2nds The SANFL Thread

[WaynesWorld19]

The issue I had watching Riley's game, is that whilst he was decent, there wasn't really anything he did to separate himself from the pack. Sure he's a very good footballer at SANFL level and I certainly don't think he's hopeless at AFL level either from what I've seen. I just think midfielders at AFL level need to be able to separate themselves from the pack..

Like Kerridge???

 

[Allefgib]

Craig's time was up, there was little doubt about that, however that doesn't mean he was a hopeless coach. Sando I think has some outstanding qualities as a coach, however there's also some deficiencies in his coaching too that I think we need to address by improving the assistant coaching support structure around him.

Only people ranting and fed up said he was hopeless.
Most of those were ott but did call out his deficiencies that held him back from delivering the ultimate success.
One being he probably wasn't flexible enough to grow in the role.
Like Sando now needs to.

I'm backing sando in at this point.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Sando has 12 months from this point.

If we get to the bye round next year and we are still playing the same crap players - and we are not in the top 6, I'm going to call for his position to be looked at.

If we have a clean out and have a very young team, he will get another 18 months from that point.

 

[WAG]

Only people ranting and fed up said he was hopeless.
Most of those were ott but did call out his deficiencies that held him back from delivering the ultimate success.
One being he probably wasn't flexible enough to grow in the role.
Like Sando now needs to.

I'm backing sando in at this point.

It'll be interesting to see how things change on match day when Bailey returns.

What round is Bailey due back? Must be soon......

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

It'll be interesting to see how things change on match day when Bailey returns.

What round is Bailey due back? Must be soon......

Round 16 or 17

 

[WAG]

Round 16 or 17

Well that sure taught Melbourne a lesson!

 

[brucetiki]

Well that sure taught Melbourne a lesson!

Melbourne are getting their punishment now - having Neil Craig as coach

 

[Vader]

If we see Brad Crouch, Mitchell Gregg, Jarrod Lyons, Sam Kerridge, Rory Laird and the injured pair in Sam Shaw and Lewis Johnson as a long term players at our football club, I feel it is essential that they play anywhere between 5 and 8 of the remaining 10 games.

This will give them a very good taste of what AFL football is all about and then over the summer the coaches MUST push each and every single one of those boys and make it known to them that he has to earn there place. This season is gone, therefore, lets get something out of it by giving him and a few others a good taste of it.

Interesting call. I see LJ as being a likely delisting at the end of this year. Shaw is contracted for 2014, but would want to get his body injury free for a sustained period or he too may find himself on the scrapheap sooner rather than later - not through lack of talent, but because his body is just too fragile.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Interesting call. I see LJ as being a likely delisting at the end of this year. Shaw is contracted for 2014, but would want to get his body injury free for a sustained period or he too may find himself on the scrapheap sooner rather than later - not through lack of talent, but because his body is just too fragile.

Look, in a year we have lost our first and second round draft pick we will not be delisting a SANFL 60 goal key forward who can play forward and back. If you think we will, you clearly don't have a clue of what our squads needs really are.

Also, Ben Rutten has 2 years left max, We don't have a ready made replacement and the closest we could have, would be to send Talia to full back with Johnson to CHB or to upgrade Hartigan from the rookie list. Sam Siggins isn't ready and won't be ready for AFL football until this time next year and Sam Shaw body may not hold up.

Lewis Johnson won't be delisted.

 

[Vader]

Look, in a year we have lost our first and second round draft pick we will not be delisting a SANFL 60 goal key forward who can play forward and back. If you think we will, you clearly don't have a clue of what our squads needs really are.

I know where you're coming from.. but I see a player who was rejected by the Swans and who seems to be on the outer at Adelaide as well. LJ never even came into the equation when they went looking for Walker's replacement - it was JJ & McKernan all the way down the line. I don't know what it is about him that gets the coaches so badly offside, but whatever it is he's done it at two clubs. For a player to be in his 5th year in the AFL (originally drafted by Sydney in 2008), having played just 3 AFL games.. let's just say that he won't be getting too many more opportunities.

