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MaddAdam

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That was some HELP...
Without that 'help' would the players be better or worse off do you think?

For my 2c; I think they should have stood back & let it run it's course no matter how good or bad it was going to be.
But we all know that the AFL don't work that way.

The AFL overplayed its hand, I reckon they thought they'd get out ahead of ASADA and that they'd be able to nobble ASADA from within.

Clearly the plan was to keep the punishment inhouse and on the club.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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I don't think we've been told the full story on just how much the AFL and Evans/Essendon cooked up their response and plan in the very early stages, the one that required Hirdy to go.

The AFL knows lots more that the ACC told them that they can't talk about publicly.

Really? We’ve seen the doomed MOA that the AFL and ASADA signed. I doubt there’s much more to it than that.
 

karen50

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Not everything has been before the courts.

I don't know exactly what would be uncovered.
an not everyone will, including Dank. Dank is the only one IMO that could clear this whole matter up, but that wont happen cause the Bikies rule him. , Dank says anything, the Bikies will shoot him
 

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MaddAdam

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Really? We’ve seen the doomed MOA that the AFL and ASADA signed. I doubt there’s much more to it than that.

As if the likes of Evans and Gil and Demetriou weren't talking "off line". There's no written record of that stuff - for very obvious reasons, as Stringer says "You're taking notes of a goddam criminal conspiracy?" - but if people are up under oath, I doubt they'd perjure themselves.

I know Essendon types dismiss it as it doesn't fit the narrative, but the meeting between Hird, Evans, Dank and Weapon where the plan to get bigger and better than everyone else was discussed. They obviously didn't take notes there.

Tania took notes when she thought off the record conversations were happening that her and James would be able to take advantage of by breaking the rules as it were.

Evans, Gil and Demetriou will have had some very interesting personal conversations about how to handle it all.
 

MaddAdam

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an not everyone will, including Dank. Dank is the only one IMO that could clear this whole matter up, but that wont happen cause the Bikies rule him. , Dank says anything, the Bikies will shoot him

Dank and Charter too. The Essendon colourful property developer paid the big bucks for a reason.

Dank rebuilt Toby Mitchell using the same stuff he was giving the Essendon players.
 
Aug 25, 2005
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That was some HELP...
Without that 'help' would the players be better or worse off do you think?

For my 2c; I think they should have stood back & let it run it's course no matter how good or bad it was going to be.
But we all know that the AFL don't work that way.

Errr dude, the AFL let them off.

They also took away draft picks - then gave them the no. 1 pick.

They fined them - then gifted them a fixture that generates millions.

They allowed them 'top up' players so they could field a team.

They tweaked the rules to ensure they remained 'competitive'.

They charged them with a 'disrepute' charge - and have still not punished them for doping.


I, for the life of me, cannot understand why Essendon people would want to rock the boat!
 

Beer n Skittles

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an not everyone will, including Dank. Dank is the only one IMO that could clear this whole matter up, but that wont happen cause the Bikies rule him. , Dank says anything, the Bikies will shoot him
Pretty much everything Dank would know has already been reported in the papers. I doubt Dank would even remember exactly who was injected with the various other PEDs at Essendon
 

Squeaky

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Errr dude, the AFL let them off.

They also took away draft picks - then gave them the no. 1 pick.

They fined them - then gifted them a fixture that generates millions.

They allowed them 'top up' players so they could field a team.

They tweaked the rules to ensure they remained 'competitive'.

They charged them with a 'disrepute' charge - and have still not punished them for doping.


I, for the life of me, cannot understand why Essendon people would want to rock the boat!

I can understand where you see it from; but what I was talking about is if the players weren't in the AFL 'boat' as you put it.
What if the AFL stood right back & let ASADA do their thing without interference.
Would the players (the 34) have been better or worse off?

I think that if they were at the mercy of the ASADA system (rather that with the AFL 'guiding them through it') they would have been no worse off.
In short I believe the AFL interference was to look after the AFL first, players and club next.
 

karen50

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Pretty much everything Dank would know has already been reported in the papers. I doubt Dank would even remember exactly who was injected with the various other PEDs at Essendon
wrong , no it has not. Bikies are Powerfull people. not everything has come out in the paper. all this is doing, is repeating the same s**t over an over again, Perhaps Carlton should be injected, they might find out how not to win a wooden spoon
 
Aug 25, 2005
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I can understand where you see it from; but what I was talking about is if the players weren't in the AFL 'boat' as you put it.
What if the AFL stood right back & let ASADA do their thing without interference.
Would the players (the 34) have been better or worse off?

I think that if they were at the mercy of the ASADA system (rather that with the AFL 'guiding them through it') they would have been no worse off.
In short I believe the AFL interference was to look after the AFL first, players and club next.
I think it was to look after the AFL. Full stop.

For the AFL to protect the AFL, they had to protect Essendon.
And to protect Essendon, they had to protect the players.

