Conspiracy Theory The Russia-Ukraine War

[bourbons]

You're being played like a fiddle, mate. Sad.

The Bucha Atrocities and the Kremlin Apologists - The Bulwark

Commentators suffering from Ukraine Derangement Syndrome are distorting and distracting from the horrible facts.

www.thebulwark.com

Earlier, on March 10, there were shocking reports of a Russian strike on a maternity hospital in Mariupol; three people reportedly died on the spot, while a woman whose pelvis was crushed by debris died four days later after delivering a stillborn baby. Russian officials asserted that the hospital was being used as a base by the Ukrainian military, that the images of the bombing were faked, and that a pregnant woman seen being evacuated from the building with cuts on her face, Instagram beauty blogger Marianna Podgurskaya, was a crisis actor who played two different pregnant women in the photos of the bombing’s aftermath.

Bizarrely, a few days ago the pro-Kremlin propaganda machine made yet another attempt to debunk the hospital attack by circulating an interview with Podgurskaya, who apparently ended up either in Russia or in separatist-occupied Donetsk after her rescue. Whether or not the interview was coerced, it left no doubt, at the very least, that she was a real patient, not a plant. What’s more, Podgurskaya’s only claim that substantively contradicted the standard accounts of the bombing was that she didn’t hear an airplane before the hospital was hit and was told by staff that there had been no airstrike. (In fact, news reports alternately blamed the hit on an airstrike and on rocket shelling—a dubious improvement.) Some pro-Putin Twitter accounts, including that of right-wing American journalist A.J. Delgado, seized on Podgurskaya’s supposed mention of the maternity hospital being taken over by Ukrainian soldiers; but at that point in the interview, Podgurskaya was talking about a different hospital where she had initially intended to go.

Also good to see people picking up on Greenwald's recent MO which I mentioned earlier. From the same article;

Confronted with all this horror, what’s a pro-Russia spinner to do? Well, if you’re Glenn Greenwald, you lament the media’s uncritical use of “horrifying yet context-and-evidence-free photos and videos posted by Ukrainian officials” and praise the New York Times for at least acknowledging that these images and claims were not independently verified. Then you ignore the Times’s (and other media’s) subsequent firsthand coverage of the atrocities (and try to shift the focus to Hunter Biden’s laptop).

 

[BlueE]

You're being played like a fiddle, mate. Sad.

The Bucha Atrocities and the Kremlin Apologists - The Bulwark

Commentators suffering from Ukraine Derangement Syndrome are distorting and distracting from the horrible facts.

www.thebulwark.com

Also good to see people picking up on Greenwald's recent MO which I mentioned earlier. From the same article;

Oh ... now it's Greenwald's MO and not his tweet or a quote of what he's said, or taking a few words out of context to slur him. That's sad.​

Her eye witness account.​

“We proceeded to discuss whether it was an airstrike. They said it was no airstrike. So our opinion got confirmed. We didn’t hear the airplane, they didn’t hear it either. They told us it was a shell. After the first two explosions there were no other explosions.”​

The soldiers said it wasn't an airstrike and it was a shell and her and her husband hadn't heard a plane, but they could be wrong.
She specifically asks not to be filmed, but when someone asked her how she was when outside she replied “Everything is good. I feel good.”

In a video which began circulating April 1st, Vishegirskaya offers a clear and detailed account of what took place on and in the days leading up to March 9th. The witness begins by noting how many residents of Mariupol attempted to evacuate following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine on February 24th, but says authorities ensured it was “impossible to leave.”

On March 6th, with the birth of her child impending, she checked into maternity hospital number three, the city’s “most modern” facility. She was not there long before the Ukrainian military arrived and evicted all the hospital’s patients, as they sought access to the building’s solar panels, one of the last remaining sources of electricity in the besieged city.

“We were moved to the only small maternity hospital left. It had only one small generator… Husbands of women in labor settled in the basement and cooked meals for us on the street. Residents of neighboring houses also brought us meals,” Vishegirskaya says. “One day soldiers came. They didn’t help with anything. They were told the food is for women, how could they ask for it? They replied they hadn’t eaten in five days, took our food and said, ‘you can cook some more.’”

On the night of the 8th, the pregnant women “slept peacefully” as there were “no shootouts.” The next day, the soon-to-be mothers heard a shell explode outside. Vishegirskaya “instinctively” covered herself with her duvet, but still, shattered glass from a nearby window cut her lip, nose and forehead, though she says it was “nothing serious.”

“After the second explosion we got evacuated to the basement,” Vishegirskaya recalled. “We proceeded to discuss whether it was an airstrike. They said it was no airstrike. So our opinion got confirmed. We didn’t hear the airplane, they didn’t hear it either. They told us it was a shell. After the first two explosions there were no other explosions.”

