The Serious News Thread

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Gralin

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No, I don't think we're vastly different to the rest of Australia but in my view it has got away from us via the quarantine facilities. That combines with some fairly lax social distancing and some carelessness by some family groups and here we are. Doesn't take much.

We don't have to cast our mind back very fair to recall the issues NSW had with Newmarch and the Ruby Princess. I see no reason why it couldn't happen up there again.

We didn't have the luxury of closing our borders.
And most people in hotel quarantine are here or NSW so we are more vulnerable to break downs in protocols with those quarantines
 

Hawk Dork

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On Sunday morning, the premier announced that returned travellers who refused coronavirus tests would now have to spend an extra 10 days staying at hotels, taking their total stay to 24 days.

But he also provided some explanation for revelations that around 30 per cent of returned travellers had been refusing tests, saying that many of them were young children, whose parents did not wish them to undergo uncomfortable nose and throat swabs.

Salvia tests are now being rolled out to all of those in hotel quarantine.

 

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Off The Couch

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And most people in hotel quarantine are here or NSW so we are more vulnerable to break downs in protocols with those quarantines
where does this rhetoric come from that Vic and NSW are the only states that have hotel quarantine - you may have more incoming flights but each state has quarantine hotels and you would of thought the protocols across each state would of been the same but obviously not
 

Gralin

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where does this rhetoric come from that Vic and NSW are the only states that have hotel quarantine - you may have more incoming flights but each state has quarantine hotels and you would of thought the protocols across each state would of been the same but obviously not
 

MightyHawks

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Incoming traveller Edward Ratanasena said it was a strange sight to be confronted with, at the end of a 37-hour journey home from Canada.

"There was a sense of fear, everyone looked a bit nervous, a bit scared. They didn't tell you where you were going, you just hopped on a bus," he said.

But he said disconcerted travellers were reassured by the help they received.

"They take your bags, they put them on the bus, they take them right up to your room for you," he said.

"If I had some Australian dollars I would have tipped them."

Wonderful thinking by Edward there, we'd love him to be handing out potentially virus contaminated cash to security personel...
 

Off The Couch

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I did say the two states may take more but others have also taken on incoming flights without the breakdown in protocols - although we did have one gentlemen “sneaking” out to visit his girlfriend - he ended up in jail
 

Gralin

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I did say the two states may take more but others have also taken on incoming flights without the breakdown in protocols - although we did have one gentlemen “sneaking” out to visit his girlfriend - he ended up in jail
And I said most of it is in Vic and NSW, not all of it.

The more you've got to deal with the greater the chance of a break down, as well as having positive cases in there.

That is all I was getting at.
 

tige19

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No, I don't think we're vastly different to the rest of Australia but in my view it has got away from us via the quarantine facilities. That combines with some fairly lax social distancing and some carelessness by some family groups and here we are. Doesn't take much.

We don't have to cast our mind back very fair to recall the issues NSW had with Newmarch and the Ruby Princess. I see no reason why it couldn't happen up there again.

We didn't have the luxury of closing our borders.
I agree. Quarantine has been a colossal stuff up, the standard of contractor used was the biggest issue along with the mooted % of people going back into the community without being tested.

Having known that to be the case, you can start to connect the dots as to how this has gotten away from us.
 

tige19

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On Sunday morning, the premier announced that returned travellers who refused coronavirus tests would now have to spend an extra 10 days staying at hotels, taking their total stay to 24 days.

But he also provided some explanation for revelations that around 30 per cent of returned travellers had been refusing tests, saying that many of them were young children, whose parents did not wish them to undergo uncomfortable nose and throat swabs.

Salvia tests are now being rolled out to all of those in hotel quarantine.

So Van Nuffy originally said 70% took up the test, DA now says that as much as 85% took the test and those that didn’t were little kids. You swallow lie after lie after lie lmfao, the whole bunch of them couldn’t lie straight in their beds.
 

Brishawk

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So do you think that Victorians are so vastly different to the rest of Australia in terms of social behaviours? I would have thought that the general population act in a similar fashion? People still shop, people still head to cafes and restaurants, people still gather in public places.

Something has gone a miss with the process here in Vic and we really don’t know why we are the outlier.

NSW also have a very multi linguistic state, people from all sects, so they have those challenges too.

