Any you'll have to hold off for an whole nother week....again
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Play Nice The Collingwood v Richmond thread
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Any you'll have to hold off for an whole nother week....again
- Aug 26, 2016
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- Collingwood
Yep, and Cotchin can dress up as the disappearing man again.
- Aug 26, 2016
- 12,136
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- Collingwood
Bigger than Texas.
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- #179
this is bay 13 quality material chaps. Enough.
StevenwellerHFC
Brownlow Medallist
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- #180
Does it feel good?
The whole thread, whilst a troll is obviously ridiculous.
Richmond are 4th in support in Victoria, and Hawthorn has gone close to catching them over recent years. Hawthorn are virtually equal 4th now.
One of the reasons Richmonds crowds have spiked is because their supporters have been deprived of a quality team for the best part of three decades so a "greater percentage" of their 4th-ranked supporter base is turning up to games compared to other clubs.
It reminds me of when Sydney FINALLY started having some success in 1996 after years of nothing and they had some fantastic crowds at the SCG of 40,000. And yet that same Swans club would routinely get 20,000's to the SCG in more recent times. This was because the 1996 side gave the supporters their first chance in about a decade to watch a good team, so a greater percentage of the supporter base turned out than they did in, say, 2007 even though in 2007 they had a decade of success.
The best gauge for crowd support in Victoria is the Supercoach club supporter number. Roy Morgan surveys usually cover 3-5,000 people but Supercoach is a defacto survey of 300,000 footy fans. It's as accurate as you can get - the sample is is enormous.
SUPERCOACH CLUB SUPPORTER NUMBERS (just counting the 10 Victorian clubs)
Collingwood 23,257.........16.33% of Victorians support Collingwood
Essendon 22,866............16.05% of Victorian support Essendon
Carlton 17,497...............12.28% of Victorians support Carlton
Richmond 15,824...........11.11% of Victorians support Richmond
Hawthorn 15,787............11.08% of Victorians support Hawthorn
Geelong 13,836..............9.72% of Victorians support Geelong
St.Kilda 9,595................6.74% of Victorians support St.Kilda
Nth.Melb 8,699..............6.11% of Victorians support North
W.Bulldogs 7,914...........5.56% of Victorians support the Bulldogs
Melbourne 7,121............5.00% of Victorians support Melbourne
It's Collingwood/Essendon then daylight
Richmond are 4th in support in Victoria, and Hawthorn has gone close to catching them over recent years. Hawthorn are virtually equal 4th now.
One of the reasons Richmonds crowds have spiked is because their supporters have been deprived of a quality team for the best part of three decades so a "greater percentage" of their 4th-ranked supporter base is turning up to games compared to other clubs.
It reminds me of when Sydney FINALLY started having some success in 1996 after years of nothing and they had some fantastic crowds at the SCG of 40,000. And yet that same Swans club would routinely get 20,000's to the SCG in more recent times. This was because the 1996 side gave the supporters their first chance in about a decade to watch a good team, so a greater percentage of the supporter base turned out than they did in, say, 2007 even though in 2007 they had a decade of success.
The best gauge for crowd support in Victoria is the Supercoach club supporter number. Roy Morgan surveys usually cover 3-5,000 people but Supercoach is a defacto survey of 300,000 footy fans. It's as accurate as you can get - the sample is is enormous.
SUPERCOACH CLUB SUPPORTER NUMBERS (just counting the 10 Victorian clubs)
Collingwood 23,257.........16.33% of Victorians support Collingwood
Essendon 22,866............16.05% of Victorian support Essendon
Carlton 17,497...............12.28% of Victorians support Carlton
Richmond 15,824...........11.11% of Victorians support Richmond
Hawthorn 15,787............11.08% of Victorians support Hawthorn
Geelong 13,836..............9.72% of Victorians support Geelong
St.Kilda 9,595................6.74% of Victorians support St.Kilda
Nth.Melb 8,699..............6.11% of Victorians support North
W.Bulldogs 7,914...........5.56% of Victorians support the Bulldogs
Melbourne 7,121............5.00% of Victorians support Melbourne
It's Collingwood/Essendon then daylight
threenewpadlocks
Brownlow Medallist
Agreed with the principle that SuperCoach numbers can be helpful but there's obviously some skew toward who plays SuperCoach to who doesn't. Hawthorn's supporter base, for example, is likely to be larger in SC then real life becuase SC players are younger than the general population. My guess is that there are more 34 year olds are Hawthorn supporters than 67 year olds, given the Hawks success in the 80's, but the 34 year old is a lot more likely to play SuperCoach than the 67 year old.