As she waited, she noticed “a soldier with a helmet” taking pictures of her, and demanded he stop, “because obviously it was not a good time for that,” and she did not want to be photographed in her current state. The soldier complied. Back upstairs, the same individual began filming her and others again, refusing to stop until his subjects had demanded several times he do so.

Vishegirskaya’s husband later told her the man wasn’t a soldier, but an Associated Press correspondent, one of many on the scene at the time. She believes these journalists had been there “from the beginning,” as they were ready and waiting outside to snap the woman being led away on a stretcher, the first to emerge from the building in the wake of the shell attack, “as soon as she came out.”

The next day, after her baby was delivered via cesarean section, the same Associated Press staffers interviewed her, asking her to describe what happened. They enquired point blank if an airstrike had taken place, to which she responded, “no, even the people that were on the streets didn’t hear anything, nor did anyone.”

 

[BlueE]

What a load of rubbish. This whole debate, if it can be called that, is based on a false premise -- that Russia somehow has a right of influence over Ukraine, determining whether that country is "neutral," "friendly" or whatever. It doesn't -- Ukraine is a sovereign country and has the right to determine its own future according to its own preferences. To pretend otherwise, or to omit to acknowledge the fact, is the height of disingenuity (putting it mildly).
it's an obvious point, but Putin's desire to influence/control Ukraine could have been pursued in many ways that would stop short of a brutal invasion -- diplomacy, treaty, economic co-operation to name a few. Or if he genuinely feared a military threat he could have armed to the teeth on the Russia/Ukraine border and pledged to resist any invasion. But no, his mode of operation is to threaten and seek to intimidate. You and other apologists simply absorb this approach as if it's legitimate and proceed from there.
Then there is the ridiculous notion that Zelensky "crossed a red line" by entertaining a prospect of joining NATO. What right did Putin have to set up a red line? How does the existence of NATO -- a defensive treaty -- pose a threat that would have justified a red line?
Even worse, the statements that Zelensky "could have avoided a war" by giving in to Putin... There was only a threat of war because Putin was making the threat.
Your argument stinks, and the fact that you can find a few idiotic propaganda tweets to back it up with doesn't make it stink any less.

What's wrong with being neutral? Conveniently ignoring according to NATO, membership would never be allowed and Zelenskyy refused to negotiate even backed by Europe. So he's ended led down the Primrose path as politicos from all sides warned about, to the proxy US V Russia war that the US with McCain, Graham and Khobucher were pushing for in 2017.

Just like Australia have no right to ask Solomon Islands to remain neutral and not sign a security pact with China, specifically letting them build military bases will be a "red line" that shouldn't be crossed??

A major Chinese military presence in the South Pacific - flagged in a draft security deal between China and the Solomon Islands - would represent a "red line" for Australia, a security expert has warned.

Why Chinese military base in Solomon Islands would be 'red line' for Australia

www.9news.com.au

There is no way that Australia can allow this deal to proceed. If it must, the nation should invade and capture Guadalcanal such that we engineer regime change in Honiara.

There are other soft power levers to pull first and we should pull them forcefully.

But we should also immediately begin amassing an amphibious invasion force to add pressure.

Why is this so vital? Because if a Chinese naval base is allowed to develop so close to Australian shores, it is the effective end of our sovereignty and democracy.

Australia must ready Solomon Islands invasion

Here is the news: A draft security co-operation agreement between China and the Solomon Islands would allow Chinese military forces to be deployed in the Pacific Island nation and could pave the way for the establishment of a People’s Liberation Army base. The “framework agreement” between the...

www.macrobusiness.com.au

 

[BlueE]

You don't think independently!!!!

You've fallen hook line and sinker for Putins BS justifications to invade.
There is no justification to invade - despite your vacuous attempts at justifcation.

You are a Putin apologist because you've fallen for his propaganda.
No sensible review of the facts justifies the killing and complete decimation of Ukraine.

You are a fool to think otherwise.

You get triggered badly don't you? Perhaps you should try reviewing the facts?

8 years ago

John Mearsheimer on why the West is principally responsible for the Ukrainian crisis

The political scientist believes the reckless expansion of NATO provoked Russia

www.economist.com

The “the West” and especially the U.S. is “principally responsible for the crisis which began in February 2014″—a crisis that has turned into the current conflict which in its turn could escalate into nuclear war between NATO and Russia.

This time he adds that in December 2017 then U.S. President Donald Trump sold Kiev “defensive” weapons (offensive enough to Moscow) in which Washington was followed by some of its European allies. In July 2021, the United States and Ukraine co-hosted a large naval exercise in the Black Sea which involved navies from over 30 countries. Moreover, "Operation Sea Breeze" provoked Russia by entering its territorial waters.

