The Robodebt Royal Commission

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Golden_6

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On social media a couple of people are saying they got less than 1 dollar back in the settlement.
There’s no real compensation settlement, it’s basically just interest on payments made. I got around $100 back.

If people got less than a dollar, then it means the amount they were required to pay was extraordinarily low or they weren’t without it for long at all.
 

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Stumpy Pete

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Some good live tweeting on this. I find it interesting that no one has mentioned that the massive expansion of the income-smoothing approach was a 2016 election commitment by the then Turnbull-led Liberals.

RC evidence thus far suggests some concerns in DSS but DHS were gung-ho. This is not surprising given the massive increase in resourcing that DHS were getting under the scheme.

I’m looking forward to Kathryn Campbell giving evidence.

Regards

S. Pete
 

swingdog

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This RC is must-watch viewing if you want to see good lawyers tear apart the arguments of weak people. Public servants with their hedging language and politicians with their outright lies are finding there are consequences when you're put on the stand and forced to tell the truth.

Love this exchange with Kathryn Campbell: "Are you claiming ignorance of the law (she jumps in "No!"), when you set up the unlawful system (she realises the puddle of s**t she's just walked into)"

 
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I had to "pay back" around 3.5k for a period in which my total payments from Centrelink were $0. I told them I was going to appeal, and was told that makes no difference and that I had two weeks to pay. I had been working for a couple of years at that point, and they could see my bank balance - which I'm not sure was legal, because it was probably an outsourcer who made the call.

From memory the previous government acknowledged that close to 20% of "debts" raised were in error. Those who raised that 20% figure claimed they were the false ones, which might not include the over-stated ones.
I got a call at work one day from "Centrelink" - they'd called my work and asked to speak to me and were put through. The guy on the phone then started saying I owed thousands of dollars due to incorrect Centrelink payments. I had no idea what he was talking about, the only Centrelink I'd claimed in the last 15 years was parental payments when my kids were born. After some back and forth it became apparent it wasn't me he was after but another person with the same first name who had left the organisation before I'd even started working there.

Some real super sleuths they had working on this thing....
 
The RC should take the same approach the government debt and tell them they have to prove their innocence. Otherwise their guilt is assumed 🤔

I'm actually ok with this for sitting and former politicians.
 
This RC is must-watch viewing if you want to see good lawyers tear apart the arguments of weak people. Public servants with their hedging language and politicians with their outright lies are finding there are consequences when you're put on the stand and forced to tell the truth.

Love this exchange with Kathryn Campbell: "Are you claiming ignorance of the law (she jumps in "No!"), when you set up the unlawful system (she realises the puddle of s**t she's just walked into)"


She is as close to a reptile as you'll ever get.
 

Festerz

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Robodebt was nn illegal automated algorithm that allowed politicians and the bureaucrats who reported to them to ignore the human consequences of the flawed ideological obsession to catch 'welfare cheats'.

Rhys James was not a robot, just a young man suffering from depression who broke free from welfare dependence to work for a florist and attend university, yet then he received seven robo-demands in seven weeks in 2016 for a fictitious debt of $17,319.58. He died by suicide three weeks after the last letter.

Jarrad Madgwick was also a human. An “Automated Compliance” process cut off his Newstart allowance until he repaid a fictitious debt of $2000. He took his own life just before he was due for a job interview with the army.

If only Rhys and Jarrad and more than 2000 other people who died while being chased by robo-debt demands were themselves robo-recipients, the system would have worked perfectly.



EnAWuvlWEAISgMQ.jpg


 

Festerz

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Former Social Security Minister Marise 'I can't Recall' Payne was treated pretty kindly by the Council Assisting at the Robodebt Royal Commission today.

Scotty due to front up tomorrow.


I expect he will also resort to his deft obfuscation and blame shifting skills.

Print this and play along at home:

Fj1BkWXUYAAzFI1
 
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Festerz

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The bleating about “unelected officials” when the Libs were trying to discredit the NSW ICAC was telling.
Not hearing much about that now that more “unelected officials” are the only ones sticking up for them now that they’re in a RC

Speaking of 'unelected officials' today we had the one shining light in this disgraceful dishonest mess.

