The Serious News Thread

[theiaofseed]

The difference between the two protests is this

BLM: Organised, With police permission, Proper social distancing to be adhered too, A genuine cause, Peaceful protest but More people (but I highly doubt there will be 30,000

Anti lockdown/Anti 5G/Anti vax: No official police permission, Not a peaceful protest Source, An illogical illegitimate cause which puts more people in danger(which admittedly they still had the right to protest), Social distancing wasn't followed and Restrictions were tighter at the time


Ultimately the BLM protest is a peaceful protest over systematic racism where social distancing is set to be followed and enforced whereas the anti vax protest was a dangerous defiance of the law, health orders and all common sense to protest something completely unfounded.

It is undeniable that the BLM protest is dangerous because of it's size yet the risk can be majorly reduced by following all procedures set out by organisers, health experts and the police. I also strongly agree with this statement on the event's information page
Source

Sorry but every protest starts peacefully, there's even been protest organizers saying they can't promise it will stay peaceful, we live in an age where a # is just as powerful. I'm all for the protest long as everyone involved self quarantines for 2 weeks, the potential spread would kill more lives than the number of people dying in police custody.

 

[tige19]

The difference between the two protests is this

BLM: Organised, With police permission, Proper social distancing to be adhered too, A genuine cause, Peaceful protest but More people (but I highly doubt there will be 30,000

Anti lockdown/Anti 5G/Anti vax: No official police permission, Not a peaceful protest Source, An illogical illegitimate cause which puts more people in danger(which admittedly they still had the right to protest), Social distancing wasn't followed and Restrictions were tighter at the time


Ultimately the BLM protest is a peaceful protest over systematic racism where social distancing is set to be followed and enforced whereas the anti vax protest was a dangerous defiance of the law, health orders and all common sense to protest something completely unfounded.

It is undeniable that the BLM protest is dangerous because of it's size yet the risk can be majorly reduced by following all procedures set out by organisers, health experts and the police. I also strongly agree with this statement on the event's information page
Source

I look forward to your posts showing how social distancing was adhered too.. and Shane Patton’s comments on the protest.

"We will do what we can," he said. "My message is 'don’t go', it will be illegal because of the Chief Health Officer’s directions”

So that’s the top cop giving permission is it?

 

[Yardie]

I look forward to your posts showing how social distancing was adhered too.. and Shane Patton’s comments on the protest.

"We will do what we can," he said. "My message is 'don’t go', it will be illegal because of the Chief Health Officer’s directions”

So that’s the top cop giving permission is it?

Just like the anti-vaccine protest this is going to happen. They didn't fine everyone at that protest and they were supposed to be staying home not just socially distancing (they targeted specific individuals who were out to cause trouble). So as long as the police are consistent in their approach then I don't have an issue.

 

[brew]

The difference between the two protests is this

A genuine cause

There it is

 

[tige19]

Just like the anti-vaccine protest this is going to happen. They didn't fine everyone at that protest and they were supposed to be staying home not just socially distancing (they targeted specific individuals who were out to cause trouble). So as long as the police are consistent in their approach then I don't have an issue.

So no concerns about 10-30k in lieu of 100-200 spreading the virus? None what so ever? All jolly good? Because.... BLM

As I said, anyone who protests when the we are in the middle of a pandemic and desperate to get our livelihoods back are selfish and deserve to be fined. No regard or respect for anyone but themselves, they are protesting the treatment and death of indigenous people (the topic I agree with) yet are showing no regard for those that have died due to Covid19 or the rest of the community.

No respect from me.

 

[Yardie]

So no concerns about 10-30k in lieu of 100-200 spreading the virus? None what so ever? All jolly good? Because.... BLM

As I said, anyone who protests when the we are in the middle of a pandemic and desperate to get our livelihoods back are selfish and deserve to be fined. No regard or respect for anyone but themselves, they are protesting the treatment and death of indigenous people (the topic I agree with) yet are showing no regard for those that have died due to Covid19 or the rest of the community.

No respect from me.

No one needs your respect, you do understand that? Your just a faceless BigFooty user like the rest of us.

 

[tige19]

No one needs your respect, you do understand that? Your just a faceless BigFooty user like the rest of us.

You didn’t answer my question Yardie

 

[Restricted Free Agent]

Sorry but every protest starts peacefully, there's even been protest organizers saying they can't promise it will stay peaceful, we live in an age where a # is just as powerful.