Also, Ben Rutten has 2 years left max, We don't have a ready made replacement and the closest we could have, would be to send Talia to full back with Johnson to CHB or to upgrade Hartigan from the rookie list. Sam Siggins isn't ready and won't be ready for AFL football until this time next year and Sam Shaw body may not hold up.

Once again, I get where you're coming from - and I agree about the situation regarding our alternatives. That doesn't change the fact that Shaw is now in his 4th season on our list and has spent roughly 85% of that time on the injury list, with one soft tissue problem after another. His talent is not in doubt - his longevity is. At some stage they're going to have to decide when enough is enough. They let Hentschel go on a year too long, will they make the same mistake with Shaw? Shaw is contracted for 2014 and I think he's safe at the end of 2013, but 2014 will be a make or break year for him - stay fit, or face the axe.

Lewis Johnson won't be delisted.

I'd say he's a 50-50 proposition at best. Tambling, Johncock & Joyce are probably the only players ahead of him on the chopping list right now. Riley would be player #4 on the chopping block.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Wasn't rejected by the swans - they told him they wanted him to stay and ultimately the decision was his and be chose to come back to the Crows.

Tambling, johncock, Callihan, will be the 3 delisting s and then a few trades fir picks to get Laird and Hartigan onto the senior list.

I'd suggest Lewis Johnson delisting is more lie 85-15 he stays on the list.

 

[Vader]

I'd have money on LJ being delisted before Callinan. Callinan is currently in the 22. LJ has never even looked like breaking into the 22.

Sydney might not have rejected him.. but neither did they fight for him when Adelaide came knocking and they'd only given him 2 games in 3 years, indicating his true value to them.

Agree that Laird's upgrade is pretty much guaranteed. I'm not so sure about Hartigan. My money says he's a 2014 upgrade.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

I'd have money on LJ being delisted before Callinan. Callinan is currently in the 22. LJ has never even looked like breaking into the 22.

Sydney might not have rejected him.. but neither did they fight for him when Adelaide came knocking and they'd only given him 2 games in 3 years, indicating his true value to them.

Agree that Laird's upgrade is pretty much guaranteed. I'm not so sure about Hartigan. My money says he's a 2014 upgrade.

And if that happens, I'd have money on us having a new coach for the 2015 season.

If he knowingly delists a KPP and keeps a 31 year old small forward and we have another poor year, he will officially be worst than Neil Craig.

 

[Geoffa32]

Can't see either Callinan or Johnston being delisted.


Johnston will be insurance for Walker if he struggles in his comeback year from his knee. As Vader points out, Callinan is playing now.

 

[Cap]

Interesting call. I see LJ as being a likely delisting at the end of this year. Shaw is contracted for 2014, but would want to get his body injury free for a sustained period or he too may find himself on the scrapheap sooner rather than later - not through lack of talent, but because his body is just too fragile.

I haven't seen enough of LJ to make a call.

I realise you say 5 years in the system, but hasn't he had a few injuries? I guess you have to ask your self two questions - how many 22 year olds consistently play AFL as a KPF and how many 22 year olds who have played stuff all games in 5 years make it?

readings around the place it appears in his first 3 years he was consistently injured?

 

[Vader]

And if that happens, I'd have money on us having a new coach for the 2015 season.

If he knowingly delists a KPP and keeps a 31 year old small forward and we have another poor year, he will officially be worst than Neil Craig.

Yeah.. nah. Delisting a player who manages just 3 games in 5 years isn't rocket science - it's good list management. Successive coaches haven't deemed him good enough for AFL selection, so there's not a whole lot of logic to keeping him on the list. The fact that he's a KPP forward is largely irrelevant given the inherent assumption that he's not AFL standard.

As for Callinan.. It depends on how many players the club wants to turn over at the end of the year. Last year we only took 2 new draftees in the ND and just one in the RD. This has lead to a significant build-up of dead wood on our list and I'd like to see more players moved on this year.. but the Tiprat penalties may put paid to that.