Still, I take your point, and it's still a very good metric.
- Thread starter
- #183
This is a terrible dumb argument.
You can "support" whoever you want , but what is the level of engagment?
The most important level of engagement and the most intense is to actually turn up to games.
Playing supercoach in your underwear in your bedroom is not generating any money for your club.
The only measure that matters is bums on seats, and on this measure Richmond is the biggest club in the land in 2017, just like it was in 2015.
These are facts, and facebook likes, twitter mentions, or supercoach points, and even fake memberships paid by corporates are not going to change these facts.
Not sure why there is even a debate on this. It is a clear fact.
It's not a dumb argument at all. The Supercoach numbers represent 300,000 football fans and as the numbers show, they exactly represent the true percentages of support of the Victorian clubs. Coll, Ess, Carl, Rich in that order.
Anyone who even remotely understands football knows that the big three have always been Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton.
Around the early 2000,'s Essendon had overtaken Collingwood for support according to an annual Roy Morgan surveys at the time, but Collingwood, due to winning a premiership since then have gone back ahead. Just. But there's not much in it.
Essendon have played in front of the biggest crowds this year as I type this. About 22,000 ahead of the next most watched club. You've just shot your argument in the foot.
I never said it was. It's an indication of who has the most supporters. Not surprisingly it's Collingwood/Essendon neck-and-neck for first spot as it is every year.
By your own measure then, Essendon are the biggest club in the land. They have played in front of more people than any other club in 2017.
It's worth noting that Essendon is 4 spots lower on the ladder than Richmond and plays 4 fewer MCG games and STILL leads the attendances.
It sure is. Essendon have had 22,000 more fans watch them from their 21 games than the second most watched club.
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Here are the last 12 completed seasons for Essendon and Richmond. I'm helping out Richmond here by starting this 12 year sequence in 2005, when Essendon started to perform poorly. Essendon made the finals 7 years in a row from 1998-2004, and if include those years it's a whitewash, so I'm going to start the sequence when Essendon started to perform poorly to help out the little Tigers
In the last 12 years, Richmond has won more games of football, and played a lot more MCG games, but as you can see, Essendon outdraw Richmond almost every year, even with the handicap of Essendon being a worse side than Richmond over those 12 years
ESSENDON
YEAR: W/L............total 22 game attendance
2005: 8-14.............979,102
2006: 3-1-18..........935,522
2007: 10-12...........1,088,652
2008: 8-14.............1,044,123
2009: 10-1-11.........1,089,224
2010: 7-15..............1,009,837
2011: 11-1-10..........1,093,206
2012: 11-11...............994,993
2013: 14-8................1,036,044
2014: 12-1-9.............977,970
2015: 6-16................894,335
2016: 3-19................802,059
Winning percentage: 39.77%....... av. attendance per game: 45,246
RICHMOND
YEAR: W/L............total 22 game attendance
2005: 10-12................802,885
2006: 11-11................855,556
2007: 3-1-18...............909,203
2008: 11-1-10..............934,002
2009: 5-1-16................868,855
2010: 6-16...................834,590
2011: 8-1-13................895,290
2012: 10-1-11..............871,504
2013: 15-7.................1,040290
2014: 12-10.................839,772
2015: 15-7..................1,054,354
2016: 8-14.................900,237
Winning percentage: 44.13%......... av attendance per game: 40,933
What it tells you is:
*Essendon generally get bigger crowds than Richmond when both clubs are winning.
*Essendon generally get bigger crowds than Richmond when both clubs are losing.
You probably think I am trolling you. I'm not. I'm just pointing out the facts.