No protest organisers can promise that their protest stays peaceful, but the organisers of this event have explicitly stated that rioting, looting and causing trouble won't be tolerated in the slightest. People have been told explicitly to not antagonise police and legal advice has been provided to help people deescalate situations they may find themselves in with the police peacefully. Source

Also, a hashtag doesn't do a whole lot bar spreading awareness initially. There's spreading awareness then there's demanding change, that's why protests are so important. 22 million people posted a black screen yet only 12 million signed a petition for justice for George Floyd. It is not enough to merely post a hashtag and a lot of people only do it because it's "trendy" or to make themselves feel better. Social media is an amazing tool for activism but it's just not enough most of the time.

I look forward to your posts showing how social distancing was adhered too.. and Shane Patton’s comments on the protest.

"We will do what we can," he said. "My message is 'don’t go', it will be illegal because of the Chief Health Officer’s directions”

So that’s the top cop giving permission is it?

"We absolutely understand the sentiment and the anger that lies behind that and we are very keen to support the community in giving a voice to their concerns," he said. But he conceded he would prefer the protest to be postponed and said it was "not a licence to break the law". "Those directions and that advice [from the Chief Health Officer] stands," he said. He said police, including the Mounted Branch, would ensure protesters were complying by the directives of the Chief Health Officer but would exercise discretion when it came to fines. ... We do respect the right everyone has to protest peacefully and lawfully.

- Assistant Victoria Police Assistant Commissioner Luke Cornelius Source

 

[Gralin]

You didn’t answer my question Yardie

Maybe because your question is bullshit

You're under representing the number of people that protested during lockdown, your brushing off the dangers of those protests and ignoring the fact the the message from police and politicians before, during and after those protests was very different.

Yes there will be more people protesting today than in the earlier protests, yes that creates a bigger risk to the community, but it's also happening at a time where we have the situation with the virus more under control than we did during those earlier protests

We don't know have any idea when having to live with coronavirus will end and the idea that protesting should be held off indefinitely could become protesting is not allowed.

Pandemics, wars, acts of terror, during these times is when authoritarian governments gain more power and control. This is when they s**t down free speech and free movement in the bake of safety.

And they don't like giving those freedoms back. Now that we've had one judge say protesting is illegal it could happen everywhere.

Governments are already looking at getting pet bills through, changing laws to help their mates, not your average citizen, not the actual economies of countries and not the planet.

You think Scotty's $25k grants are going to get the economy going the way he set it up? You think those hundreds of millions are going to be well spent tax dollars?

Now us absolutely when we should be questioning and scrutinising governments.

All the NSW cops and government have done is increase the risks from this protest.

They've also pretty much said black lives don't matter right now.

 

[Yardie]

You didn’t answer my question Yardie

I think if you work with the protesters rather than against them you can get the right outcome. South Australia has chosen the work with them approach and NSW has chosen the work against them approach. I'm interested to see how each one plays out.

 

[tige19]

Maybe because your question is bullshit

You're under representing the number of people that protested during lockdown, your brushing off the dangers of those protests and ignoring the fact the the message from police and politicians before, during and after those protests was very different.

Yes there will be more people protesting today than in the earlier protests, yes that creates a bigger risk to the community, but it's also happening at a time where we have the situation with the virus more under control than we did during those earlier protests

We don't know have any idea when having to live with coronavirus will end and the idea that protesting should be held off indefinitely could become protesting is not allowed.

Pandemics, wars, acts of terror, during these times is when authoritarian governments gain more power and control. This is when they s**t down free speech and free movement in the bake of safety.

And they don't like giving those freedoms back. Now that we've had one judge say protesting is illegal it could happen everywhere.

Governments are already looking at getting pet bills through, changing laws to help their mates, not your average citizen, not the actual economies of countries and not the planet.

You think Scotty's $25k grants are going to get the economy going the way he set it up? You think those hundreds of millions are going to be well spent tax dollars?

Now us absolutely when we should be questioning and scrutinising governments.

All the NSW cops and government have done is increase the risks from this protest.

They've also pretty much said black lives don't matter right now.

You wear the BS you spew like it’s a badge of honour, and you parade it like you are the speaker for all.

Firstly, I am completely neutral with my views on protesting, no-one should be doing it now.

You are giving a pass mark for these idiots to march because you agree with the cause, that’s it in a nutshell. The rest of your post is hogwash and grotesque rubbish, convincing yourself that your reasoning is sound.

Take a photo with your friends as you’re marching would you? Share with everyone how much you care for the cause.

 

[Gralin]

You wear the BS you spew like it’s a badge of honour, and you parade it like you are the speaker for all.

Firstly, I am completely neutral with my views on protesting, no-one should be doing it now.

You are giving a pass mark for these idiots to march because you agree with the cause, that’s it in a nutshell. The rest of your post is hogwash and grotesque rubbish, convincing yourself that your reasoning is sound.

Take a photo with your friends as you’re marching would you? Share with everyone how much you care for the cause.