Finding the situation “intolerable,” Moscow mobilized its army on the Ukrainian border to send a clear message—to no avail. In December there was a diplomatic stand-off when Russia demanded a written guarantee that Ukraine would not become a part of NATO.

“many prominent American foreign-policy experts have warned against NATO expansion since the late 1990s”.

 

[No SPIN]

You get triggered badly don't you? Perhaps you should try reviewing the facts?

8 years ago

John Mearsheimer on why the West is principally responsible for the Ukrainian crisis

The political scientist believes the reckless expansion of NATO provoked Russia

www.economist.com

The “the West” and especially the U.S. is “principally responsible for the crisis which began in February 2014″—a crisis that has turned into the current conflict which in its turn could escalate into nuclear war between NATO and Russia.

This time he adds that in December 2017 then U.S. President Donald Trump sold Kiev “defensive” weapons (offensive enough to Moscow) in which Washington was followed by some of its European allies. In July 2021, the United States and Ukraine co-hosted a large naval exercise in the Black Sea which involved navies from over 30 countries. Moreover, "Operation Sea Breeze" provoked Russia by entering its territorial waters.

Finding the situation “intolerable,” Moscow mobilized its army on the Ukrainian border to send a clear message—to no avail. In December there was a diplomatic stand-off when Russia demanded a written guarantee that Ukraine would not become a part of NATO.

“many prominent American foreign-policy experts have warned against NATO expansion since the late 1990s”.

Putin apologist log - version 149.

There’s is nothing you can offer to excuse Putin’s barbarity.
That you even try is sad, that you actually believe Putin is a victim is worse.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Patrick Lancaster is a journalist worth watching.

There's also a Chinese journo embedded with the RA in Mariupol

 

[pinko77]

Patrick Lancaster is a journalist worth watching.

There's also a Chinese journo embedded with the RA in Mariupol

Patrick is a rare person in terms of what a journalist should be covering and reporting much better then the fake CNN crap.

 

[Malifice]

Patrick Lancaster is a journalist worth watching.

Well done Comrade! Heil Putin! Keep 'Doing your own research'!

 

[bourbons]

Oh ... now it's Greenwald's MO and not his tweet or a quote of what he's said, or taking a few words out of context to slur him. That's sad.​

lol

Do you know what MO means? His tweets and what he says comprise his MO, his mode of operating ie. he publicly questioned the initial reports from Bucha, but didn't see fit to mention anything more once Russia's actions were confirmed by multiple other orgs and sources - instead preferring to focus Hunter Biden's laptop, of all things (and among others). Clear agenda in my estimation, and objectively poor reporting.

Good to see this disingenuousness is being noticed.

Her eye witness account.

“We proceeded to discuss whether it was an airstrike. They said it was no airstrike. So our opinion got confirmed. We didn’t hear the airplane, they didn’t hear it either. They told us it was a shell. After the first two explosions there were no other explosions.”​

The soldiers said it wasn't an airstrike and it was a shell and her and her husband hadn't heard a plane, but they could be wrong.
She specifically asks not to be filmed, but when someone asked her how she was when outside she replied “Everything is good. I feel good.”

In a video which began circulating April 1st, Vishegirskaya offers a clear and detailed account of what took place on and in the days leading up to March 9th. The witness begins by noting how many residents of Mariupol attempted to evacuate following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine on February 24th, but says authorities ensured it was “impossible to leave.”

On March 6th, with the birth of her child impending, she checked into maternity hospital number three, the city’s “most modern” facility. She was not there long before the Ukrainian military arrived and evicted all the hospital’s patients, as they sought access to the building’s solar panels, one of the last remaining sources of electricity in the besieged city.

“We were moved to the only small maternity hospital left. It had only one small generator… Husbands of women in labor settled in the basement and cooked meals for us on the street. Residents of neighboring houses also brought us meals,” Vishegirskaya says. “One day soldiers came. They didn’t help with anything. They were told the food is for women, how could they ask for it? They replied they hadn’t eaten in five days, took our food and said, ‘you can cook some more.’”

On the night of the 8th, the pregnant women “slept peacefully” as there were “no shootouts.” The next day, the soon-to-be mothers heard a shell explode outside. Vishegirskaya “instinctively” covered herself with her duvet, but still, shattered glass from a nearby window cut her lip, nose and forehead, though she says it was “nothing serious.”

“After the second explosion we got evacuated to the basement,” Vishegirskaya recalled. “We proceeded to discuss whether it was an airstrike. They said it was no airstrike. So our opinion got confirmed. We didn’t hear the airplane, they didn’t hear it either. They told us it was a shell. After the first two explosions there were no other explosions.”

