Welcome The Shrine that is Jesse Hulk Hogan (Continued from Melbourne)

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im_a_lazy_sod

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I don't rememeber the media targetting Jess this much in his entire Melbourne career - now he's not even played a game for us and he's legit public enemy no. 1

****ing typical of our media. Liam Ryan get's all the positive support from the media and Jesse gets hung out to dry
 

WilloTree

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taking too long to make decisions about some players
Sometimes... other times we've chopped ridiculously quick. Strdanica was dropped in preference to a perennially injured Mike Apeness. And, somehow we managed to delist a 26 year old, 138 game defensive mid-forward who was part of the leadership group and had GF experience. I still wonder why we delised De-Boar, then turned around and asked why the ball keeps popping out of our forward 50.

grrrrrrr
 

Snuffaluphagus

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I don't rememeber the media targetting Jess this much in his entire Melbourne career - now he's not even played a game for us and he's legit public enemy no. 1

****ing typical of our media. Liam Ryan get's all the positive support from the media and Jesse gets hung out to dry
I dont remember him turning up to a Melbourne training session cooked either
 

im_a_lazy_sod

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I dont remember him turning up to a Melbourne training session cooked either
...that we know of. He probably didn't and they obviously knew he had issues - so did most fans, yet the media left him alone for the most part. Unless the vic media articles didn't reach us over here.
 

theGav56

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I dont remember him turning up to a Melbourne training session cooked either
The santa dance video is a few years old, but out it comes now. Liam Ryan's stuff was about as mild a treatment by media as you can get, unless you are Ben Cousin's while still in playing mode.

I am amazed at how some of or own supporters seem half-inclined to pile on as well, and accept the media treatment.
 

Johnny Dalmas

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Sometimes... other times we've chopped ridiculously quick. Strdanica was dropped in preference to a perennially injured Mike Apeness. And, somehow we managed to delist a 26 year old, 138 game defensive mid-forward who was part of the leadership group and had GF experience. I still wonder why we delised De-Boar, then turned around and asked why the ball keeps popping out of our forward 50.

grrrrrrr
Could not agree more.
 

Snuffaluphagus

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The santa dance video is a few years old, but out it comes now. Liam Ryan's stuff was about as mild a treatment by media as you can get, unless you are Ben Cousin's while still in playing mode.

I am amazed at how some of or own supporters seem half-inclined to pile on as well, and accept the media treatment.
I'm kinda sick of the victim mentality to be honest. The video likely came out as a result of some dickhead who already had it deciding it was a good time to show it off considering the training shenanigans, doubt the media was just sitting on it all this time.

While I wasnt on here then, I'd be willing to bet very few had an issue with the media when we were winning. We've had an average pre-season, have an injury list out the wazoo, a coach under a lot of pressure to perform and our big name recruit turned up to training having gotten blasted the night before. Media is going to have a field day with this stuff regardless of the club because it sells. Its got very little to do with being the Dockers.

Yes, the Liam Ryan reporting was/is bulls**t but I'd argue it feels worse for us at the moment because there are several negative things we are in the middle while they just won a flag and have nothing else negative about them to report on
 

tants

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I'm kinda sick of the victim mentality to be honest. The video likely came out as a result of some dickhead who already had it deciding it was a good time to show it off considering the training shenanigans, doubt the media was just sitting on it all this time.

While I wasnt on here then, I'd be willing to bet very few had an issue with the media when we were winning. We've had an average pre-season, have an injury list out the wazoo, a coach under a lot of pressure to perform and our big name recruit turned up to training having gotten blasted the night before. Media is going to have a field day with this stuff regardless of the club because it sells. Its got very little to do with being the Dockers.

Yes, the Liam Ryan reporting was/is bulls**t but I'd argue it feels worse for us at the moment because there are several negative things we are in the middle while they just won a flag and have nothing else negative about them to report on
You'd do your dough on that bet.
 

blue shark

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Clarkson is not only an extremely good head coach but he’s proven as a developer of successful head coaches.

