The selectors

[King Elvis]

He wasn't rested, he was dropped.

And one Test (in fact, basically one innings) is hardly enough time for him to get into the groove over there.

to get back to the thread, those selectors got it bang on dropping lyon for maxwell!

I can't tell of you're being sarcastic or not?

They made over 500.

 

[BACCS]

I have a feeling Lyon will be back next Test. From the media release coming out, it seems Lyon was dropped so he could work in the nets on his bowling away from the scrutiny of playing. Obviously the selectors wanted to see how Doherty would go in India, seeing as they took such a massive gamble picking him. Lyon for Maxwell will be the change for next Test.

 

[Ill Chicken]

I have a feeling Lyon will be back next Test. From the media release coming out, it seems Lyon was dropped so he could work in the nets on his bowling away from the scrutiny of playing. Obviously the selectors wanted to see how Doherty would go in India, seeing as they took such a massive gamble picking him. Lyon for Maxwell will be the change for next Test.

It's not a massive gamble taking a squad of players overseas. It is massive gamble dropping a competent spinner for a lesser one when the series is still there to be won.

 

[Slax]

Behind the scenes politics is not a media statement.

If you want to believe that internal politics was the reason for his retirement and not family then do so, but come up with evidence rather than just uneducated statements. Go and have a family of 4 young children, know that you have a wife at home raising them whilst you are living out of a suitcase for 7-8 months a year. Realise that your oldest child is now 8 years old and you've missed a lot of the milestones in their life up to now and know that you will miss more of them with the others including a new born.

Get off you bullshit horse and look at the fact more and more people in society are chosing family over careers. It takes a massive toll on your personal life to be required to travel so much and you reach a point where you just have to say no because the costs become too high. Yes another Ashes campaign would've been great but it would've required him to be away for almost 6 months straight. Family has much more influence on decisions than internal politics.

 

[Slax]

Unless part of the reason he pulled the pin was a personality clash... Huss said her wanted to play the next Ashes, never gave a hint of retiring just yet - then Ponting goes, and he pulls the pin soon after.

Sometimes something happens in life an you stop and re-evaluate your own life. Willing to bet there were long conversations between the two before the announcement. Ponting found that the goal of the Ashes a bridge too far and it would've been a wake-up call to Hussey. You get one real chance to walk on your own terms, Ponting didn't take his 12 months ago and got the tap on the shoulder, Hussey took his, the only problem is that many didn't see it coming because so few have taken that path over the last 20 years.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Lets just hope these goons don't think Maxwell is now a frontline spinner. He may have bowled ok but anyone who has a clue knows he should never have been picked to begin with. He either has to be a number 6 capable of averaging 40 with the bat who bowls or not in the team.

 

[Team DJ]

Lets just hope these goons don't think Maxwell is now a frontline spinner. He may have bowled ok but anyone who has a clue knows he should never have been picked to begin with. He either has to be a number 6 capable of averaging 40 with the bat who bowls or not in the team.

Jason Krezja Thread also

 

[Hellgood]

If you want to believe that internal politics was the reason for his retirement and not family then do so, but come up with evidence rather than just uneducated statements. Go and have a family of 4 young children, know that you have a wife at home raising them whilst you are living out of a suitcase for 7-8 months a year. Realise that your oldest child is now 8 years old and you've missed a lot of the milestones in their life up to now and know that you will miss more of them with the others including a new born.

Get off you bullshit horse and look at the fact more and more people in society are chosing family over careers. It takes a massive toll on your personal life to be required to travel so much and you reach a point where you just have to say no because the costs become too high. Yes another Ashes campaign would've been great but it would've required him to be away for almost 6 months straight. Family has much more influence on decisions than internal politics.

So you haven't seen/don't agree with the Hussey-Clarke boat story? I have heard that one from quite a few people that I believe would know, including a first class cricketer.

 

[Gough]

So you haven't seen/don't agree with the Hussey-Clarke boat story? I have heard that one from quite a few people that I believe would know, including a first class cricketer.

When you're not winning this sort of shit comes out, the dressing was probably a more fractious place during the 00s (hi Warney if your reading this) with all those massive egos in housed in one place but they steam rolled everything in sight so nobody gave a shit. That this happened is not in itself concerning, that it has leaked is probably symbolic of the dissatisfaction at the moment.