As she waited, she noticed “a soldier with a helmet” taking pictures of her, and demanded he stop, “because obviously it was not a good time for that,” and she did not want to be photographed in her current state. The soldier complied. Back upstairs, the same individual began filming her and others again, refusing to stop until his subjects had demanded several times he do so.

Vishegirskaya’s husband later told her the man wasn’t a soldier, but an Associated Press correspondent, one of many on the scene at the time. She believes these journalists had been there “from the beginning,” as they were ready and waiting outside to snap the woman being led away on a stretcher, the first to emerge from the building in the wake of the shell attack, “as soon as she came out.”

The next day, after her baby was delivered via cesarean section, the same Associated Press staffers interviewed her, asking her to describe what happened. They enquired point blank if an airstrike had taken place, to which she responded, “no, even the people that were on the streets didn’t hear anything, nor did anyone.”

I do love this approach of repeating the same thing over and over, hoping it will accrue more veracity by osmosis or something

You do realise that none of that debunks the article I posted, yeah? That its actually the other way around, with the article I posted debunking yours? Oh look who I'm asking, of course you don't.

Like it matters whether the people in the building thought it was an air strike or shelling. Would have thought Russians attacking the building via whatever method might be the key takeaway here?

 

[bourbons]

What's wrong with being neutral?

Nothing, if thats what the sovereign nation in question wants.

I notice you've sidestepped the main point of the post you've replied to here (shocker) - can you outline for us why you think Russia should have any sway over a foreign nation's autonomy? You're repeating "primrose path" like some kind of safeword, but in one of the sources that you yourself posted, Zelensky states that "most Ukrainians want to join NATO" - why are you ignoring that part? Doesn't fit your narrative?

To repeat yet another question you've studiously avoided - how long should a sovereign country be denied their autonomy in order to satisfy whichever stuck-in-the-past lunatic is running Russia? Forever?

A major Chinese military presence in the South Pacific - flagged in a draft security deal between China and the Solomon Islands - would represent a "red line" for Australia, a security expert has warned.

Why Chinese military base in Solomon Islands would be 'red line' for Australia

www.9news.com.au

There is no way that Australia can allow this deal to proceed. If it must, the nation should invade and capture Guadalcanal such that we engineer regime change in Honiara.

There are other soft power levers to pull first and we should pull them forcefully.

But we should also immediately begin amassing an amphibious invasion force to add pressure.

Why is this so vital? Because if a Chinese naval base is allowed to develop so close to Australian shores, it is the effective end of our sovereignty and democracy.

Australia must ready Solomon Islands invasion

Here is the news: A draft security co-operation agreement between China and the Solomon Islands would allow Chinese military forces to be deployed in the Pacific Island nation and could pave the way for the establishment of a People’s Liberation Army base. The “framework agreement” between the...

www.macrobusiness.com.au

An expert made the "red line" statement, not our government. Also, from the 9news article;

Dr Pryke stressed the Solomon Islands would retain the final say over any stationing of Chinese military forces in the Pacific nation.

Seems like the good Dr understands the concept of autonomy. You should email him and ask for a refresher.

Just lol at your 2nd source calling for a potential invasion of the Solomon Islands over it - an article on some blog site no one has ever heard of written by 'Houses and Holes'. Sounds legit

 

[Marcel Proust]

Keep 'Doing your own research'!

Interesting comment given there haven't been mainstream reporters in Mariupol for yonks.

*As far as I know

 

[Malifice]

Interesting comment given there haven't been mainstream reporters in Mariupol for yonks.

*As far as I know

Your support of Russia is coming from a pro Kremlin propagandist posing as an independent journalist.

I mean for *s sake, check your sources. You're being brainwashed.

 

[BlueE]

lol

Do you know what MO means? His tweets and what he says comprise his MO, his mode of operating ie. he publicly questioned the initial reports from Bucha, but didn't see fit to mention anything more once Russia's actions were confirmed by multiple other orgs and sources - instead preferring to focus Hunter Biden's laptop, of all things (and among others). Clear agenda in my estimation, and objectively poor reporting.

Good to see this disingenuousness is being noticed.

You do realise that none of that debunks the article I posted, yeah? That its actually the other way around, with the article I posted debunking yours? Oh look who I'm asking, of course you don't.

Like it matters whether the people in the building thought it was an air strike or shelling. Would have thought Russians attacking the building via whatever method might be the key takeaway here?

I know what Modis operandi means but you're using using it incorrectly, especially when you didn't even quote or link Greenwald's tweets that you've based those claims on. Commentators made up quotes he didn't say which got attributed to Greenwald and when caught out said, it's what we thought he would say!