Retired former Centrelink mid level public servant Colleen Taylor giving evidence before the Robodebt Royal Commission. caring and diligent in her respect for the people who need help from centrelink. The person who dared to speak truth to power that what they were doing was WRONG - legally and morally. She was ignored and victimised for being too sympathetic to welfare recipients.

Colleen told the Royal Commission today she retired broken and disillusioned after her warnings were dismissed.

More courage and integrity that Morrison, Payne, Tehan and Porter put together.

 
For f***'s sake.
 

Festerz

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The politicisation of the executive levels of the Australian public service at all tiers of government has long been identified as a cancer that is eroding the professionalism, independence and integrity of our government.

The RoboDebt Royal Commission hearings over the past 2 weeks has put on full display the extent to which the Australian public, especially those who are most vulnerable in our society, has been betrayed by that cancer by highly paid senior executives ignoring their moral and legislative responsibilities to the people they are meant to serve.

Ms Serena Wilson is a former Deputy Secretary in the Department of Social Services and prior to that in the Department of Families, Housing, Community Services. She reported directly to Scott Morrison during his time as Minister responsible for the implementation of the illegal RoboDebt scheme - that destroyed and damaged thousands of lives and families.

Take the time to look at how the Justin Greggery KC forces Ms Wilson to face up to her decisions that made this possible...(and a strong recommendation for those interested in getting a sense of what is happening in this RC to follow the twitter posts of https://twitter.com/strangerous10)




 
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The politicisation of the executive levels of the Australian public service at all tiers of government has long been identified as a cancer that is eroding the professionalism, independence and integrity of our government.

The RoboDebt Royal Commission hearings over the past 2 weeks has put on full display the extent to which the Australian public, especially those who are most vulnerable in our society, has been betrayed by that cancer by highly paid senior executives ignoring their moral and legislative responsibilities to the people they are meant to serve.

Ms Serena Wilson is a former Deputy Secretary in the Department of Social Services and prior to that in the Department of Families, Housing, Community Services. She reported directly to Scott Morrison during his time as Minister responsible for the implementation of the illegal RoboDebt scheme - that destroyed and damaged thousands of lives and families.

Take the time to look at how the Justin Greggery KC forces Ms Wilson to face up to her decisions that made this possible...(and a strong recommendation for those interested in getting a sense of what is happening in this RC to follow the twitter posts of https://twitter.com/strangerous10)





What the * is this? Morrison and the Liberals are disgusting human beings.

1671269594969.png
 

Festerz

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What the * is this? Morrison and the Liberals are disgusting human beings.

IMHO the most important message from this Royal Commission (like other inquiries before it) is that power hungry egoist politicians like Morrison could not have acted illegally without the enablement of a few senior public servants who chose to ignore their duty of care and responsibility to the public..

I understand and agree with the need to target, shame and punish Morrison and his political cronies for breaching their duty of responsibility to our system of government.

BUT there WILL be other narcissist egomaniacs to take his and their place in the future. That is the nature of politics and those who seek to use it for their own ends.

Time to focus our anger and punishment on the senior executives in the public service who turned a blind eye on what was happening and/or even worse, actively encouraged it with their silence and mistruths. Harsh financial penalties and gaol time for breaches of the PS code of conduct is the only way of achieving this.

Only then can we be sure that our most senior public servants understand the value set that is at the heart of their profession - that their primary responsibility is to us, the public and the laws and regulations they are meant to uphold. And that the words - 'fearless and frank advice' actually mean something in terms of protecting our democracy.
 
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IMHO the most important message from this Royal Commission (like other inquiries before it) is that power hungry egoist politicians like Morrison could not have acted illegally without the enablement of a few senior public servants who chose to ignore their duty of care and responsibility to the public..

I understand and agree with the need to target, shame and punish Morrison and his political cronies for breaching their duty of responsibility to our system of government.

BUT there WILL be other narcissist egomaniacs to take his and their place in the future. That is the nature of politics and those who seek to use it for their own ends.

Time to focus our anger and punishment on the senior executives in the public service who turned a blind eye on what was happening and/or even worse, actively encouraged it with their silence and mistruths. Harsh financial penalties and gaol time for breaches of the PS code of conduct is the only way of achieving this.