 

[Phone]

It's not a massive gamble taking a squad of players overseas. It is massive gamble dropping a competent spinner for a lesser one when the series is still there to be won.

that's all well and good but lyon in his current state isn't a competent spinner

 

[jc37]

I actually think Maxwell works well provided either Henriques or Watson are in the team bowling as they can both build pressure up one end and contain something I dont think he is ready for. I think Lyon and Hauritz are more complete bowlers who can usually contain but they lack what Maxwell has and that is to really make the ball spin. He should have had 5 wickets in the first innings had Cowan not dropped a catch at short leg and all the batsman he got out were proper bats. I think he bowls too short but potentially I think he could be our first real match winning off spinner since Bruce Yardley. He is going to be more dangerous trying to bowl us to victory than a Lyon, Hauritz or Doherty. Given our batting is brittle him coming in at 8 could be what we need for the Ashes as our spinning option. Maybe even 7 with 4 quicks (our strength at present). The balance he provides could be the thing we need to give us a chance of winning back the Ashes.

 

[Ill Chicken]

If you want to believe that internal politics was the reason for his retirement and not family then do so, but come up with evidence rather than just uneducated statements. Go and have a family of 4 young children, know that you have a wife at home raising them whilst you are living out of a suitcase for 7-8 months a year. Realise that your oldest child is now 8 years old and you've missed a lot of the milestones in their life up to now and know that you will miss more of them with the others including a new born.

Get off you bullshit horse and look at the fact more and more people in society are chosing family over careers. It takes a massive toll on your personal life to be required to travel so much and you reach a point where you just have to say no because the costs become too high. Yes another Ashes campaign would've been great but it would've required him to be away for almost 6 months straight. Family has much more influence on decisions than internal politics.

So blah blah and then it comes to the crunch and uses family as a crutch. No shit.

 

[Ill Chicken]

that's all well and good but lyon in his current state isn't a competent spinner

In comparison to Doherty and Maxwell, yes he is.

 

[King Elvis]

Pretty funny.

Not a surprise, at all, but pretty funny.

 

[Phone]

In comparison to Doherty and Maxwell, yes he is.

he really isn't. he's no better. but with the knowledge he could be much better if he gets his shit together (and given it's been 5 months, he probably isn't about to all of a sudden get better without heavy intervention)

 

[frankrizzo]

he really isn't. he's no better.

So you think after 20 tests maxwell or doherty would have an average of 32 or better?

If they did would you be happy if they were dumped with figures like that?

 

[Phone]

So you think after 20 tests maxwell or doherty would have an average of 32 or better?

like how you left out 'but with the knowledge he could be much better if he gets his shit together '. Lyon is in terrible form. He has been all summer. His past record means nothing. He hasn't been dropped because of that. He's been dropped because he averaged 71 in 5 shield games, going at 3.8 an over over 153 overs and averaged 45 in his last 7 tests (an average that flatters him. his shield average is more or less fair for how he bowled) and failed on day 5 twice andfrequently looked unlikely to take wickets (unless bowling against the tail). Lyon in his current state is useless. I don't see how you can have faith in throwing him the ball. You don't even have faith that today might be the day he all of a sudden gets better, because it's been happening for 5 months now. You had two options, drop him and try work on things and make him better, or play him and watch him go for 150 runs in 25-30 overs and not make the team anymore likely to win. I think trying to improve him was the better way to go. I repeat, Nathan Lyon has been in shit form for a prolonged period of time. We missed the good Nathan Lyon in this test. We missed it all summer.

 

[MisterMarcus]

I reckon the logic behind Maxwell is that we want to go in with 4 quicks in England: Patto, Sids, Bird and Starc.

So Maxwell is being groomed as the psuedo all rounder/part time spinner that can support the 4 quicks while (in theory) strengthening our batting line up.

Not saying I agree with it, but I am sure that's the plan....

 

[Mateyman]

like how you left out 'but with the knowledge he could be much better if he gets his shit together '. Lyon is in terrible form. He has been all summer. His past record means nothing. He hasn't been dropped because of that. He's been dropped because he averaged 71 in 5 shield games, going at 3.8 an over over 153 overs and averaged 45 in his last 7 tests (an average that flatters him. his shield average is more or less fair for how he bowled) and failed on day 5 twice andfrequently looked unlikely to take wickets (unless bowling against the tail). Lyon in his current state is useless. I don't see how you can have faith in throwing him the ball. You don't even have faith that today might be the day he all of a sudden gets better, because it's been happening for 5 months now. You had two options, drop him and try work on things and make him better, or play him and watch him go for 150 runs in 25-30 overs and not make the team anymore likely to win. I think trying to improve him was the better way to go. I repeat, Nathan Lyon has been in shit form for a prolonged period of time. We missed the good Nathan Lyon in this test. We missed it all summer.

