The Round 1 2019 team thread...

Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Posts
1,671
Likes
1,904
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Point me to the minute mark where he wasn't making an effort so I can go and watch it. It didn't see it.
I can't remember if it was in the third or last term, but the way Butler stepped him was appalling.

He also lost his feet in a marking contest with little to no body contact.

I've been sticking up for O'Brien for years, as I think we can all see he has attributes to make it. But I'll be honest and say his half of footy Saturday night made me start to think he just doesn't have the aggressiveness to ever make it. Hopefully he bounces back from the review and uses it as motivation.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Holy Rioli

Premium Gold
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Posts
3,492
Likes
4,572
Location
Australia
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Golden State Warriors
Point me to the minute mark where he wasn't making an effort so I can go and watch it. It didn't see it.

What i did see is that we pulled Worpel and O'Meara out of the middle in the third and we got killed on clearances and, as a result, the backline was getting hammered. In addition, I saw that Sicily was pulled as well so that Richmond's flow into their forward line was less disrupted. Scrimshaw spent much of the time out of his position as well.

I'm convinced that most people here miss 80% of what goes on during an AFL game, looking at the play instead as an 'Old Boys' league where you kinda play a position and run around a bit. In an AFL match if one guy in the backline is continually defending every entry then the odds are high that someone has fallen over upfield and are giving the opposition too much space to think. Yes, Frawley did very well on Riewolt but he had a lot of help. Riewolt was hardly a target in the first half because the Richmond midfield had no time think and were continually bombing to the forward line (which Hawthorn anticipated so well, often having a free man just hanging in the likely Richmond target space). In the second half, and particularly the third quarter, Riewolt was continually getting hit on the lead. Richmond's midfield had time and space to look up and deliver on target and so our backline got hammered.

The thing to remember about that game is that both squads went the A game in the first half and Hawthorn dominated Richmond. Hawthorn's defense stopped all the flow in Richmond's game, making the Tiger's really struggle to get the ball forward with any pace (just as the BH Hawks did against Brisbane in the first half). Likewise, Hawthorn's fluid forward game was impressive. Good options continually presented themselves and every forward movement looked dangerous, despite Breust laying an egg with the pill.

In the second half Richmond stuck with their A game while Hawthorn moved on, switching position all over the field to see what happened. The third saw Richmond's top midfield clean up a hodgepodge of a Hawthorn midfield and the rest of the game hung off that. In the fourth a couple of adjustments were made (O'Meara appeared again) and it evened out a bit. But Hawthorn didn't go back to the A game in the fourth. Richmond ran their top configuration until about the 10 minute mark of the fourth, particularly in the midfield, when they finally took Martin off.

I believe that if you look at the JLT series as a whole, you'll see a Hawthorn well set to do get some good results this year. The system is strong. If the midfield can break even, the system will give us the edge. I'm feeling pretty confident and see no need to go beating on players at this point.
I'm not beating on a player, I'm pointing out one particular effort that would be described as a coach killer. At no point have I called him any names, or insulted him. It was late in the 4th, I can't remember the minute - but Timmy had Butler stuck up against the boundary line, the camera action was really close up (as in just behind Butler) and it was obvious Butler was going to step back in rather than go towards the boundary. Timmy picked it, but laid the softest, weakest no effort tackle attempt I can recall and the 70kg Butler shrugged him off like he wasn't even there. The fact is, if O'Brien is deserving of a spot in our side, tackles like that need to stick, I'd expect them to stick in under 12's.

Otherwise I mostly agree with your assessment of the match as a whole, and am no way bothered by Richmond's comeback because it was obvious we pulled players and moved the magnets around. I reckon we'll win a nice chunk of games this year as well.
 

HairyO

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Posts
17,296
Likes
18,108
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I'm not beating on a player, I'm pointing out one particular effort that would be described as a coach killer. At no point have I called him any names, or insulted him. It was late in the 4th, I can't remember the minute - but Timmy had Butler stuck up against the boundary line, the camera action was really close up (as in just behind Butler) and it was obvious Butler was going to step back in rather than go towards the boundary. Timmy picked it, but laid the softest, weakest no effort tackle attempt I can recall and the 70kg Butler shrugged him off like he wasn't even there. The fact is, if O'Brien is deserving of a spot in our side, tackles like that need to stick, I'd expect them to stick in under 12's.

Otherwise I mostly agree with your assessment of the match as a whole, and am no way bothered by Richmond's comeback because it was obvious we pulled players and moved the magnets around. I reckon we'll win a nice chunk of games this year as well.
Or maybe he was exhausted from a far heavier workload than Butler. We have no idea how tired the boys were going in to the game.

We will get a fair idea in a week and a half and the teams are out.
 

Holy Rioli

Premium Gold
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Posts
3,492
Likes
4,572
Location
Australia
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Golden State Warriors
Or maybe he was exhausted from a far heavier workload than Butler. We have no idea how tired the boys were going in to the game.

