Game Day The Rot In The Middle

[truman]

This is Shuey's

View attachment 257084

Hutchings'

View attachment 257087

I think the coaches have changed the roles of some of the players this year. Shuey seem to play in the defensive half majority of the time this year; this is probably why his inside 50's and goals are down this year as opposed to last year while the rebound 50's are up - don't know why they would want our most damaging midfielder to play in the defensive half for the majority of the game. This certainly wasn't the case last year and results this year suggest we should revert back to the set up we had last year. In any case, we seem to play a lot more defensively this year. Hutchins is playing more in the forward half this year resulting in him kicking more goals.

Maybe it's because the ball is spending more time in the back half this year then last and as shuey spends more time then Hutchings around the ball it seems like he's had a change of role but in fact it is because we can't get the ball forward of centre as much as last year

 

[frenchconnection]

Lions have good mids & fast smaller high forwards - they destroy us.

The gabba is not a happy hunting ground to I am a little anxious

You're a bit doom & gloom - cheer up mate. Anyway as others have said we actually have a fairly good winning record against Brisbane, and also have you looked at Brisbanes form this year and where they are on the ladder. I know our form could be better and our ruck division has taken a hit, but we should win this. Not sure your comment is srs or tongue in cheek though

 

[frenchconnection]

I thought we got Redden in because we knew Selwood was going to Geelong. Selwood was not a regular in 2015 (and neither was Hutchings), so how come Redden is an automatic choice this year? Don't think we had all three of Selwood, Priddis and Hutchings in the same team too often last year.

Probably a lot to do with Selwood being injured. Also not sure how many games Hutchings played last year. Know he played in the GF but how often during the home & away? Of course we had Sheed playing last year as well. So it would have been Priddis and Sheed mainly as that type of player I guess.

 

[sey666]

Interesting. I wonder what shep/wellinghams heat maps look like too?

Our rebound off half back really seems down so I wonder if that is pulling guys like Shuey further down the field to help and/or trying to win the damn pill.

Shuey has already had as many r50 this year as all of last season. Conversely he is about 20% down on i50. It's hard not to think between form and structure changes we are screwing the pooch massively.

Shepherd in 2016




Shepherd in 2015


Wellingham in 2015



Wellingham in 2016



So Shepherd's time in backline has gone down by 13%; Wellingham's has remained the same.

 

[RookiePick]

Ok these heat maps keep shooting holes in my arguments/thoughts.

Therefore I reject their validity as an analytical tool!

 

[sey666]

Can you post yeos please - where are you getting them from?

Yeo in 2016



Yeo in 2015



These are available in the AFL official app.

 

[sey666]

Ok these heat maps keep shooting holes in my arguments/thoughts.

Therefore I reject their validity as an analytical tool!

Out of Shuey, Yeo, Shepherd and Wellingham (I haven't looked at the others), it seems Shuey is the only one whose time in backline has increased this year. We have become less attacking than last year; with EMac back this year, I thought we would be more attacking than last year.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Agree but a 5 year discussion is pretty long without any action.

In that time we've drafted Sheed, Duggan, Nelson, Cavka, Waterman, Partington, Mutimer, Maginness, Snadden, traded in Yeo, Wellingham, Redden, Jetta and chased Coniglio, Christensen and god knows who else.

Some moves haven't worked, some are still work in progress but it's hardly no action.

 

[Biggie]

In that time we've drafted Sheed, Duggan, Nelson, Cavka, Waterman, Partington, Mutimer, Maginness, Snadden, traded in Yeo, Wellingham, Redden, Jetta and chased Coniglio, Christensen and god knows who else.

Some moves haven't worked, some are still work in progress but it's hardly no action.

BUT WE WANT ACTION NOW GODDAMIT

 

[sey666]

Maybe it's because the ball is spending more time in the back half this year then last and as shuey spends more time then Hutchings around the ball it seems like he's had a change of role but in fact it is because we can't get the ball forward of centre as much as last year

Unlikely. Most of our wins this year have been by big margins so the ball could not have been in our back half all that much in those games - only game Shuey has spent more time in the forward half this season was the Richmond game.

 

[Eaglemaniac]

Simmo has acknowledged we have a problem in the midfield, he just hasnt really changed the mids mix and the amount of time they play in there much. He cant do anything with one of them because that player cannot be played anywhere else but in the middle, but thats a discussion for another thread..

 

[JCHolmes]

bring back the badger, hes not the hero we want but hes the hero we need.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Actually he's neither

 

[sey666]

Ok these heat maps keep shooting holes in my arguments/thoughts.

Therefore I reject their validity as an analytical tool!

If you haven't given up on these already, have a look at Shepherd's and Wellingham's heatmaps from last year. It is almost as if each had his own exclusive zone in the defensive half (one on left and one on right) to guard. Although they played on bigger forwards, both did great last year - probably because they were quick, skillful players who only had half of the backline to protect. This year Shepherd is playing everywhere in the backline pushing up to the half forward line while Wellingham is playing all over the backline - no wonder we are leaking too many goals in succession to the opposition this year. As I mentioned in another thread, Last year we had the least instances (or something close to that) of the opposition kicking more than 4-5 goals in a row. May be we should have left Shepherd's and Wellingham's roles untouched when EMac got back this year.