GWS has and have had the best list in the comp for a while now and haven’t been able to get to a grand final let alone win one. Clarkson was involved in the list build at Hawks and took them to 3 flags. He’s the best in the business and trying to water that down or deny it just shows a lack of footy understanding.
Clarkson has won 4 flags, and lost one. That 08 win was also against all odds, and he rebuilt that team from
scratch, or rock bottom. Even the Hawks president wanted him gone.
Then look at his former assistants winning flags, rather his system than Paul Roos.
 

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FreoMonocle

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GWS has and have had the best list in the comp for a while now and haven’t been able to get to a grand final let alone win one. Clarkson was involved in the list build at Hawks and took them to 3 flags. He’s the best in the business and trying to water that down or deny it just shows a lack of footy understanding.
Clarkson was involved in the list build - Clarkson did not build his list.

Dealing with your own players, formulating your strategy on the next game based on the tendencies of next weeks head coach - and his probable best 22 is a full time job, plenty of menial paper work (this is a multi million dollar business, there is an audit trail) etc. Head coaches might pass on their shopping list, but coaches come and go - players outstay coaches and clubs would be stupid to let a coach recruit based on his kpi's - the coach could be gone in 12 months a young draftee could be the heart and soul of the next 12 years (Freo have been stupid often in the past with this issue). A good club does not let the Coach build their list, you let the pilot fly the plane and the plumber unblock the dunnies - If Clarkson wastes his time on list management that implies he is wasting time watching juniors and vfl, therefore he is not focusing on coaching and should have a rocket sent up his arse - he is not winning grand finals at the moment.

Credit to the bloke - and I paid that in the post, he made the most of a golden opportunity that was presented to him. But all the ducks were lined up, of the 17 other coaches at the time you can't say that only Clarkson could have done it with that list, maybe others could have done it, taken it further and gotten a 4peat - equally only got donuts.

Frankly, if you don't understand that in a given year some teams have everything in their favour - or against them, from injury to players in their prime, fixture - even the rub of the green and umpring, you "Shows a lack of footy understanding". The best list on paper and coaching doesn't win you a GF if you don't have player availability at the pointy end as just one example, you need all the ducks lined up in a row to win a GF, your role as head coach is important - but it is one of several links in the chain of all the things a club needs to be going right at the time.
 
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M_rash

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I don't rememeber the media targetting Jess this much in his entire Melbourne career - now he's not even played a game for us and he's legit public enemy no. 1

****ing typical of our media. Liam Ryan get's all the positive support from the media and Jesse gets hung out to dry
Matthew Lloyd made a good point on The Footy Show. Because Jesse switched clubs, he currently has no supporters. If he had stayed at Melbourne and this incident occurred, the media and supporters would wrap their arms around him as one of their own. Because he switched clubs, all his Melbourne based supporters have jumped off, and he hasn’t had time to build any in The West (not that the western media will ever like a Freo player). Kinda explains the outcry from Freo supporters too. When MJ got caught in Wolf Lane, there was quite a bit of support for him. People like loyalty and unfortunately Jesse f**ked up at a bad time apparently.

Personally, I’ll back him in! We have Schultz out there this week waiting for his Colonel to return
 

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Matthew Lloyd made a good point on The Footy Show. Because Jesse switched clubs, he currently has no supporters. If he had stayed at Melbourne and this incident occurred, the media and supporters would wrap their arms around him as one of their own. Because he switched clubs, all his Melbourne based supporters have jumped off, and he hasn’t had time to build any in The West (not that the western media will ever like a Freo player). Kinda explains the outcry from Freo supporters too. When MJ got caught in Wolf Lane, there was quite a bit of support for him. People like loyalty and unfortunately Jesse f**ked up at a bad time apparently.

Personally, I’ll back him in! We have Schultz out there this week waiting for his Colonel to return
But no Clinc!
 

theGav56

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I'm kinda sick of the victim mentality to be honest. The video likely came out as a result of some dickhead who already had it deciding it was a good time to show it off considering the training shenanigans, doubt the media was just sitting on it all this time.