Truth be told, Callinan's position is fairly safe this year. Johncock, Tambling, Joyce, LJ & Riley would all be ahead of him on the chopping block. I'd have Jaensch & Martin next in the queue, though both have contracts for 2014. Porps may or may not be on our list next year, given that he hasn't had a contract offer yet and is an unrestricted free agent. Then there's the likelihood that Otten & (more likely) McKernan will ask to be traded. Given those likely movements - and the lack of draft picks - I'd suggest that the odds of Callinan being delisted would be fairly remote. I'm not stating this as a definite "will not happen", but I'd say that the odds would be heavily against it.

I haven't seen enough of LJ to make a call.

I realise you say 5 years in the system, but hasn't he had a few injuries? I guess you have to ask your self two questions - how many 22 year olds consistently play AFL as a KPF and how many 22 year olds who have played stuff all games in 5 years make it?

readings around the place it appears in his first 3 years he was consistently injured?

Possibly a few.. but he's no Sam Shaw. According to the AFL Record Guide, he didn't miss any games due to injury last year - he played one game, was on the emergency list for one other, and spent the rest of the year in the SANFL. He's missed a few this year, breaking his leg just 2 weeks after Walker blew his knee. That said, he didn't appear to be in the selection committee's calculations for replacing Walker even before the injury.

I get the "big guys take longer to develop" thing.. but 3 games in 5 years is pushing things just a little bit. Most of them show something at AFL level, enough that the clubs persist with playing them at the highest level, until they finally have that break out season. LJ has rarely seemed close to selection (being named on the emergency list just once last year). He really doesn't fit the model of the late developing KPP terribly well. The best that can be said of him is that he has fired in the SANFL.

 

[jackster83]

I agree with most of those player movements Vader.

I'd go with:
Johncock
Tambling
Joyce
one of Martin/Jaensch

(If we don't get a FA, we might as well tell Graham to take a hike too)

LT, LJ and Riley get another year due to our lack of draft picks.

 

[Vader]

The only reason why I think Riley is more likely to go than Martin & Jaensch is that the latter pair have contracts for 2014. Riley does not. I would be quite happy to see all three get turfed.

 

[cmndstab]

I don't imagine Johnston will be delisted, but he may start shopping himself around. His SANFL performances and the argument that he was "behind Tex, then injured", make him a mildly attractive proposition for a cheap pick. He is just now reaching the age where he will be looking to hit his form.

I agree with the schools of thought that say that Craig was a good coach, but one who had run out of things to offer the Adelaide Crows a fair while before he was sacked. Sanderson is also a good coach, and time will tell whether he has enough to offer us to go from being a good coach to a great coach.

 

[Vader]

I don't imagine Johnston will be delisted, but he may start shopping himself around. His SANFL performances and the argument that he was "behind Tex, then injured", make him a mildly attractive proposition for a cheap pick. He is just now reaching the age where he will be looking to hit his form.

I agree with the schools of thought that say that Craig was a good coach, but one who had run out of things to offer the Adelaide Crows a fair while before he was sacked. Sanderson is also a good coach, and time will tell whether he has enough to offer us to go from being a good coach to a great coach.

Who's going to be interested in a player who has been in the system for 5 years, already passed through 2 clubs, playing a grand total of just 3 AFL games? If he doesn't make it at Adelaide, then his AFL career will be over. More to the point, if he doesn't undergo a massive reversal of fortune when he returns from injury then his career may well be over at the end of this year.

 

[cmndstab]

Who's going to be interested in a player who has been in the system for 5 years, already passed through 2 clubs, playing a grand total of just 3 AFL games? If he doesn't make it at Adelaide, then his AFL career will be over. More to the point, if he doesn't undergo a massive reversal of fortune when he returns from injury then his career may well be over at the end of this year.

I can see a club throwing a rookie pick at him. Former first round pick, strong league form, at a club that has arguably the best player in the comp in his position ahead of him, and unfortunately injured right as opportunities opened up.

