The saga dragging on is Evans and Vlads fault, says Hirds lawyer

[tesla1962]

I think Sam Mitchell is more representative of the majority than you'd like to believe.

That you take a sledge about an injection to suggest that other players think the EFC players are lying drug cheats is also pretty laughable.
I suppose it explains, in part, why you are on an internet forum adopting an extreme position.

 

[Cronos]

That you take a sledge about an injection to suggest that other players think the EFC players are lying drug cheats is also pretty laughable.
I suppose it explains, in part, why you are on an internet forum adopting an extreme position.

Hardly adopting an extreme position - more following the most likely chain of events to a very logical conclusion.

The fact that you still actually believe that all was fine at EFC in 2012 is what I'd call laughable. If the EFC players get off, it won't be because they didn't dope.

 

[beechy12345]

Hardly adopting an extreme position - more following the most likely chain of events to a very logical conclusion.

The fact that you still actually believe that all was fine at EFC in 2012 is what I'd call laughable. If the EFC players get off, it won't be because they didn't dope.

I think it's more laughable that you'd still think we doped after a two year investigation and being found not guilty twice. Seems like you're only respecting the process if it suits your agenda to be honest

 

[Cronos]

I think it's more laughable that you'd still think we doped after a two year investigation and being found not guilty twice. Seems like you're only respecting the process if it suits your agenda to be honest

So we had a tribunal that were comfortably satisfied that Dank ordered TB4 (despite later claiming Thymomodulin) and that Charters ordered TB4 (despite claiming Thymomodulin) for him. We have a supplier who says they only supply TB4, not Thymomodulin. The trubunal were comfortably satisfied that Charters believed he received TB4, they were also comfortably satisfied that Alavi believed he received and compounded TB4.

They were not comfortably satisfied it was TB4, despite ruling out Thymomodulin as a possibility.

This is the scant info that's been released by EFC friendly sources who were the only ones allowed to read the judgement from a judgement that was apparently abundantly clear that EFC were innocent, and even WADA seem to think the judgement was wrong based on their appeal.

Yet you're confused as to why people still think EFC players doped.

 

[Muggs]

Robbo's getting in on the blame the AFL act. From his Q/A session today. (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...kes-for-round-15/story-fnp04d70-1227439540928)

 

[NoAFLinmycomp]

I think Sam Mitchell is more representative of the majority than you'd like to believe.

Possibly quite representative of players form the other 17 clubs, that continue to be smeared by the ongoing saga.

References to this not being new, reinforces this.

 

[Gavstar]

I think it's more laughable that you'd still think we doped after a two year investigation and being found not guilty twice. Seems like you're only respecting the process if it suits your agenda to be honest

I thought your Captain and Club Doctor both admitted EFC players took a WADA banned drug, which is not being pursued because of a technicality.

No question in my mind what any players who took AOD9604 are.

 

[the_interloper]

I think it's more laughable that you'd still think we doped after a two year investigation and being found not guilty twice. Seems like you're only respecting the process if it suits your agenda to be honest

They still may have doped, you'd have to admit that. If no one knows exactly what they got INJECTED into them that has to be a possibility.

 

[King Elvis]

They still may have doped, you'd have to admit that. If no one knows exactly what they got INJECTED into them that has to be a possibility.

You'd think they didn't inject them with something that was detrimental to their performance, right?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I think it's more laughable that you'd still think we doped after a two year investigation and being found not guilty twice. Seems like you're only respecting the process if it suits your agenda to be honest

If you like a good laugh, like me, just sit back and ask yourself this question...

"If they players really do have no idea what they were given, why have their union made absolutely no effort in trying to find out what its members were injected with?"

 

[beechy12345]

If you like a good laugh, like me, just sit back and ask yourself this question...

"If they players really do have no idea what they were given, why have their union made absolutely no effort in trying to find out what its members were injected with?"

Source?

All I'm saying is that if they're lawfully found to be not guilty once again then there's no point disputing that. If you don't respect the process and the findings then nobody can help you

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Source?

All I'm saying is that if they're lawfully found to be not guilty once again then there's no point disputing that. If you don't respect the process and the findings then nobody can help you

Why would you need a source for that question?

Ask the question to yourself?

How could a union, not be making noise about its members being injected with unknown drugs?

No union I've ever heard of would be content with a finding that ridiculous, and say nothing more of it.

In what alternate reality would this be legit?


The players and the AFLPA know exactly what they were injected with and its why they've been completely silent...and by extension, why the WADA appeal has got them all shitting bricks.

 

[stewie dew]

Spot on Echols.

 

[beechy12345]

Why would you need a source for that question?

Ask the question to yourself?

How could a union, not be making noise about its members being injected with unknown drugs?

No union I've ever heard of would be content with a finding that ridiculous, and say nothing more of it.

In what alternate reality would this be legit?


The players and the AFLPA know exactly what they were injected with and its why they've been completely silent...and by extension, why the WADA appeal has got them all shitting bricks.

Haha because at the end of the day everything you're saying is really just your opinion. Do you have an inside man at the AFLPA? And what are they supposed to do besides remain silent? Grandstand to the media about their innocence? At the end of the day you don't know s**t and neither do I but I'll respect the verdict whichever way it goes

 

[jenny61_99]

Maybe but have always thought he is an intelligent man who made mistakes and then compounded them.

It takes a brave man to own up to his mistakes. If only he'd done that (owned up). He could have preserved his legend status with some humility. Alas, not to be.

 

[jenny61_99]

How could the players have been suspended? They have never been found guilty of anything.