We will get a fair idea in a week and a half and the teams are out.
If he had blown up after playing less than half a game compared to Butler's full game, then I'd suggest he's not fit enough to player seniors.
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Posts
1,671
Likes
1,904
AFL Club
Hawthorn
So next Thurs if OBrien is picked we start the Replace Clarko csmpaign ?
You're going nought to a hundred here dude.

O'Brien's effort on Butler was appalling. Simple. Can't be rolling with 'high work load' as an excuse.

I have been an advocate, and he has traits to make it, but entering a make or break year, playing for a spot in round 1, it was a very disappointing effort. One of a number during the game.

This is the same level of endeavour and aggressiveness that has been annoying many supporters for a long time. I hope I'm wrong, but it's getting tougher to think things will change if they haven't by now.

Extrapolate as you will.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

TylerDurden

Premium Gold
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Posts
4,381
Likes
7,719
Location
Lou's Tavern
AFL Club
Hawthorn
You're going nought to a hundred here dude.

O'Brien's effort on Butler was appalling. Simple. Can't be rolling with 'high work load' as an excuse.

I have been an advocate, and he has traits to make it, but entering a make or break year, playing for a spot in round 1, it was a very disappointing effort. One of a number during the game.

This is the same level of endeavour and aggressiveness that has been annoying many supporters for a long time. I hope I'm wrong, but it's getting tougher to think things will change if they haven't by now.

Extrapolate as you will.
The commentators also put slow mo’s on his efforts. Lyon shredded him a few times. It’s getting glaring now.
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Posts
32,430
Likes
19,630
Location
Where Premiership dreams are made...
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Man U, Canucks and 49ers
Thread starter #488
He may have run 10km that morning. We have absolutely zero clue what each player did. We find out next Thursday.
He may have run three marathons the day before too... hey I can play this game too !!! :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

realhawk

Club Legend
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Posts
1,179
Likes
1,030
Location
Ballarat
AFL Club
Hawthorn
People have got to stop potting TO. He is a VFL calibre player being asked to play AFL level. That he is on our senior list is the result of the recruiters not being able to bring superior tall talent to the club in the past few years.
 

Brant

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 6, 2009
Posts
11,381
Likes
14,312
Location
Padbury; WA
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Arsenal
People have got to stop potting TO. He is a VFL calibre player being asked to play AFL level. That he is on our senior list is the result of the recruiters not being able to bring superior tall talent to the club in the past few years.
*with a Pick in the millions?

Didn't suit your story to mention that we've been bringing in A Grade / AA Midfielders via trade during that time?

How's the Medical Team doing realdork?
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Posts
1,671
Likes
1,904
AFL Club
Hawthorn
People have got to stop potting TO. He is a VFL calibre player being asked to play AFL level. That he is on our senior list is the result of the recruiters not being able to bring superior tall talent to the club in the past few years.
O'Brien has AFL attributes. Talent alone he would be a very good AFL forward. He lacks in intensity and drive. Things that certainly frustrate supporters and are in his control.

As for our recruiters, so much wrong with that comment I'm just going to pass.
 

rogiebear93

Premiership Player
Joined
May 17, 2017
Posts
3,401
Likes
5,828
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Here’s the reason Nash plays:
Laird
B Smith
Milera

Serious running power off HB that needs enormous pressure. In fact, I’m tipping he tags Smith.
It's definitely a toss up between he and Moore, both great endurance with Nash having the pace advantage. I do think at this point that Moore may be a better overall match up for all but Milera there.

I reckon it'll go:

FB: Hardwick - Frawley - Stratton
HB: Impey - Brand - Sicily
C: Smith - Shiels - Henderson
HF: Burgoyne - Lewis - Bruest
FF: Puopolo - Roughead - Moore
R: McEvoy - O'Meara - Worpel

B: Cousins - Morrison - Scrimshaw - Ceglar
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Posts
1,671
Likes
1,904
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Nash is unique because whilst tall, he has the pace and ability to pressure opposition backs. If we are going to play two rucks and Rough, then Nash plays in my opinion.

I can't see us rolling out McEvoy, Ceglar, Roughead and Lewis in the same side.
 

Carl Spackler

All Australian
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Posts
667
Likes
1,422
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I can't see us rolling out McEvoy, Ceglar, Roughead and Lewis in the same side.
We did exactly that against Richmond, though, in the JLT2. We had an eight-man bench, though, so four will drop from that side automatically. Say it's Mirra, Hanrahan, O'Brien and Nash. Now if Gunners comes back then I imagine Scrimshaw gets pushed, possibly Lewis, but Gunners can swing and I think that fills Scrimshaw's role more dangerously than Lewis's. If Howe appears then maybe he challenges Cousins, but I reckon Cousins has a spot.

Anyways, it will be interesting to see who gets named. A week and a half still until the list is published. Sheesh. Pre-season is a killer.
 
Top Bottom