While I wasnt on here then, I'd be willing to bet very few had an issue with the media when we were winning. We've had an average pre-season, have an injury list out the wazoo, a coach under a lot of pressure to perform and our big name recruit turned up to training having gotten blasted the night before. Media is going to have a field day with this stuff regardless of the club because it sells. Its got very little to do with being the Dockers.

Yes, the Liam Ryan reporting was/is bulls**t but I'd argue it feels worse for us at the moment because there are several negative things we are in the middle while they just won a flag and have nothing else negative about them to report on
I don't have a f*cking victim mentality. And I'm not paranoid. They really are coming to get us.

I was responding to your post saying you don't remember him turning up to Melbourne training cooked, and I am giving very clear incidents where the treatment by the media is inconsistent between clubs, but consistently negative towards us. You don't remember them because the media, which has significant representation by former Melbourne and WC players and established links to the high end of town, is selective about what is available to the likes of you and I. We don't get to remember what we didn't get to see.

If the media chose to spin it that way they could be driving a wedge into the failure of WC to secure a trade for Kelly, or their massive contract to a no-show Natanui, or the debacle about how the Gagf act has played out. They could spin that WC losing top assistant coaches such as Longmuir an in-contract Mitchell indicate a rift in the club and a lack of faith in the coach. Melbourne, which introduced tanking as a rebuild strategy, has failed in the development and retention of Hogan and Watts, two of the best talents to ever be dubbed "sure things" in terms of their destiny to lead a club out of the mire and into the light. Imagine the scrutiny if we were to lose Fyfe and Walters in a fire sale? Posters on here give the club flack for losing Strnadica and Collins. What chance someone will be wishing we'd hung onto Sheridan?

Large sections of the media want Lyon gone, and sacrificing someone like Hogan is part of the price they are happy to pay. People seem to be suddenly giving some form of credibility to the likes of Hardy and Hagdorn. Their mindset may have formed in the murky depths, but their agenda is fairly transparent.
 
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Cowboy Neale

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I think something like the Bennell trade was a good trade. The potential reward was worth the risk. The problem isn't the trade, its that we haven't cut our losses and walked away when it became obvious it wasn't working out.
i actually think that describes Ross’s strength and weakness as a coach. He’s very loyal and supportive of his players, particularly those behind the 8 ball. In Sonny Walters’ case it was a spectacular success and in Harley’s case it may still work out but unlikely and we probably should cut our losses. I’d prefer to the coach to be over supportive than under supportive when push comes to shove!
 

Cowboy Neale

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This is an interesting discussion in completely the wrong thread, but I am going to reply here as this is where the discussion is occurring.

Assessment of the coaching group is difficult, however I looked at our group compared to Collingwood’s.

Our main coaches are Ross, Michael Prior, David Hale, Simon Eastaugh and Anthony Rock. Senior development coach is Mark Webb, and the new Opposition Analyst is Leigh Montagna. If we look back over 10 years, the only people in this group who have experience at another AFL club (except as a player) is Eastaugh, with 4 years at the Eagles, and Ross himself.

Compare this to Collingwood, who have Buckley with no coaching experience elsewhere, Brenton Sanderson with senior coaching exp at Adelaide and coaching exp at Geelong in a premiership year, Robert Harvey with exp at Carlton and St Kilda and JLo with exp at the Dockers and Eagles.

As a group I think the resumes of our coaches are underwhelming. They each may be fine as individuals, but there is a distinct lack of breadth of experience.

I will point out that the Eagles coaching group looks ordinary when assessed in this way, however their Opposition Analyst, John someone, is probably the most senior in the business, and was with Hawthorn thru their dominant years.

I dislike where the club is going with appointments. It is very insular with little value placed on experience. Belly and Montagna fit this mold, Bell with no exp in another club for 15 or so years, and that as a player, Montagna exp at another club only as a player, his best exp coming under Ross.