Only then can we be sure that our most senior public servants understand the value set that is at the heart of their profession - that their primary responsibility is to us, the public and the laws and regulations they are meant to uphold. And that the words - 'fearless and frank advice' actually mean something in terms of protecting our democracy.
The public service was bullied into this by Morrison though. That has to be acknowledged.

Morrison had the option to make legislative change and he didn’t. He chose to bypass that. He chose to bypass democracy. Again. Yes, the public service failed massively in allowing him to do that.

But it must be established, acknowledged and recorded that Morrison and the Liberal party KNOWINGLY broke the law because they decided to bypass democratic process. Morrison demanded the public service do this - even if he did cover his tracks.

Yes the public service was weak, but consecutive Liberal governments have been hell bent on destroying the “unelected” public service for a long time and installing their own patsies left and right.

The Liberal party and their endless “small government” agenda are responsible for all of this.
 

Festerz

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The public service was bullied into this by Morrison though. That has to be acknowledged.
Yep. But Morrison has gone.

What matters is his legacy and, in particular, his style of autocracy. So looking forward how do we stop Morrison MkII from appearing, in any party, in the future (bearing in mind that Mark Latham was a potential Labor PM- this is a matter of principle rather than one side of politics v the other)?

Our Constitution is built around conventions more so than explicit directions of how to govern. For example no reference is made to the Prime Minister nor the Cabinet in our founding documents.

The checks and balances that maintain our system of government rest more in 'unelected officials' than most people realise.

A bit more respect for those public officials and a bit more resources focussed on their role and responsibilities might go a long way is all I'm saying ;)
 

Saint

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The crux of the commission is that they've proven the Senior Public Servants all knew it was illegal. That people were harmed is clear. That it cost lots of money is also clear.

But there's not yet been definitive proof that the Ministers knew it was illegal, because it seems they (off-the-record) pressured the public servants to exclude that specific advice from Ministerial Briefings and everyone knew not to ask about it. So Morrison and Payne can hold up a few pieces of paper and say "See this one, the final one, didn't say it was illegal".

Then the KC says "What about those other papers that said it was that you saw"
"You can't prove I saw that, and it's not the Ministerial Briefing, so it doesn't matter, I guess I assumed they'd fixed it"
"But you did see it, it's addressed to you"
Payne, Morrison et al (Go to 55 secs):
 
Feb 21, 2006
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The crux of the commission is that they've proven the Senior Public Servants all knew it was illegal. That people were harmed is clear. That it cost lots of money is also clear.

But there's not yet been definitive proof that the Ministers knew it was illegal, because it seems they (off-the-record) pressured the public servants to exclude that specific advice from Ministerial Briefings and everyone knew not to ask about it. So Morrison and Payne can hold up a few pieces of paper and say "See this one, the final one, didn't say it was illegal".

Then the KC says "What about those other papers that said it was that you saw"
"You can't prove I saw that, and it's not the Ministerial Briefing, so it doesn't matter, I guess I assumed they'd fixed it"
"But you did see it, it's addressed to you"
Payne, Morrison et al (Go to 55 secs):

Their argument is that if it was removed they trust the Department staff to have done their jobs and cleared it which is why it was no longer there. Of course anyone with a brain or halfway competent would have checked and made sure they asked the question, "this thing about legislative change is no longer there, I assume you have the legal advice to confirm that?"

They are running with the incompetence angle which will probably work but whatever happened to Ministerial responsibility? Another "convention" pollies can just choose to ignore with no consequence when it is inconvenient?
 

Saint

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Their argument is that if it was removed they trust the Department staff to have done their jobs and cleared it which is why it was no longer there. Of course anyone with a brain or halfway competent would have checked and made sure they asked the question, "this thing about legislative change is no longer there, I assume you have the legal advice to confirm that?"

They are running with the incompetence angle which will probably work but whatever happened to Ministerial responsibility? Another "convention" pollies can just choose to ignore with no consequence when it is inconvenient?
This Royal Commission process has shown how poor these Public Servants are, but nobody will be held to account. 95% of the population aren't following it, nor do they really care to know how Govt works.

But they'll complain about it and get misled by some ridiculous thing about "Debt and deficit" or some gaffe.

There hasn't been Ministerial Responsibility the way it's supposed to work for decades.

'Factions' overtook 'competence' in the selection of Ministers a long time ago.
 

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