade war, rising fascism, bushfire cataclysm, pandemic.
 

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