Careful there old mate you're getting a bit personal

 

[brew]

Careful there old mate you're getting a bit personal

While you ask if someone's family is white?

 

[tige19]

Careful there old mate you're getting a bit personal

Which part was personal?

You said my question was “bullshit”, I said “you wear the BS you spew like a badge of honour”.. one and the same isn’t it?

We are debating (strongly) our views, nothing personal what so ever.

 

[flinchfree]

"white people need to check their privilege" "I don't like strong wording like that" That's what is said so don't misquote me. This is not equal to saying I don't like the wording white privilege. Ones a generalised statement, the other is grouping people based on their skin colour regardless of their life expereinces with zero exception, that's pretty campaignerish.

I think it's pretty simple.
Take ALL of your struggles in life based on the 'lot' you were dealt with.
Now add to that being Aboriginal, Black, African.
White privilege is simply not having to work through that extra layer to gain traction in your life.
Doesn't mean you've had it easy, or not needed to find fortitude and strength and will to make the most of your life, but that if you were black you could add a certain percentage of difficulty ON TOP of everything you worked through.
And that's tough when life is as hard as it is for many already.

 

[flinchfree]

Australians preaching they are the lucky country while sweeping their issues and history under the carpet. It's messed up here in NYC - institutional racism is rife. That said, at least minorities have a voice and dialogue is being initiatited. You try discussing privilege in Australia and you are shot down as a lefty or just a whinger.

All I can say is I'm glad I left that backwater island. I'm sure that the next 5 prime ministers will all be middle aged white men contributing SFA to the world.

Interesting take.
Being in Manhattan NY is like an entirely different country though....you may have left one 'backwater' in Oz, but if you were in Fayetteville Arkansas you may not be so pleased with your situ.

 

[flinchfree]

All this may reflect is that African-Americans are more highly represented in auto theft. So its stands to logic they will be pulled over more regularly otherwise Police would not be doing their job.

A recent studies of minorities in the US showed that 75% had experience no form of racial discrimination in their lifetime. 75%! Whereas almost 80% of 'privileged' white people surveyed thought there was a problem.

Where'd you get that number from?
Living here the last 20 years, my Dad was born in NYC, my Aunt has lived in Cali all her life, my wife's family in Kansas the last 140 years....they'd all fall off their chairs to hear a statistic like that.
Made up bs mate.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

People dying from selfish protesters spreading a virus is not a humanitarian issue?

I said both are humanitarian issues

Interesting take.
Being in Manhattan NY is like an entirely different country though....you may have left one 'backwater' in Oz, but if you were in Fayetteville Arkansas you may not be so pleased with your situ.

But ....I didn't move there

 

[theiaofseed]

I think it's pretty simple.
Take ALL of your struggles in life based on the 'lot' you were dealt with.
Now add to that being Aboriginal, Black, African.
White privilege is simply not having to work through that extra layer to gain traction in your life.
Doesn't mean you've had it easy, or not needed to find fortitude and strength and will to make the most of your life, but that if you were black you could add a certain percentage of difficulty ON TOP of everything you worked through.
And that's tough when life is as hard as it is for many already.

Bullshit, if you can't accept certain personal circumstances don't null and void this "privilege" you have no ******* idea. Do your self a favour and research the difficulties people with serve disabilities injure, I've lived this life I've talked and struggled with people from cross many ethnic backgrounds, race has nothing to do with the forefront of our daily struggles. "Being kicked out of restaurant" "refused service" " told flat out no one will hire you" "people refusing to touch money you've handled" "walking to the other side of street" but sure lecturer me on benefits.

 

[Hawk_francais]

Bullshit, if you can't accept certain personal circumstances don't null and void this "privilege" you have no ******* idea. Do your self a favour and research the difficulties people with serve disabilities injure, I've lived this life I've talked and struggled with people from cross many ethnic backgrounds, race has nothing to do with the forefront of our daily struggles. "Being kicked out of restaurant" "refused service" " told flat out no one will hire you" "people refusing to touch money you've handled" "walking to the other side of street" but sure lecturer me on benefits.

Why does one privilege void another in your mind? They do not cumulate and equate like a currency. Race, poverty, disability

Plenty of white folks experience hardships, plenty of dark-skinned people too. However in the case of white people, none of those are likely to be caused by system biased against their skin colour (let’s take employment as a simple example). All white Australian people enjoy the privilege of an employment system biased in their favour (Unemployment rates for indigenous people who have finished year 12 10%, while non-indigenous 3%). Never mind that only 10% of indigenous kids actually finish year 12 in the first place!

The fact that some white Aussie kids are uneducated, unemployed and doing it tough is just not relevant to racial prejudice. Even many indigenous kids enjoy privileges above others (educated parents, English as first language, lighter skin colour).