Whatever happened in Bucha needs to be investigated and Moscow are asking the UN Security Council to meet to address claims that Russian forces committed mass murders. They also need to address the videos of Russian soldiers who had surrendered were tied up and shot in the legs and groin, punched and kicked in the face, until it looked like they died. Also, the interview with the Ukrainian medic Druzenko, who ordered his staff to castrate wounded Russian soldiers then later apologised, saying he was emotional and no Russian solders had been sexually mutilated (even though video is alleged).

The interview I posted supported that no one knew whether it was airstrikes or shells, there were two separate pregnant women, but she's never seen the other one before (no one knows her, or her husband and family) so I'm not sure why they think it was pro-Kremlin propaganda? It also supported that the hospital was empty except for a few people who'd been kicked out of the main hospital which the Ukrainians had taken over for a base, they had to fend for themselves for food, cooking their own in the street and the women were not being allowed to leave the city to get adequate medical treatment, by the Ukraine army.

Modus operandi is a Latin term used in English-speaking circles to describe an individual's or group's habitual way of operating, which forms a discernible pattern.

Greenwald's MO for which he has demonstrated with Assange and Snowden winning Pulitzer for the Guardian and Polk prizes and was fired from the Intercept newspaper which he cofounded for, is presenting independent, investigative journalism and is against censorship of dissenting views.

 

[BlueE]

Nothing, if thats what the sovereign nation in question wants.

I notice you've sidestepped the main point of the post you've replied to here (shocker) - can you outline for us why you think Russia should have any sway over a foreign nation's autonomy? You're repeating "primrose path" like some kind of safeword, but in one of the sources that you yourself posted, Zelensky states that "most Ukrainians want to join NATO" - why are you ignoring that part? Doesn't fit your narrative?

To repeat yet another question you've studiously avoided - how long should a sovereign country be denied their autonomy in order to satisfy whichever stuck-in-the-past lunatic is running Russia? Forever?

An expert made the "red line" statement, not our government. Also, from the 9news article;

Seems like the good Dr understands the concept of autonomy. You should email him and ask for a refresher.

Just lol at your 2nd source calling for a potential invasion of the Solomon Islands over it - an article on some blog site no one has ever heard of written by 'Houses and Holes'. Sounds legit

Great, so nothing wrong with neutrality!

Does the sovereign nation know that negotiations for neutrality supported by the rest of Europe was rejected by their President a week before the war started, knowing that NATO membership would never be given, but the appearance that the door will be left open as an excuse for the country to go to war?

Double Y, who is alleged to have made 100 million dollars last year, good gig while Ukraine is one of the poorest countries in Europe, has led his country down the primrose path, despite years of warning from politicians, the right and left and many experts about what is happening.

US policy amounts to fighting Russia "to the last Ukrainian."



The government assistant minister for defence Andrew Hastie first made the red line comment in an interview with Liam Bartlett, and Australia are warning the Solomon's and others who are signing agreements with China not to let them put military bases in their countries. But you want to minimise those threats and pretend it's not happening when it is very similar to what has happened with Russia and Ukraine.

It took many years and especially the last 7 or 8 with warnings from many, so lets see what happens in five to eight years if China keeps signing deals with Australia's close neighbours and puts military bases on those sovereign nations.

 

[BlueE]

 

[BlueE]

 

[Malifice]

You'll believe anything the Russians tell you wont you BlueE?

 

[bourbons]

I know what Modis operandi means but you're using using it incorrectly, especially when you didn't even quote or link Greenwald's tweets that you've based those claims on. Commentators made up quotes he didn't say which got attributed to Greenwald and when caught out said, it's what we thought he would say!

lol, of course you'd still be getting sucked in by Tucker's "just asking questions" routine. He's been doing it for years, google "Tucker Carlson just asking questions" - there's results going back to 2017, probably further. Vaccines, Democrats, you name it - hE's JusT aSkInG qUestIoNs!!1 Your media literacy is staggeringly low, bordering on non-functional.

I didn't think I'd need to re-quote Greenwald's tweet - did you forget you'd posted it? This one, questioning the veracity of the initial Bucha reports;



I checked his twitter the first coupla days after the satellite images and residents stories came out to see if he'd made any further comment re: the legitimacy of these claims. He hadn't - massive surprise there. I'm not interested in what other people have pretended he's said or what you are pretending I'm posting about him, transparent deflection attempt on your behalf.

Whatever happened in Bucha needs to be investigated and Moscow are asking the UN Security Council to meet to address claims that Russian forces committed mass murders. They also need to address the videos of Russian soldiers who had surrendered were tied up and shot in the legs and groin, punched and kicked in the face, until it looked like they died. Also, the interview with the Ukrainian medic Druzenko, who ordered his staff to castrate wounded Russian soldiers then later apologised, saying he was emotional and no Russian solders had been sexually mutilated (even though video is alleged).