The players have never been found guilty of anything. Nor have they ever given the impression they would plead guilty to being drug cheats when they plainly feel they aren't, and have repeatedly said so.

You are ignoring one inescapable fact, the players steadfastly believe they are innocent and have at no stage given the indication they would accept guilt.

The players have never been found guilty of anything. Bans are therefore irrelevant.

You know as well as I do - and everyone else who has followed the saga does - that each and every statement the players have made has stated they are innocent and won't accept a deal.

Say that again?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Haha because at the end of the day everything you're saying is really just your opinion. Do you have an inside man at the AFLPA? And what are they supposed to do besides remain silent? Grandstand to the media about their innocence? At the end of the day you don't know s**t and neither do I but I'll respect the verdict whichever way it goes

No other union in the world would go silent if their members were injected with unknown drugs by the employer.

They'd be taking them through the courts if they truly didn't know.

 

[beechy12345]

Right so the union, the players, the AFL and presumably ASADA know exactly what was taken and the process is followed and a not guilty verdict is reached. Surely we're innocent then?

 

[stewie dew]

Look at the case of the rogue anaesthetist at a clinic in eastern suburbs of Victoria who was giving drugs to himself then injecting the remainder of the drug into patient at which point he transferred Hep C, patients went to the courts, class action, payout.

The players aren't even trying to find out what was given to them, union not helping, club not doing much either. Just staggering.

 

[gjt80]

Right so the union, the players, the AFL and presumably ASADA know exactly what was taken and the process is followed and a not guilty verdict is reached. Surely we're innocent then?

I don't think Echols is saying that the various bodies 'know exactly' what was taken. The question he/she posed was why hasn't the AFLPA pursued the matter on behalf of the players, as would any workers' union in any other industry? It just doesn't make sense, particularly given that 14 or so are no longer playing in the AFL.
There must be some reason why the 34, or at least a percentage of them, have not pressed the AFLPA to investigate.

 

[beechy12345]

I don't think Echols is saying that the various bodies 'know exactly' what was taken. The question he/she posed was why hasn't the AFLPA pursued the matter on behalf of the players, as would any workers' union in any other industry? It just doesn't make sense, particularly given that 14 or so are no longer playing in the AFL.
There must be some reason why the 34, or at least a percentage of them, have not pressed the AFLPA to investigate.

I understand but the AFL and ASADA must also have this information. We invited them to investigate there's no way the AFLPA know and the others do not. Therefore if this information is known as Echols suggests and that we doped as he/she is implying then why wouldn't the tribunal come to a guilty verdict? There's simply too much doubt and you have to respect the tribunals decision

 

[gjt80]

I understand but the AFL and ASADA must also have this information. We invited them to investigate there's no way the AFLPA know and the others do not. Therefore if this information is known as Echols suggests and that we doped as he/she is implying then why wouldn't the tribunal come to a guilty verdict? There's simply too much doubt and you have to respect the tribunals decision

I have no idea of the point you are trying to make. Echols asked a simple question. Why haven't any of the 34 players made any attempt, via their union, to uncover what exactly was in the needles? Nowhere does Echols suggest that the EFC doped. Nor does Echols allege that the AFL, ASADA or the AFLPA have information re the supplements that has not been made public. As employees of the EFC, the players have powers that neither the AFL nor ASADA have. They can, I would think, issue subpoenas against the likes of Dank and Robinson who had a duty of care as supervisors of the supplement program.
We know ASADA tried to issue subpoenas against Alavi and Charter without success. Similarly, Dank was not directly employed by the AFL, so they (the AFL) has no power to question him (and I very much doubt they want to).
An employee union in any other industry would be champing at the bit to find out exactly what their members 'endured'. Why aren't the AFLPA?
BTW has Hal Hunter's case progressed?

 

[compact72]

I understand but the AFL and ASADA must also have this information. We invited them to investigate there's no way the AFLPA know and the others do not. Therefore if this information is known as Echols suggests and that we doped as he/she is implying then why wouldn't the tribunal come to a guilty verdict? There's simply too much doubt and you have to respect the tribunals decision

Yes you did ask them to investigate

For some odd reason, their investigation hasn't been made public yet?

 

[Crankyhawk]

Right so the union, the players, the AFL and presumably ASADA know exactly what was taken and the process is followed and a not guilty verdict is reached. Surely we're innocent then?

No, but the punishment by process would be sufficient for me (given the amount that is not knowable due to lack of records). And will cheer if WADA savage the AFL administration. For me as long as Dank is ruined (not just in a sporting sense) Essendon et al could be exonerated for all I care.

 

[gjt80]

In 1983 I was teaching at Oberon High School in Geelong. When the day came for the students to receive their annual (?) TB injections one of my colleagues, Richard Bryden, jumped in the queue and had an injection "to set an example to his students who seemed hesitant and afraid" (from court documents).
Two days later Richard had a tumor appear in his neck which developed into cancer. It was a long and terrible illness, Richard spending the next three years in hospital before dying in 1986. He was 41 years old.
Richard successfully sued the Education Department. He could not have afforded that action and it was fortunate that he was a union member (Victorian Secondary Teachers Association).
I relate this story purely because those 34 players may well have had a drug injected in 2012 that could have horrible consequences down the track. They are all members of a union and that union should have taken action on their behalf.
The BCG injection that Richard Bryden received had been injected into thousands, possibly tens of thousands of people with no side effects.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=3pMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2398,2853596&hl=en

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=2pMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3244,3422065&hl=en