Essendon have a higher crowd average than Richmond having won fewer games than the Tigers over the last 12 years, with about two dozen less MCG games over that time.
Richmond are about equal-4th in Victoria with Hawthorn for support.
Collingwood and Essendon stand in a league of their own.
In the last 12 years, Richmond has won more games of football, and played a lot more MCG games, but as you can see, Essendon outdraw Richmond almost every year, even with the handicap of Essendon being a worse side than Richmond over those 12 years
ESSENDON
YEAR: W/L............total 22 game attendance
2005: 8-14.............979,102
2006: 3-1-18..........935,522
2007: 10-12...........1,088,652
2008: 8-14.............1,044,123
2009: 10-1-11.........1,089,224
2010: 7-15..............1,009,837
2011: 11-1-10..........1,093,206
2012: 11-11...............994,993
2013: 14-8................1,036,044
2014: 12-1-9.............977,970
2015: 6-16................894,335
2016: 3-19................802,059
Winning percentage: 39.77%....... av. attendance per game: 45,246
RICHMOND
YEAR: W/L............total 22 game attendance
2005: 10-12................802,885
2006: 11-11................855,556
2007: 3-1-18...............909,203
2008: 11-1-10..............934,002
2009: 5-1-16................868,855
2010: 6-16...................834,590
2011: 8-1-13................895,290
2012: 10-1-11..............871,504
2013: 15-7.................1,040290
2014: 12-10.................839,772
2015: 15-7..................1,054,354
2016: 8-14.................900,237
Winning percentage: 44.13%......... av attendance per game: 40,933
What it tells you is:
*Essendon generally get bigger crowds than Richmond when both clubs are winning.
*Essendon generally get bigger crowds than Richmond when both clubs are losing.
You probably think I am trolling you. I'm not. I'm just pointing out the facts.
Essendon have a higher crowd average than Richmond having won fewer games than the Tigers over the last 12 years, with about two dozen less MCG games over that time.
Richmond are about equal-4th in Victoria with Hawthorn for support.
Collingwood and Essendon stand in a league of their own.
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- Dec 18, 2005
- 21,659
- 14,391
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Other Teams
- Richmond
We need to win minimum one final this year and to be around the top 4 next year to take our crowds to the next step. Somewhere around 1,150,000 would be the target then. This means no games in Geelong or Tasmania please. Consistently finishing around top 4 and building new rivalries is the way to earn holiday and night games and reaching 1,250,000 in a season in 2-3 years from now. But if we drop down the ladder it won't happen. With the giants and suns in the afl now it would be hard for any club to get a bigger aggregate.
- Dec 18, 2005
- 21,659
- 14,391
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Other Teams
- Richmond
We had have more bottom 4 finishes than bombers over the last decade. Bombers made finals the same amount of times as us although they were denied 1 of them in the last week of 2013. But the supporters didn't know that was going to happen so crowds weren't effected that year. So you should be winning the aggregate over the last decade. Bomber were pretty good before 2005. So crowds were still solid in 2005 and 2006.
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You idiotic argument is that because Essendon was good from 1998-2004, then that explains why the crowds were so good in 2005-2006. What?
Essendon won the first game of 2006, then lost FOURTEEN in a row. Are you telling me that people were turning up in round 17 2006 to watch this "bottom of the ladder basketcase" (which we were) only because we made the finals in 2004???? Serious question, are you stupid? Bearing in mind we won only 8 games the season before that, in 2005, too.
People were turning up to watch dead rubbers from a bottom team in 2006 because we have a huge following and draw crowds no matter what.
Richmond are 4th in support in Victoria
Most surveys show Hawthorn has caught Richmond, so Richmond might actually be 5th. At best you are equal 4th.
Hawthorn has now won 13 premierships and has had generations of success whilst Richmond has lost a generations worth of supporters.
There is no comparison between Richmond and Collingwood/Essendon..... none
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smasha
It's Time!
A big finals campaign will put paid to that.
No it won't.