It’s hard to wrap your head around.
Temperature, humidity, population density and sunlight. All different and beyond the control of governments and all affect the likelihood of transmission. Oh and don’t forget about luck 😉
 

tige19

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Incoming traveller Edward Ratanasena said it was a strange sight to be confronted with, at the end of a 37-hour journey home from Canada.

"There was a sense of fear, everyone looked a bit nervous, a bit scared. They didn't tell you where you were going, you just hopped on a bus," he said.

But he said disconcerted travellers were reassured by the help they received.

"They take your bags, they put them on the bus, they take them right up to your room for you," he said.

"If I had some Australian dollars I would have tipped them."

Wonderful thinking by Edward there, we'd love him to be handing out potentially virus contaminated cash to security personel...
Brilliant, absolutely smashing customer service.. let’s give DA and the health authorities a shiny participation ribbon 👍
 

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tige19

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Temperature, humidity, population density and sunlight. All different and beyond the control of governments and all affect the likelihood of transmission. Oh and don’t forget about luck 😉
Ok, so why has NSW handled the whole process after the RP so much better? Was that the wake up call they needed? Shouldn’t have DA heeded the warning?
 

Gralin

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So Van Nuffy originally said 70% took up the test, DA now says that as much as 85% took the test and those that didn’t were little kids. You swallow lie after lie after lie lmfao, the whole bunch of them couldn’t lie straight in their beds.
Are you in primary school or something?

We get it you don't believe anything the Vic government says.

Our breakdowns have dwarfed NSW, they got it right, we pissed ours up against the wall.
Ruby Princess and Newmarch both are still massive issues which you seem to want to ignore because you are upset about what is happening in Vic now.

Newmarch lead to 19 deaths and over 70 case
Ruby Princess was over 20 deaths and 700 cases and caused more cases all over Australia
They had the bondi beach outbreak which shows how hard it is for Governments to control this thing when people aren't doing the right thing

Ok, so why has NSW handled the whole process after the RP so much better? Was that the wake up call they needed? Shouldn’t have DA heeded the warning?
You can't stop human stupidity. Before Stepping down as Federal CMO this week Brendan Murphy said luck plays a large element in these things. What this outbreak in Vic shows is how quickly this can get away from you, especially when you don't know there has been a breach for a couple of weeks because of the lag between the event and the outbreak
 

Brishawk

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Ok, so why has NSW handled the whole process after the RP so much better? Was that the wake up call they needed? Shouldn’t have DA heeded the warning?
Who says they have handled anything better?

a ******* from Victoria who came to Queensland already infected came I to close contact with over 250 people before getting tested. By some sort of miracle no one got infected. That was just luck. Had he infected a couple of people along the way we could have a much different situation and Queensland could look like Victoria now.

if you go through the Victorian cases one by one, mostly it was one person breaking a protocol and ignoring advice to isolate and then going on to infect others. Several instances of people turning up to work sick and then passing it on to others. We are talking about about ten people triggering as many hotspots and it going from there. Slight shift in the probability of the first person in each hot spot giving it to others and Victoria looks like everywhere else. Your broad statements don’t really match the details of each case.
 

Gralin

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Who says they have handled anything better?

a ******* from Victoria who came to Queensland already infected came I to close contact with over 250 people before getting tested. By some sort of miracle no one got infected. That was just luck. Had he infected a couple of people along the way we could have a much different situation and Queensland could look like Victoria now.

if you go through the Victorian cases one by one, mostly it was one person breaking a protocol and ignoring advice to isolate and then going on to infect others. Several instances of people turning up to work sick and then passing it on to others. We are talking about about ten people triggering as many hotspots and it going from there. Slight shift in the probability of the first person in each hot spot giving it to others and Victoria looks like everywhere else. Your broad statements don’t really match the details of each case.
NSW had a quite a few school closures pretty quick after returning to school as well. There was the guy in Hobart who went to work at two different jobs after getting tested and before getting the results which were positive.

The couple who went holidaying around Tassie with it for two weeks causing a few pockets.

The common theme with people going to work seems to be casual workers who if they don't go to work don't get paid. Sick leave entitlements have been a massive driver for rule breaking around the country and around the world.
 

tige19

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Are you in primary school or something?

We get it you don't believe anything the Vic government says.


Ruby Princess and Newmarch both are still massive issues which you seem to want to ignore because you are upset about what is happening in Vic now.

