They were trying to get him into some form by playing in the SANFL. And it worked to a degree. I think he had a 30 odd touch game and was subsequently brought back in. Being an emergency doesn't make you a best 25 player.
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2nds The SANFL Thread
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He was emergency nearly every single week he didn't make the 22.
He had some very good games as a forward including a couple bags of 4. His midfield form was down on last year's efforts possibly because we squeezed the captain into the role Wright excelled at last year.
I don't think Lyons was nearly as bad as you insist on repeatedly claiming, Vader, but I agree that Wright was well and truly out of favour by the end of 2013. It's sad, because he was one of our real shining lights last year. Can he get back to that level?
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I'm not sure what to make of Wright. My first impression of him was that he was a relatively limited footballer (albeit better than Petrenko), who was just marking time in the team until someone better came along. I was forced to revise that estimate last year when he played some really good football.
This year he went backwards at the speed of light. I list him as one of the victims of the Sando Stink - along with VB, Reilly, Mackay, Jacobs, Thompson & Porplyzia.
Can he get back to his best? I'm not even sure if that's a relevant question, given that he's now been overtaken by so many of the kids - Crouch, Grigg, Laird & Brown all have him well & truly covered. He's probably on par with Kerridge (still ahead of Lyons). Even if he does return to his best, I'm not sure that he'd be able to displace any of those kids from the team, which makes finding a position in the 22 that much harder. His task becomes even more difficult if we land players like Betts & Polec during the off-season.
As for Lyons, I don't think he's a bad footballer. I think he'll have an excellent state league career, probably playing 200+ games at that level, maybe even winning awards at that level. With the weapons he has, there is no doubt he can excel at that level of competition. However, the gulf between the state leagues and the AFL is big and growing. AFL players are bigger, stronger and faster than their part-time counterparts in the state leagues. That's where Lyons' problems lie.
I think that his limitations as a player will become too exposed at AFL level for him to succeed in that particular competition. Lyons was taken late in the draft for very good reasons. The odds of a player taken that late being as good as Lyons are relatively remote. He is what he is and he isn't what he isn't. I'm not trying to bag him or say that he's a spud, I'm just making what I believe to be a realistic assessment of his future as an AFL player.
This year he went backwards at the speed of light. I list him as one of the victims of the Sando Stink - along with VB, Reilly, Mackay, Jacobs, Thompson & Porplyzia.
Can he get back to his best? I'm not even sure if that's a relevant question, given that he's now been overtaken by so many of the kids - Crouch, Grigg, Laird & Brown all have him well & truly covered. He's probably on par with Kerridge (still ahead of Lyons). Even if he does return to his best, I'm not sure that he'd be able to displace any of those kids from the team, which makes finding a position in the 22 that much harder. His task becomes even more difficult if we land players like Betts & Polec during the off-season.
As for Lyons, I don't think he's a bad footballer. I think he'll have an excellent state league career, probably playing 200+ games at that level, maybe even winning awards at that level. With the weapons he has, there is no doubt he can excel at that level of competition. However, the gulf between the state leagues and the AFL is big and growing. AFL players are bigger, stronger and faster than their part-time counterparts in the state leagues. That's where Lyons' problems lie.
I think that his limitations as a player will become too exposed at AFL level for him to succeed in that particular competition. Lyons was taken late in the draft for very good reasons. The odds of a player taken that late being as good as Lyons are relatively remote. He is what he is and he isn't what he isn't. I'm not trying to bag him or say that he's a spud, I'm just making what I believe to be a realistic assessment of his future as an AFL player.
jackster83
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I hope North get up over West this week. The Grand Final deserves a better spectacle than the crap that Andy Collins dishes up against Norwood. North have some decent ball users in Thiele and Shannon and of course LJ up forward.
It is an interesting concept to explore really, you only have to look at the hype over Grigg following his performances in the SANFL, which can be shot down with things like " Symes won a magarey"
I think the real difficulty in assessing players based on SANFL form and award nights is that 3 votes in a medal or BOG can only be that, they can't be compared - for instance, I'd dare say the majority of 3 vote games Abblett got in the Brownlow were better 3 vote games than other players - but they both got 3 votes - the same can be said for BOG.
Jaensch is a similar story, gets 30 touches, but his 30 touches just aren't of the standard of Griggs at SANFL level.
I'm curious, what do you think makes a "weapon" in the AFL?
A "weapon" is something that sets a player apart from his peers. It might be the ability to kick the ball long & accurately (Jaensch's only weapon), or the strength to win the contested ball. Players like Dangerfield are blessed because they have multiple weapons - in his case, elite speed, acceleration and strength, his kicking is also good when he has time to slow down and concentrate on the disposal.
Lyons has the ability to read the contest and win the ball in congestion. That makes him valuable at centre clearances. Unfortunately, he lacks pace and endurance and his kicking is woeful. That means he doesn't get to enough contests to impact the game and when he does it's a chook raffle as to where the ball ends up. He can get away with the lack of speed & endurance at SANFL level, where the players are slower and less fit - it's only a problem that gets exposed at the elite level.
Grigg has excellent kicking skills and decision making. Those are two valuable weapons. His pace is not elite by any stretch, but his ability to make the correct decision quickly more than counters that minor problem. Endurance does not appear to be an issue (which it is for Lyons). I would like to see what Grigg's kicking is like with his right foot - this season he got away with murder because the opposition weren't aware that he was a left foot kicker, how will he cope once they start corralling him onto his right? If his right foot disposal is acceptable, then I would forecast a bright future. If it's poor, then he may struggle once the opposition start paying a bit more attention.