Quite right, it all needs to be investigated. When those reports of Russian prisoners being shot emerged, the Ukranians said that it was absolutely unacceptable and if it was legit any of their soldiers involved would need to face justice - just compare and contrast that with the Russian response re: Bucha if you would?

The interview I posted supported that no one knew whether it was airstrikes or shells, there were two separate pregnant women, but she's never seen the other one before (no one knows her, or her husband and family) so I'm not sure why they think it was pro-Kremlin propaganda? It also supported that the hospital was empty except for a few people who'd been kicked out of the main hospital which the Ukrainians had taken over for a base, they had to fend for themselves for food, cooking their own in the street and the women were not being allowed to leave the city to get adequate medical treatment, by the Ukraine army.

Like it matters whether the people in the building thought it was an air strike or shelling. Would have thought Russians attacking the building via whatever method might be the key takeaway here?

Greenwald's MO for which he has demonstrated with Assange and Snowden winning Pulitzer for the Guardian and Polk prizes and was fired from the Intercept newspaper which he cofounded for, is presenting independent, investigative journalism and is against censorship of dissenting views.

Yep, that used to be his MO. Lately though and on this particular subject, his MO is to mitigate and minimise any Russian actions while laying the blame for the war squarely on Zelensky and the west. Fact is Russian invaded Ukraine, Ukraine didn't invade Russia - can you point me to a single tweet of Glenn's assigning some responsibility on Russia? Any at all?

I don't religiously read his twitter so it may be there, I don't know. But if you can't find any - wowee, that would be strange for an independent Pulitzer and Polk winning journalist?

 

[bourbons]

Great, so nothing wrong with neutrality!

Correct - if its what the sovereign nation wants. Ukraine obviously doesn't want that though, they want closer western integration, EU and NATO membership.

Does the sovereign nation know that negotiations for neutrality supported by the rest of Europe was rejected by their President a week before the war started, knowing that NATO membership would never be given, but the appearance that the door will be left open as an excuse for the country to go to war?

Yes, they knew that, along with the fact that these security guarantees supported by the rest of Europe have been broken by Russia before and that Russia were also asking for no NATO forces or weapons in over a dozen NATO countries as part of those negotiations.

That you won't touch this objective fact despite me mentioning it to you several times is telling, товарищ.

Double Y, who is alleged to have made 100 million dollars last year, good gig while Ukraine is one of the poorest countries in Europe, has led his country down the primrose path, despite years of warning from politicians, the right and left and many experts about what is happening.

I have this mental image of you as Dustin Hoffman from Rainman - except you're rocking back and forth chanting "primrose path" instead of "charlie babbit"

In any case, gonna need a source for that 100 million dollars claim.

 

[bourbons]

lol, what a surprise that Jimmy is also of a mind on this, how Greenwald of him. Let me just do a quick scan of his video titles over the last few weeks and... nup. Not a single one that even mentions Russia in a mildly negative light, shocked to be sitting here. I did find the following video titles though;

• US Media Pushes “War Crime” Propaganda In Ukraine
• The “Squad” Pushes War & Imperialism In Ukraine
• Gas Sales: The REAL Reason For Ukraine War
• Jewish Group Endorses Nazis In Ukraine
• Ukraine Chemical Weapon False Flag Attack Predicted
• Media Whitewashes Ukraine Nazis!
• US/NATO Preparing False Flag Chemical Attack In Ukraine?

There's a heap more too.

This is a source you're comfortable with? Does this seem in any way balanced to you? It doesn't strike you as a little strange for a high profile geo-politics commentator to have that list of videos, but not a single one even acknowledging that Russia invaded Ukraine and thats bad?

On to the video in question - just like you, not a single mention from Jimmy about previous pact violations by Russia, or Russian demands to nix NATO weapons and forces in over a dozen NATO countries that were part of the negotiations he's criticising Zelensky and the west for blowing. My favourite part was when Jimmy read Zelensky's quote about not being able to trust Putin in an incredulous voice, like it was one of the most bizarre things he's ever heard

"Bait Putin into it" lol - ah yes, the wife beater smacking around his mouthy missus again, look what you made me do!

I've already acknowledged what the west want and how they've gone about it. Just not sure why that cancels out what Ukraine want. For what must be the 5th time - how long should a sovereign country be denied their autonomy to satisfy whichever stuck-in-the-past lunatic is running Russia? Honestly interested in your thoughts on this point.