Newmarch lead to 19 deaths and over 70 case
Ruby Princess was over 20 deaths and 700 cases and caused more cases all over Australia
They had the bondi beach outbreak which shows how hard it is for Governments to control this thing when people aren't doing the right thing


You can't stop human stupidity. Before Stepping down as Federal CMO this week Brendan Murphy said luck plays a large element in these things. What this outbreak in Vic shows is how quickly this can get away from you, especially when you don't know there has been a breach for a couple of weeks because of the lag between the event and the outbreak
Appropriate “Van Nuffy”, it’s applicable.

Since the RP fiasco NSW have done extremely well with cases, unfortunately like all viruses, once it gets to the elderly it can be fatal. That’s what we’ve seen.
 

tige19

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Who says they have handled anything better?

a ******* from Victoria who came to Queensland already infected came I to close contact with over 250 people before getting tested. By some sort of miracle no one got infected. That was just luck. Had he infected a couple of people along the way we could have a much different situation and Queensland could look like Victoria now.

if you go through the Victorian cases one by one, mostly it was one person breaking a protocol and ignoring advice to isolate and then going on to infect others. Several instances of people turning up to work sick and then passing it on to others. We are talking about about ten people triggering as many hotspots and it going from there. Slight shift in the probability of the first person in each hot spot giving it to others and Victoria looks like everywhere else. Your broad statements don’t really match the details of each case.
Victoria’s performed very poorly in comparison to other states, factually speaking that is. Not sure facts sit to well with some 🤷‍♂️
 

Brishawk

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The common theme with people going to work seems to be casual workers who if they don't go to work don't get paid. Sick leave entitlements have been a massive driver for rule breaking around the country and around the world.
The causal issue is frustrating. Several countries introduced sick leave for covid-19 for people not normally entitled to it. Some at the expense of employers and others at the expense of the state. It was an anticipated issue which the feds ignored.
 

Brishawk

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Victoria’s performed very poorly in comparison to other states, factually speaking that is. Not sure facts sit to well with some 🤷‍♂️
If you ignore everything contrary to your opinion, it is easy to make any claim. You claim the differences are due to competence but actually you ignore the causal chain of events that led to the current volume. If a person who has been instructed to isolate then goes and attends a family event with over 30 people, in what way is this caused be the handling of the government?
 

Off The Couch

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The causal issue is frustrating. Several countries introduced sick leave for covid-19 for people not normally entitled to it. Some at the expense of employers and others at the expense of the state. It was an anticipated issue which the feds ignored.
and something that needs to be reviewed going forward. While casualisation of the workforce may be an easy option for employers and make unemployment figures look better than they are, this pandemic has shown the huge cost that comes with this type of employment.

People willing to jeopardise not only their own health but the health of others to ensure they can continue to put food on their own tables was always going to happen
 

Brishawk

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and something that needs to be reviewed going forward. While casualisation of the workforce may be an easy option for employers and make unemployment figures look better than they are, this pandemic has shown the huge cost that comes with this type of employment.

People willing to jeopardise not only their own health but the health of others to ensure they can continue to put food on their own tables was always going to happen
Not surprisingly, this has been a large issue in the states.
 

tige19

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If you ignore everything contrary to your opinion, it is easy to make any claim. You claim the differences are due to competence but actually you ignore the causal chain of events that led to the current volume. If a person who has been instructed to isolate then goes and attends a family event with over 30 people, in what way is this caused be the handling of the government?
So again, Victorians act in a way that is totally contrary to the rest of the country? Almost like, Victorians are a different race, perhaps aliens?

No other state has had these issues to even close to the same extent.
 

Brishawk

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So again, Victorians act in a way that is totally contrary to the rest of the country? Almost like, Victorians are a different race, perhaps aliens?

No other state has had these issues to even close to the same extent.
You simply don’t want to accept there is little difference in the management of the crisis. I get it. But you do nothing to support your argument except point at the current levels. A month ago we were all condemning nsw but suddenly they are magical so much better.

It isn’t a simple case of flick switch A and better outcomes follow. it is sliding doors or the butterfly effect. small variations lead to large differences in outcomes. Risk management is about reducing the probability of negative outcomes but no approach can eliminate risk. There is always some residual risk. If you understand risk at all, you will understand that you can do all the right things and still lose.
 

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