I can't imagine anyone will bother trading for him, but a late rookie pick? I wouldn't be at all surprised.


Giles is a decent comparison. Spent years on the Port list and never managed a game. However some strong league form and suddenly other clubs were interested, even though he had failed to impact at AFL level to that point. Johnston's work up forward in the SANFL over the last 15 months has been very strong.

 

[Vader]

I can see a club throwing a rookie pick at him. Former first round pick, strong league form, at a club that has arguably the best player in the comp in his position ahead of him, and unfortunately injured right as opportunities opened up.

Adam Richardson won 4x Ken Farmer medals, for being the top goal scorer in the SANFL - including one season where he kicked 100+ goals in a season. His AFL career lasted precisely 2 games. I see LJ going down this path.

I'm not convinced that any other club would be fooled by the "unfortunately injured right as opportunities opened up" line. The fact is that he wasn't even considered when Tex got injured - Lynch, McKernan and JJ were all promoted ahead of him, with LJ never even making the emergency list.

I can't imagine anyone will bother trading for him, but a late rookie pick? I wouldn't be at all surprised.

A late rookie pick.. I suppose it's possible. Not likely.. but possible.

Giles is a decent comparison. Spent years on the Port list and never managed a game. However some strong league form and suddenly other clubs were interested, even though he had failed to impact at AFL level to that point. Johnston's work up forward in the SANFL over the last 15 months has been very strong.

At least Giles is only at his 2nd club.. LJ would be looking to be selected by a 3rd. I just don't see any clubs being interested.

 

[J_Moore]

...reading around the place it appears in his first 3 years he was consistently injured?

Combination of injury (principally a stress fracture in his foot) and attitude (he was considered lazy).

 

[Team DJ]

fair dinkum, Blokes on here need to firmly pull their head in. I don't know what more they expect an 18 year old to do,

Delisting Johnstone. PLEASE!!!!
Johncock Callinan Tambling Porplyzia and Joyce are all ahead of him to go.
With others on the trading block. Jaensch Martin Riley Otten
When we get an extra small or two in the offseason Callinan and Porp will "Retire".
They are only "Best 22" through lack of no one else. Johnstone is a potential Scott Stevens swingman type for us I feel. We wont give on him just yeat.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

I know where you're coming from.. but I see a player who was rejected by the Swans and who seems to be on the outer at Adelaide as well. LJ never even came into the equation when they went looking for Walker's replacement - it was JJ & McKernan all the way down the line. I don't know what it is about him that gets the coaches so badly offside, but whatever it is he's done it at two clubs. For a player to be in his 5th year in the AFL (originally drafted by Sydney in 2008), having played just 3 AFL games.. let's just say that he won't be getting too many more opportunities.

Once again, I get where you're coming from - and I agree about the situation regarding our alternatives. That doesn't change the fact that Shaw is now in his 4th season on our list and has spent roughly 85% of that time on the injury list, with one soft tissue problem after another. His talent is not in doubt - his longevity is. At some stage they're going to have to decide when enough is enough. They let Hentschel go on a year too long, will they make the same mistake with Shaw? Shaw is contracted for 2014 and I think he's safe at the end of 2013, but 2014 will be a make or break year for him - stay fit, or face the axe.

I'd say he's a 50-50 proposition at best. Tambling, Johncock & Joyce are probably the only players ahead of him on the chopping list right now. Riley would be player #4 on the chopping block.

You don't know this is right. Yes McKernan got the nod at selection the week after Walker went down, but you don't know how close that call was. Johnston got injured the very next week so we will never know.

I'm not saying Johnston will or won't be delisted (my gut says we retain him for now, but he's pretty close to the edge), but it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that McKernan was well in front of him in the pecking order at the time Walker went down. All we know is that he was in front that particular week. In fact, I'd suggest if Walker went down a week earlier (before McKernan kicked 5 against Sturt in the SANFL), Johnston would have been his replacement as McKernan had done nothing at SANFL level prior to that week.