 

[bourbons]

lolz

Oh hai Glen - no questioning the veracity of evidence and context free videos this time? Again, shocked to be sitting here

He's right about one thing though - all wars inevitably contain atrocities. In light of that, there should probably be a really, really good reason for starting one? Putin's, which Glenn and Jimmy apparently support, are "nazis" and "NATO made me do it"

Incredible stuff.

 

[BlueE]

lol, of course you'd still be getting sucked in by Tucker's "just asking questions" routine. He's been doing it for years, google "Tucker Carlson just asking questions" - there's results going back to 2017, probably further. Vaccines, Democrats, you name it - hE's JusT aSkInG qUestIoNs!!1 Your media literacy is staggeringly low, bordering on non-functional.

I didn't think I'd need to re-quote Greenwald's tweet - did you forget you'd posted it? This one, questioning the veracity of the initial Bucha reports;



I checked his twitter the first coupla days after the satellite images and residents stories came out to see if he'd made any further comment re: the legitimacy of these claims. He hadn't - massive surprise there. I'm not interested in what other people have pretended he's said or what you are pretending I'm posting about him, transparent deflection attempt on your behalf.

Quite right, it all needs to be investigated. When those reports of Russian prisoners being shot emerged, the Ukranians said that it was absolutely unacceptable and if it was legit any of their soldiers involved would need to face justice - just compare and contrast that with the Russian response re: Bucha if you would?

Yep, that used to be his MO. Lately though and on this particular subject, his MO is to mitigate and minimise any Russian actions while laying the blame for the war squarely on Zelensky and the west. Fact is Russian invaded Ukraine, Ukraine didn't invade Russia - can you point me to a single tweet of Glenn's assigning some responsibility on Russia? Any at all?

I don't religiously read his twitter so it may be there, I don't know. But if you can't find any - wowee, that would be strange for an independent Pulitzer and Polk winning journalist?

So this is the tweet that resulted in your slurs and wild claims about being the MO of Greenwald. The photos were unable to be independently verified by the NYT. That hasn't changed and Russia has called for UN security council to investigate.

How does that justify what you wrote?

Why is it such a big deal that some commentators are waiting for independent investigation into the claims and hopefully claims made about both Ukrainian and Russian armies?

This is more about your MO than his.

 

[bourbons]

So this is the tweet that resulted in your slurs and wild claims about being the MO of Greenwald. The photos were unable to be independently verified by the NYT. That hasn't changed and Russia has called for UN security council to investigate.

How does that justify what you wrote?

Why is it such a big deal that some commentators are waiting for independent investigation into the claims and hopefully claims made about both Ukrainian and Russian armies?

This is more about your MO than his.

lol. So thats a no I take it, on the request to provide a Greenwald tweet even mildly suggesting there may be a portion of blame on the Russian side for the war?

And no, mate. Its been verified.

Russia’s Bucha ‘Facts’ Versus the Evidence - bellingcat

Open source evidence appears to contradict Russian claims of elaborate fakes in Ukrainian town where dead bodies were found strewn across street.

www.bellingcat.com

Point by point debunking of the Russian narrative, including some instances of Russian state-owned media torpedoing their own Bucha denials in other reporting.

Bucha: evidence and evidence

A day ago, we had only a few photos and videos from Bucha, which shocked everyone. Now there is much more evidence - other photos, videos, and most importantly - eyewitness accounts, including those recorded by independent journalists and human rights organizations. Here are some links:

Deputy from Bucha Katerina Ukraintseva talks about how the city lived during the occupation

Stories from Bucha residents | ‘They gave their rations to the people in the basement, then threw down a grenade’ Bucha City Council Deputy Kateryna Ukraintseva describes life under Russian occupation. — Meduza

The story of local resident Vladislav Kozlovsky about what happened in Bucha, including the executions

Short video from Mediazona, two minutes - frame-by-frame analysis of the video, which in telegram channels began to be called a fake, because supposedly “corpses are moving” there (here is a video in good quality and you can see that no one is moving there)

NY Times video from Bucha, also civilian corpses with their hands tied.

Regarding the argument “But Bucha was released already on March 30-April 1” and there are no corpses there was: video with corpses from April 1
post 1 post 2

Human Rights Watch report on war crimes, including those that took place in Bucha. (if anyone suddenly thinks that HRW is a pro-Western organization and is acting against Russia, then here is their statement about the torture of Russian prisoners).

In fact, there is already a ton of stuff on the internet, including from credible media outlets. If you want to find information, just turn on the VPN and start googling the word Bucha. If you want to calm down and brush it off, you can turn on the TV or read the statement of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation "you are all lying."