Vader, an excellent post. One point however. You say lack of pace is a minor problem. Lack of pace is a major problem to any sportsperson aiming high. But as you rightly point out, the players in this catagory overcome that with other abilities that make them productive. These abilities are obviously so good to allow them to perform.
Grigg is a perfect example.
Grigg is a perfect example.
I assume you mean peers at non-AFL level, because in reality, there are only so many attributes an AFL player can have.
I find your summation of Grigg very interesting, I agree that his left foot is a clear weapon, as is his decision making, but I think his spatial awareness or footy smarts (yeah I know complete wank words) on a football field is by far his biggest weapon.
As you say it has only been 1 season and not a hell of a lot of pressure from the opposition, but along with Crouch, Rutten and Walker, Grigg appears to have the footy smarts that allow him to emphasise his kicking and decision making ability to greater degree than other players.
You can see that in his SANFL performances and it was nearly exactly the same as Walker in his early years, people would often complain that Walker kicked goals whilst not being manned up, but Walkers talent was that he knew how to get time and space and you can’t see that on the telly, it was something he was really starting to excel at in the AFL prior to injury.
I’m not suggesting Lyons doesn’t have footy smarts, I just don’t think he has it to the level of Grigg, hence his decision making and disposal is viewed as worse. Sadly, Bernie Vince appears to be the beneficiary of elite footy smarts, just doesn’t appear to have the desire to take full advantage.
On that note, I’ve never really been too fazed by opposite kicking, if you are good enough 99% of your kicks are going to be on your primary leg.
It is interesting to look through our list and question what “weapons” some blokes have, if you really look critically, it doesn’t really look that good.
I'm not so worried about where Lyons was taken in the draft. I'm just interested in what he can bring to our side.
His fitness isn't great, but it's not as bad as you're making out Vader. It's not a dire weakness.
I agree his skill set is in distributing the ball form a clearance, and his kicking is a weakness, but players with that skills profile have succeeded well at AFL level, Sam Mitchell being a prominent example.
Generally I'd rather just watch a player play and figure out how he'll go from there, rather than trying to match their skill set up with an AFL position on paper. The few games Lyons played, he seemed more than capable at AFL level. He was an asset to our midfield more often than not, and brought some weapons we are lacking.
I don't think he's a certainty to make it by any stretch, but I would say he's more likely than not to be a reasonable AFL player.
His fitness isn't great, but it's not as bad as you're making out Vader. It's not a dire weakness.
I agree his skill set is in distributing the ball form a clearance, and his kicking is a weakness, but players with that skills profile have succeeded well at AFL level, Sam Mitchell being a prominent example.
Generally I'd rather just watch a player play and figure out how he'll go from there, rather than trying to match their skill set up with an AFL position on paper. The few games Lyons played, he seemed more than capable at AFL level. He was an asset to our midfield more often than not, and brought some weapons we are lacking.
I don't think he's a certainty to make it by any stretch, but I would say he's more likely than not to be a reasonable AFL player.
mcday
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I really like the look of Hartigan, but I think it's still too early to make a judgement on him, especially one as massive as saying he could replace Rutten. He didn't have a full game against a really good forward, if I remember correctly. It was very promising that he was able to find a bit of that ball as well, in stark contrast to Talia and, for the most part, Rutten. Hopefully he plays about 15 games this year, and his future is clearer.
Wait, why does Wright finishing in the top 25 in the BnF make him a top 25 player, but then Hartigan, who didn't finish in the best 22, is a best 22 player?
Wright started out in our best 25, even our best 22, playing the first 8 games before being dropped. He came back and played another batch of 4 games before again being dropped - only to reappear in R22, by which stage our injury list was so long that we were down to players in the 30s in the pecking order.
He played 17 games this year, which is largely why he finished in the top-25 in the B&F. 14 players played more, 18 players played less (JJ & Lynch also played 17 games). If you play that many games, you're almost always going to finish ahead of players who played half as many games (Smack was our 25th player this year, in terms of games played, with 9).
I have no doubt that he started the season in our top 22. By the end of the season, it's highly debatable as to whether he was even in our top-30. That's what I'm judging him on - where he is at right now, at the end of the season. Where he started the season was largely based on his 2012 performances, which were vastly superior to what he achieved in 2013.
As for Hartigan.. what his future holds is anyone's guess. He may make it, he may not. It's way too early to tell. So far the signs look encouraging. In 2013 he was never in our top-25. He was given a few games as a sighter towards the end of the season, but that's as far as it goes. Will he be a future top-22 player? Quite possibly. Will he end up on the scrapheap? I wouldn't rule out that possibility either. It's just too early to tell right now.
So who will play the Redlegs next week ?
North i hope so LJ can get BOG
North i hope so LJ can get BOG
So who will play the Redlegs next week ?
North i hope so LJ can get BOG
Everyone who isn't a West fan should be going for North because West win tomorrow guarantees a boring, one-sided grand final next week. If we win and are at our best next week then it could be a cracker.
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North should beat West from what i have seen
Boo. Is there a don't like button?
Marine Boy
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You should be concerned with winning this week before you need to worry about how good you will be next week.
I've been a Roosters fan my whole life so I never assume we're going to win. Was just saying which result today would be better for the neutral supporters.
How often has 5th made the Grand Final?
There's the famous 1984 Norwood premiership from 5th, the only time a team has won it, but how often has 5th even just made it to the GF?
There's the famous 1984 Norwood premiership from 5th, the only time a team has won it, but how often has 5th even just made it to the GF?