Having Wade drop all his chances "flattered him"

 

[Phone]

hmm yeah actually you make a good point it's all wade's fault

 

[Mateyman]

hmm yeah actually you make a good point it's all wade's fault

In no way did Lyon's average in test cricket "flatter him", when Wade dropped multiple chances of his. It wouldn't have been brought up unless you went on about Lyon's average flattering him

 

[Caesar]

Maxwell's not much better than a tailender against good test bowling though.

O'Keefe would be a better option if they want a spinner that can bat or even Agar.

No way, no how. I have my misgivings about Maxwell's suitability for the Test team but he is a much, much better first class batsman than O'Keefe.

 

[Phone]

In no way did Lyon's average in test cricket "flatter him", when Wade dropped multiple chances of his. It wouldn't have been brought up unless you went on about Lyon's average flattering him

It absolutely flatted him. He's not to blame for that, of course. But he simply did not bowl as well that average suggests. That average is partly inflated because a couple of times he got to come on and bowl when the seamers had already done the tough work and take cheap wickets against tailenders (doesn't get the same luxury in India). I'd say the 1st innings in Perth when he came onto bowl at 6/124 and dismissed 8, 9 & 11 and end with neat figures of 3/41, & the 1st innings at the MCG when the performance of the seamers allowed him to bowl two overs against proper batsmen (0/14), and end up taking 2/23, both tailenders, more than cancels out the effect Wade mistakes had on his average, and btw wicketkeeping mistakes also happen to be of an inevitable part of spin bowling, more so than getting to sit on your heels until the seamers have dismissed the top order batsmen anyway. Although Lyon has got to do a fair bit of that....

but his average was also partly flatting simply because his two biggest failures, the two day 5 failures, didn't actually dent his average all that much. Against SA that was 3/49, and 0/57 against SL. That results in an average of 35.3 over those two innings. Doesn't read that bad does it? But we all know how bad those results were. He didn't look like taking a wicket over large portions of those two innings, and that's not reflected in his average.

 

[Black Diamond]

Having Wade drop all his chances "flattered him"

hmm yeah actually you make a good point it's all wade's fault

Here is something I posted on the North board a few months ago regarding Lyon, Wade, and the resultant figures:

...BTW against Sri Lanka Lyon took a series total of 7 wickets at 43.9 and a strike rate of 84.5. If Wade takes two of the three regulation catches/stumpings he missed those figures become 9 wickets at 34.1 and a strike rate of 65.8.

I'll add though that in in what I saw of the first test v India Lyon lacked anything resembling control. I'm not sure that one test is enough to justify his dumping.

 

[Mateyman]

It absolutely flatted him. He's not to blame for that, of course. But he simply did not bowl as well that average suggests. That average is partly inflated because a couple of times he got to come on and bowl when the seamers had already done the tough work and take cheap wickets against tailenders (doesn't get the same luxury in India). I'd say the 1st innings in Perth when he came onto bowl at 6/124 and dismissed 8, 9 & 11 and end with neat figures of 3/41, & the 1st innings at the MCG when the performance of the seamers allowed him to bowl two overs against proper batsmen (0/14), and end up taking 2/23, both tailenders, more than cancels out the effect Wade mistakes had on his average, and btw wicketkeeping mistakes also happen to be of an inevitable part of spin bowling, more so than getting to sit on your heels until the seamers have dismissed the top order batsmen anyway. Although Lyon has got to do a fair bit of that....

but his average was also partly flatting simply because his two biggest failures, the two day 5 failures, didn't actually dent his average all that much. Against SA that was 3/49, and 0/57 against SL. That results in an average of 35.3 over those two innings. Doesn't read that bad does it? But we all know how bad those results were. He didn't look like taking a wicket over large portions of those two innings, and that's not reflected in his average.

On the flip side, he had at least as many chances dropped by Wade/Clarke as his tailend wickets. Also, maybe the reason that those 2 day 5 failures aren't damaging to his average is that the reason he took few wickets were because the batsmen weren't at all attacking.