In summary: the number of evidence confirming the involvement of Russian troops (including Kadyrov's men) in the killings of civilians is growing. From the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, we have so far only a statement that this is all fake, not a single civilian (!) In Bucha was injured (and they said so). This, just in case, I remind you, is said by approximately the same people in whom Navalny poisoned himself, a Boeing MH-17 shot down a Ukrainian fighter, and Russia did not attack Ukraine.

Story upon story from residents who lived through it, corroborating events. If they're all making it up, it is the most smoothly oiled stitch-up job in world history, far surpassing the 2020 election (lol), perpetrated with an almost supernatural level of execution and compliance. In an active war zone

Satellite images show dead bodies lay in Bucha for WEEKS

Satellite images show that bodies Russia claimed were brought in by Ukraine after their troops left the town of Bucha had actually been there for weeks, debunking Moscow's claim the images were staged.

www.dailymail.co.uk

When even the DailyFail is acknowledging reality, might be time to do the same

All this additional info was available, yet Greenwald saw fit to make no further mention of it after questioning the initial video and reports. He didn't have to declare Russia confirmed war criminals or anything, just acknowledge more reporting and corroboration was emerging on a topic he'd already been interested enough in to comment on. Pretty shoddy journalism imo, clearly indicative of an agenda.

 

[BlueE]

Correct - if its what the sovereign nation wants. Ukraine obviously doesn't want that though, they want closer western integration, EU and NATO membership.
Yes, they knew that, along with the fact that these security guarantees supported by the rest of Europe have been broken by Russia before and that Russia were also asking for no NATO forces or weapons in over a dozen NATO countries as part of those negotiations.

That you won't touch this objective fact despite me mentioning it to you several times is telling, товарищ.

I have this mental image of you as Dustin Hoffman from Rainman - except you're rocking back and forth chanting "primrose path" instead of "charlie babbit"

In any case, gonna need a source for that 100 million dollars claim.

But Ukraine repeatedly turned the offer of neutrality down. Even when it was supported by Europe in a deal signed by Russian and the US only days before the invasion turned, according to the German ambassador who brokered the deal.

Cuba was a sovereign nation that wanted Russian bases and so was Pakistan, so why couldn't they?

WA had a legally binding referendum with 2/3 of the population voting to withdraw from the federation of Australian States and Britain refused permission.

Based on Ukrainian investigative journalists reporting that revealed hidden offshore business activities of YY and his close associated in their business dealings with Kolomoisky and others. Since you've looked into Kolomoisky you'll know he has been protected since YY became President with no prosecutions for that pesky 5.6 billion of mainly overseas aid money, that just disappeared from his private bank

Найближче оточення Зеленського придбало нерухомість у Лондоні на $7,5 мільйона

Компанії з офшорної мережі власників «Квартал 95» володіють квартирами у Лондоні загальною вартістю близько 7,5 мільйона доларів.

www.slidstvo.info

 

[BlueE]

lol, what a surprise that Jimmy is also of a mind on this, how Greenwald of him. Let me just do a quick scan of his video titles over the last few weeks and... nup. Not a single one that even mentions Russia in a mildly negative light, shocked to be sitting here. I did find the following video titles though;

• US Media Pushes “War Crime” Propaganda In Ukraine
• The “Squad” Pushes War & Imperialism In Ukraine
• Gas Sales: The REAL Reason For Ukraine War
• Jewish Group Endorses Nazis In Ukraine
• Ukraine Chemical Weapon False Flag Attack Predicted
• Media Whitewashes Ukraine Nazis!
• US/NATO Preparing False Flag Chemical Attack In Ukraine?

There's a heap more too.

This is a source you're comfortable with? Does this seem in any way balanced to you? It doesn't strike you as a little strange for a high profile geo-politics commentator to have that list of videos, but not a single one even acknowledging that Russia invaded Ukraine and thats bad?

On to the video in question - just like you, not a single mention from Jimmy about previous pact violations by Russia, or Russian demands to nix NATO weapons and forces in over a dozen NATO countries that were part of the negotiations he's criticising Zelensky and the west for blowing. My favourite part was when Jimmy read Zelensky's quote about not being able to trust Putin in an incredulous voice, like it was one of the most bizarre things he's ever heard

"Bait Putin into it" lol - ah yes, the wife beater smacking around his mouthy missus again, look what you made me do!

I've already acknowledged what the west want and how they've gone about it. Just not sure why that cancels out what Ukraine want. For what must be the 5th time - how long should a sovereign country be denied their autonomy to satisfy whichever stuck-in-the-past lunatic is running Russia? Honestly interested in your thoughts on this point.

What a surprise you can't look at what YY or Biden is saying and keep slurring anyone that has a dissenting view to war and believe in negotiations with made up titles.

What about Israel's view of what has happened? They're no fans of Russia who have ties with Palestine.