It might temporarily up the enthusiasm, but it doesn't actually increase the amount of people who support your club in the short term. It will help in 20 years time, when the six year olds who choose to support a succesful team become old enough to go to games. But in the short term it won't make a jack of difference to the amount of people who support Richmond.
Richmond are 4th, maybe 5th for support. Equal 4th at best. That's not my opinion - that's what the facts show.
smasha
It's Time!
Richmond have never been the cool side,the hipster side.
Media always love to put the boot in and make our image look bad.
I think it comes to how many premierships the other big clubs have won,hipsters or down hill skiers can talk down to there Tiger mates if they jump on one of those teams.
That is why they have the bigger supporter bases.
Collingwood had two goes at winning those fourpeat flags,I reckon that formed the basis of their large supporter base,the four premierships.
We are not cool or hipster enough.
We have a pretty awesome supporter base now,despite being the worst performed club of the last thirty seven years.
We may get a few velvet elbow , glory riders ,Hawk,Pies,Bombers fans jump on when we start winning flags and then we can talk down on our mates,at long last!
Media always love to put the boot in and make our image look bad.
I think it comes to how many premierships the other big clubs have won,hipsters or down hill skiers can talk down to there Tiger mates if they jump on one of those teams.
That is why they have the bigger supporter bases.
Collingwood had two goes at winning those fourpeat flags,I reckon that formed the basis of their large supporter base,the four premierships.
We are not cool or hipster enough.
We have a pretty awesome supporter base now,despite being the worst performed club of the last thirty seven years.
We may get a few velvet elbow , glory riders ,Hawk,Pies,Bombers fans jump on when we start winning flags and then we can talk down on our mates,at long last!
smasha
It's Time!
You can definately smell the fear of a Richmond flag.
smasha
It's Time!
Premierships mean everything,have a look at the Hawks.
They were a small club,flags have made them into a bigger club.
A Richmond flag would do wonders,that's why there is a fear of Richmond just winning ONE premiership.
smasha
It's Time!
Have lots of respect for Saints fans,one flag and a tremendous supporter base.
It's easy when you're winning,everyone can jump on to a team with the most flags.
I'm not greedy,I just want to enjoy one flag with my Tiger mates,then the rest of you Verucas can win em all.
Richmond would have won one when Lockett was all but signed up but the AFL did a Kim Jong-Un with us,came in and ripped him out of the club and planted him in Sydney.
It's easy when you're winning,everyone can jump on to a team with the most flags.
I'm not greedy,I just want to enjoy one flag with my Tiger mates,then the rest of you Verucas can win em all.
Richmond would have won one when Lockett was all but signed up but the AFL did a Kim Jong-Un with us,came in and ripped him out of the club and planted him in Sydney.
- Dec 18, 2005
- 21,659
- 14,391
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Other Teams
- Richmond
Righteo lol
Now it what matters.
As we have seen Richmond 2017 are a slightly bigger draw at the gate than Essendon.
Collingwood? Who are they?
As we have seen Richmond 2017 are a slightly bigger draw at the gate than Essendon.
Collingwood? Who are they?
All you salty bastards better get used to hearing how Richmond is the biggest club in land. You don't hear the media banging on about Essendon being a big club. We're all over the media right now.
This thread is only a bit of fun and everyone knows that both Collingwood and Essendon have more fans than Richmond but that is not the point about Richmond. The point is that Richmond brings a unique emotional edge. The Tiger Army narrative is not about how many turn up its about the emotion and engagement they bring with them.
A finals series with the Tigers brings a sense of occasion and expectation that is in all honesty probably unequalled. The heights are that bit higher and that bit more loudly welcomed. The depths are that bit deeper and more loudly moaned about.
Richmond are the AFL's passion play. It's soap opera.
A finals series with the Tigers brings a sense of occasion and expectation that is in all honesty probably unequalled. The heights are that bit higher and that bit more loudly welcomed. The depths are that bit deeper and more loudly moaned about.
Richmond are the AFL's passion play. It's soap opera.
- Dec 18, 2005
- 21,659
- 14,391
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Other Teams
- Richmond
To fully awake the giant we need to win some finals. Going all the way would do it as long as we don't drop down the ladder next year
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