Tl;dr you don’t need to have made millions from your privileges to have lived with them.

 

[StevenwellerHFC]

 

[theiaofseed]

Why does one privilege void another in your mind? They do not cumulate and equate like a currency. Race, poverty, disability

Plenty of white folks experience hardships, plenty of dark-skinned people too. However in the case of white people, none of those are likely to be caused by system biased against their skin colour (let’s take employment as a simple example). All white Australian people enjoy the privilege of an employment system biased in their favour (Unemployment rates for indigenous people who have finished year 12 10%, while non-indigenous 3%). Never mind that only 10% of indigenous kids actually finish year 12 in the first place!

The fact that some white Aussie kids are uneducated, unemployed and doing it tough is just not relevant to racial prejudice. Even many indigenous kids enjoy privileges above others (educated parents, English as first language, lighter skin colour).

Tl;dr you don’t need to have made millions from your privileges to have lived with them.

Oh do they? All white people, all white people ding ding we have a winner.

Does it matter where discrimination comes from or do you only care about virtual signalling? Why is it so hard to understand, acknowledging this doesn't take away from the discrimination the majority of people of colour experience day to day or the non discrimination of white people experience day to day, personal circumstance can overwrite said privilege, so how is saying "all" helpful in any way? You can help eradicating discrimination on one group of people without feeling the need to malign another.

I never said it was relevant to racial prejudice, this isn't just about racial discrimination but discrimination for people that different than the "majority". This line of conversation is about not using terminology like "all" to stop needlessly dividing people and grouping people on heritage and class.

Whole issue is people not caring about other peoples experiences and not willing to listen, which is exactly why racism is allowed to continue people them self might not be racist but don't care enough to push for change because it doesn't affect them. Just like you and Gralin not wanting to even consider personal experiences and rather just group people based on heritage

 

[Bruno Oresar]

The concept of privilege is one of the most vacuous concepts ever invented by the pseudo social sciences. Where does it stop? If I’m black, female, lesbian, have a disability and am transgender then I have led a less privileged existence than the straight black male. This differential somehow renders the black straight males opinion less valid. I’m more disadvantaged, or as the pseudo social sciences would have it suffering greater ‘marginalization’ or ‘disenfranchisement’, and therefore my opinion is more valid regardless of intellect, education or facts. Privilege is another form of identity politics or cancel culture. Its similar to when someone practices gross hypocrisy by warning a poster with a card even though they themselves just called a post as “BS”. It’s all about using cancellation, or shutting down the opposing view, as a tactic rather than using reason and logic.

 

[Brishawk]

Please show me one example where someone has been fined under the exact same circumstances where someone else has been jailed. Just one. Thanks.

This kid was arrested by 9 cops for jaywalking.


This guy got arrested because he refused to walk towards cops pointing guns at him. His initial indiscretion was that he rolled through a stop sign.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/28/police-pointed-guns-man-his-grandmother-video-shows-they-claim-he-ran-stop-sign/%3foutputType=amp

 

[Gralin]

The concept of privilege is one of the most vacuous concepts ever invented by the pseudo social sciences. Where does it stop? If I’m black, female, lesbian, have a disability and am transgender then I have led a less privileged existence than the straight black male. This differential somehow renders the black straight males opinion less valid. I’m more disadvantaged, or as the pseudo social sciences would have it suffering greater ‘marginalization’ or ‘disenfranchisement’, and therefore my opinion is more valid regardless of intellect, education or facts. Privilege is another form of identity politics or cancel culture. Its similar to when someone practices gross hypocrisy by warning a poster with a card even though they themselves just called a post as “BS”. It’s all about using cancellation, or shutting down the opposing view, as a tactic rather than using reason and logic.

The point of talking about privilege is to get people thinking about the differences.

Male privilege exists. White privilege exists.
That doesnt mean you can't be male and white and disadvantaged or have a s**t life.

That doesn't mean being white and male is an automatic meal ticket.

It does mean that being white and male generally affords you certain advantages.
Just like having rich parents affords you certain advantages when it comes to your abiltity to get an education, get a good job.

Sure some people won't end up benefiting from it, and sure some without those advantages will thrive.

The point is its not a level playing field and not everyone experiences life the way you do.

When the majority of people in a country fit into a certain demographic. When the majority of representation in government, law enforcement, the legal system, tv, media in general fit that demographic, it makes a difference, even if you personally don't feel that it does. Even if your personal experience is that it doesn't.

People will always go looking for the exception to disprove the rule. They will always take anicdotes over evidence. Its human nature especially when you feel attacked or like admitting it takes something away from you.