But they weren't stupid enough to think that they could get away with it without a scalp. They had to bluff everyone that they were fair dinkum.

So they tried to get everyone off, but wanted Hird accountable.

I have no doubt Hird deserved his 'punishment', but I also have no doubt that many others knew more than they said they did, and were just as guilty as Hird was.
 
Mar 21, 2016
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In short I believe the AFL interference was to look after the AFL first, players and club next.
AFL first the club 2nd players last

On your question about players better or worse. Some may have been better off, some may have had careers ended. I think the delay in suspension created it's own issues.

But I also recognise the players concern and confusion as to why they were being vilified for taking orange juice
 
Sep 22, 2011
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As if the likes of Evans and Gil and Demetriou weren't talking "off line". There's no written record of that stuff - for very obvious reasons, as Stringer says "You're taking notes of a goddam criminal conspiracy?" - but if people are up under oath, I doubt they'd perjure themselves.

I know Essendon types dismiss it as it doesn't fit the narrative, but the meeting between Hird, Evans, Dank and Weapon where the plan to get bigger and better than everyone else was discussed. They obviously didn't take notes there.

Tania took notes when she thought off the record conversations were happening that her and James would be able to take advantage of by breaking the rules as it were.

Evans, Gil and Demetriou will have had some very interesting personal conversations about how to handle it all.

Their plan was pretty simple. “Get out in front of it”, stop the players getting suspended so the game isnt affected, impose some sort of “penalty” on the club and make Hird the scapegoat.

It’s their standard MO.

Truthers hoping for more will be disappointed.
 

MaddAdam

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Their plan was pretty simple. “Get out in front of it”, stop the players getting suspended so the game isnt affected, impose some sort of “penalty” on the club and make Hird the scapegoat.

It’s their standard MO.

Truthers hoping for more will be disappointed.

Yes, that was the plan agreed, but I'm very confident the AFL knew a lot more about what was actually taking place during the doping program and associated shiftinesses than they let on.
 

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Arctic fox

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The players will be exonerated, will be back in the 2013 finals and we win the flag.
How's that.
 
I can understand where you see it from; but what I was talking about is if the players weren't in the AFL 'boat' as you put it.
What if the AFL stood right back & let ASADA do their thing without interference.
Would the players (the 34) have been better or worse off?

I think that if they were at the mercy of the ASADA system (rather that with the AFL 'guiding them through it') they would have been no worse off.
In short I believe the AFL interference was to look after the AFL first, players and club next.

Of course the players would be better off - For a start ASADA didn't have the power to make players talk during interviews - After all players who were charged were those who admitted they received injections - Under this scenario players would not have been charged.
 
Aug 25, 2005
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Their plan was pretty simple. “Get out in front of it”, stop the players getting suspended so the game isnt affected, impose some sort of “penalty” on the club and make Hird the scapegoat.

It’s their standard MO.

Truthers hoping for more will be disappointed.

If it came out that the AFL 'choreographed' their attempts to get the players off - that's pretty scandalous.
 
That was some HELP...
Without that 'help' would the players be better or worse off do you think?

For my 2c; I think they should have stood back & let it run it's course no matter how good or bad it was going to be.
But we all know that the AFL don't work that way.
Ultimately I don't think it would have changed the outcome. The time frame may have been a little different.
 
Jul 13, 2015
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That was some HELP...
Without that 'help' would the players be better or worse off do you think?

For my 2c; I think they should have stood back & let it run it's course no matter how good or bad it was going to be.
But we all know that the AFL don't work that way.

Every player should have had independent advice for starters.

And copped the minor punishment offered because it was clearly generous.
 

Squeaky

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Ultimately I don't think it would have changed the outcome. The time frame may have been a little different.
That is part of what I am getting at...
Overall, if left to their own devices the players would have been better off in a fully independent, arms length Asada investigation without the 'help' of the AFL.
The time frame, anonymity/privacy and ultimately the result (as a whole) would have been better for the 34 players affected if the AFL were made to butt out and leave it be.
 
Jan 19, 2008
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That is part of what I am getting at...
Overall, if left to their own devices the players would have been better off in a fully independent, arms length Asada investigation without the 'help' of the AFL.
The time frame, anonymity/privacy and ultimately the result (as a whole) would have been better for the 34 players affected if the AFL were made to butt out and leave it be.

Yes probably after the initial stages - but without the AFL tipping you off I am tipping you would have been genuinely farked.
 
Mar 21, 2016
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Yes probably after the initial stages - but without the AFL tipping you off I am tipping you would have been genuinely farked.
giphy.gif
 

Squeaky

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Yes probably after the initial stages - but without the AFL tipping you off I am tipping you would have been genuinely farked.

But the players were farked anyway - so they would have been better off in the big picture because it was drawn out so much. Also don't forget that the AFL & ASADA thought they were going to find things like CJC (body builder steroids) & stuff but found nothing of the sort - hence the AOD bullshit that followed for months.
 

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