There is no doubt the midfield has been average this year but some of our problems could be structural. It is not possible that we have this many players out of form at the same time, is it?

 

[Matele]

If you haven't given up on these already, have a look at Shepherd's and Wellingham's heatmaps from last year. It is almost as if each had his own exclusive zone in the defensive half (one on left and one on right) to guard. Although they played on bigger forwards, both did great last year - probably because they were quick, skillful players who only had half of the backline to protect. This year Shepherd is playing everywhere in the backline pushing up to the half forward line while Wellingham is playing all over the backline - no wonder we are leaking too many goals in succession to the opposition this year. As I mentioned in another thread, Last year we had the least instances (or something close to that) of the opposition kicking more than 4-5 goals in a row. May be we should have left Shepherd's and Wellingham's roles untouched when EMac got back this year.

There is no doubt the midfield has been average this year but some of our problems could be structural. It is not possible that we have this many players out of form at the same time, is it?

I agree with this given the evidence. Even if our midfield was off last year our backline held up and gave us some drive forward. Now it seems like they're swamped up back and the game is done. Maybe it became a reliance that the backline holds up and that's allowed some bad habits to come through?

 

[truman]

Unlikely. Most of our wins this year have been by big margins so the ball could not have been in our back half all that much in those games - only game Shuey has spent more time in the forward half this season was the Richmond game.

True most of our wins have been big margins but our losses have been by big margins as well. Plus I think we've lost more games already this year then last so suggests ball is spending more time back then usual. What are you basing shuey spending more time forward on? Not arguing just asking how you know?

 

[sey666]

True most of our wins have been big margins but our losses have been by big margins as well. Plus I think we've lost more games already this year then last so suggests ball is spending more time back then usual. What are you basing shuey spending more time forward on? Not arguing just asking how you know?

I looked at Shuey's heatmaps (which shows where he spent his time) from all 12 games this year - he did not spend more than 50% in the forward half in any of the matches except the Richmond game. Your argument has some merit if we are looking at the whole season (that is a combined heatmap for all 12 games) but it is irrelevant if we are looking at individual matches - have a look at the heatmaps (from GC and St K games) I posted 1-2 pages back.

 

[avishka5]

I looked at Shuey's heatmaps (which shows where he spent his time) from all 12 games this year - he did not spend more than 50% in the forward half in any of the matches except the Richmond game. Your argument has some merit if we are looking at the whole season (that is a combined heatmap for all 12 games) but it is irrelevant if we are looking at individual matches - have a look at the heatmaps (from GC and St K games) I posted 1-2 pages back.

without saying his elite, shuey has gone to another level this year. He's getting the ball everywhere these days.

 

[sey666]

without saying his elite, shuey has gone to another level this year. He's getting the ball everywhere these days.

Yes, but we are a much better team with him kicking it inside our forward 50 than kicking it from our defensive 50.

 

[lewigie]

Yes, but we are a much better team with him kicking it inside our forward 50 than kicking it from our defensive 50.

That's true, and his kicking from defensive 50 has been poor over the last few weeks. Missing targets, kicking to player's feet.

Missed some essential kicks that he had to make in the Bulldogs game.

 

[frenchconnection]

Out of Shuey, Yeo, Shepherd and Wellingham (I haven't looked at the others), it seems Shuey is the only one whose time in backline has increased this year. We have become less attacking than last year; with EMac back this year, I thought we would be more attacking than last year.

Think it may have more to do with that our possessions as a whole are down so % in my opinion does not tell the true story.

 

[frenchconnection]

True most of our wins have been big margins but our losses have been by big margins as well. Plus I think we've lost more games already this year then last so suggests ball is spending more time back then usual. What are you basing shuey spending more time forward on? Not arguing just asking how you know?

The biggest problem this year is that too much is being left to too few. Goodness knows what would happen if both Shuey and Priddis were injured and were out at the same time. Too many passengers (for whatever reason) and if they were paid on commission for effort their pockets would be a lot lighter (for quite a few of the players who are coasting). It's quite strange the drop off in form from last year to this year. Must have the coaches scratching their heads in wonder also.

 

[sey666]

Think it may have more to do with that our possessions as a whole are down so % in my opinion does not tell the true story.

Shuey, Shep and Yeo average more disposals than last year and only Wellingham is averaging less. So probably these heatmaps are telling us a lot.

Shep and Wellingham are playing in different positions to last year (read my last reply to Rookie Pick if possible) and I think this is why we are leaking too many goals in quick succession this year. When Shepherd and Wellingham are spending more time further up the ground (coupled with the fact that we are too tall down back with Emac back in the team), it leaves us too vulnerable to fast ball movement becuase they can't get back fast enough to defend. Sides with good skills and decision making are finding it easy to score quickly against us, bottom sides not so much because they turn it over, the results this year shows this clearly.

 

[javaguice]

Yep too tall down back. Less rebound from defense. Ball getting into f50 slower . Skills have dropped and we have less running around the ground to cover our turnovers because we're too tall down back.

 

[The Passenger]

Are those heatmaps where the players disposals are??

They don't seem right - clearly Sheppard had more than 76 disposals in 2015.