I think at this point assessing Ross as well above average is flattering him. Clarkson, Simpson, Hardwick, Longmire and Chris Scott have to be placed ahead of him. Worsfold and Beveridge are premiership coaches, but Worsfolds record at Essendon is currently looking poor, and Beveridge is currently looking like he lucked in big time, but I am not sure one could place Ross ahead of them. At best I think Ross could be placed in a group of coaches around average or just above, based on his achievements 3+ years ago.

I think stability and looking after one’s own are good traits, but this has to be balanced against new blood and new ideas. I do not believe that education and visits to other similar professional bodies etc makes up for hard won experience. Imho the club needs to take a long, hard look at themselves and bring in some new blood.
Great post, I’m most disappointed that we haven’t appeared to go after quality, experienced assistant coaches. Brett Kirk - sigh!
 

tonygeeks

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I don't have a f*cking victim mentality. And I'm not paranoid. They really are coming to get us.

I was responding to your post saying you don't remember him turning up to Melbourne training cooked, and I am giving very clear incidents where the treatment by the media is inconsistent between clubs, but consistently negative towards us. You don't remember them because the media, which has significant representation by former Melbourne and WC players and established links to the high end of town, is selective about what is available to the likes of you and I. We don't get to remember what we didn't get to see.

If the media chose to spin it that way they could be driving a wedge into the failure of WC to secure a trade for Kelly, or their massive contract to a no-show Natanui, or the debacle about how the Gagf act has played out. They could spin that WC losing top assistant coaches such as Longmuir an in-contract Mitchell indicate a rift in the club and a lack of faith in the coach. Melbourne, which introduced tanking as a rebuild strategy, has failed in the development and retention of Hogan and Watts, two of the best talents to ever be dubbed "sure things" in terms of their destiny to lead a club out of the mire and into the light. Imagine the scrutiny if we were to lose Fyfe and Walters in a fire sale? Posters on here give the club flack for losing Strnadica and Collins. What chance someone will be wishing we'd hung onto Sheridan?

Large sections of the media want Lyon gone, and sacrificing someone like Hogan is part of the price they are happy to pay. People seem to be suddenly giving some form of credibility to the likes of Hardy and Hagdorn. Their mindset may have formed in the murky depths, but their agenda is fairly transparent.
You make some good points there Gav but the cold hard facts are we wear a lot of negativity because we have been nothing short of ****house for most of our 25 years and as 1 of only 2 teams in a historically rich football state like the West there is really no excuse you can make for us

Leaving West Corp out of it I always regard Port as our measuring stick and they have been clearly better than us unless you think having more money is something to be proud of

Where the **** is all this sustained success these clowns were ramming down our throats a couple of years ago ?

Every presser should be Red Nose Day down at Freo HQ


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

theGav56

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You make some good points there Gav but the cold hard facts are we wear a lot of negativity because we have been nothing short of ****house for most of our 25 years and as 1 of only 2 teams in a historically rich football state like the West there is really no excuse you can make for us

Leaving West Corp out of it I always regard Port as our measuring stick and they have been clearly better than us unless you think having more money is something to be proud of

Where the **** is all this sustained success these clowns were ramming down our throats a couple of years ago ?

Every presser should be Red Nose Day down at Freo HQ


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app
I fully concur that we cop negativity due to lack of success. No issue at all with it. I also think Port were an appropriate measuring stick, although it is meaningless after 25 years. The club now measures against every other club, and we finished bottom 4 in a re-build. We are at the back of the pack. And I think there are those who are hell-bent on keeping us there, and the comparative treatment of Hogan and Ryan in the media is revealing (fine with how Ryan was treated by the way). Not dissimilar to the media treatment of Croad and Tarrant either in some regards.
 
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Mr Fonebone

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He was a drunken fart and you need to learn more about Monty Python.
Ahem..relevant excerpt from lyrics below:

And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart,
"I drink, therefore I am."
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed,
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pi**ed.

You need to read more on Monty Philosophy ( or is it Western Python? )
 

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