The silver lining...

[Persevering Saint]

Okay, we lost. Nuff said on that, except...

Look, we lost by 9 points. At the end of the 3rd quarter,we were only a few points down - Chucky Gardiner had the pill 50 out, Beeg called for it, and Chuck did the right thing in giving it to him, since he's the best kick we've got. Beeg would kick that 99% of the time, but this was the 1%, thanks to an absolutely incredible smother by young Browny of the Pies. Not only did that mean a missed goal, but the rebound cost us another, to an absolutely ridiculous umpiring decision. That's a 12 point turnaround, in a 9 point loss. Do the math.

Second, we all want to say we played crap. We didn't. People who are firing up the stakes for Blake, Birss, L Fisher, or Dempster are just embarressing themselves. 3 of these guys were primarily playing as taggers, and were downright incredible - beyond merely "heart", which seems to mean little to some posters, they actually did really, really well.

Third, our midfield was excellent, and in particular Luke Ball showed he's not become crap, he's been shackled by an injury... which he is almost totally over. The ruck duo worked well, and when one of Gardiner or King break down, we now can be sure McEvoy will cream. Ooh, and the goals from the midfield were up significantly. Ooh, we also have X to return, and we have Jones and Mini consistently playing brilliantly in the Scorps. So midfield, big tick.

Backline, also big tick. Maxy was incredible. Some of the run out of the back was down, but really, as a defensive unit, coming to terms with injuries galore, they did well. Geary will come in soon, Gilbert will return, and we'll be fine.



Claims that Lyon was somehow soft, or stupid, or whatever to take G back are crap. As he said in his press conference, "hindsight is a wonderful thing." If YOU were the coach, and you had a double coleman medalist saying he wanted to have one more go, tell me YOU wouldn't take him, especially when he's a beloved player among both the other players, and the fans. We would have spewed vitriol forever if, when Gehrig said he wanted back in, Lyon had said no.


The real problem, the huge problem, is the forward line. G's lost it. Roo's not there. Kosi's a hot transvestite (promises lots, but when everything's revealed, you don't want to go near him...) - his admission about being relieved after losing a final says absolute volumes. BUT, fact is all those bagging Schneider and Milne are ridiculous - they are crumbers. Milne's set shot work has always been iffy, but he relies on decent tall forwards being kicked to - if they're not playing properly, that effects him. They don't even have to be marking the ball for Milne to fire, obviously. They just have to be real target, something Kosi, Chuck and Gehrig weren't.

BUT, the silver lining is, we have the solutions to this coming in the wings. We have Allen. We have Roo back soon. We even have the possibility of a surprise packet in Ferguson, probably to take Chuck's role on.

The point is, maybe we're not as bad as it looks.

 

[mick13]

Good post.

Don't really have anything to add, but it's a good way to look at the positives.

Also, how good is Armo? He's gonna be a flipping gun.

And hopefully the 'mongrel' we been lookin for.

 

[35Harvs]

Yep, fair points, there PS

Just on Kosi, really we should look at that comment in perspective. He came back from a pretty bad injury & clearly wasn't ready to play. If we won, he'd have to saddle up again the week after (in a final) and I'm betting wouldn't have nearly been ready mentally.

For me, it is no indication of where he's at today, in 2008.

 

[saintmont]

I think we are at the crossroads at the moment. Time to play guys like Allen, Mcqualter etc. Make some hard decision before we fall way behind.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I think we are at the crossroads at the moment. Time to play guys like Allen, Mcqualter etc. Make some hard decision before we fall way behind.

Yes. Gehrig is gone - that's a certainty. But what we have to start to face up to is this horrifying realisation: Kosi is actually going to have to start looking over his shoulder.

Please note, I'm not advocating dropping him. What I am saying is if he keeps "playing" like he has been, there are quite a few people coming up in the Scorps who would be quite happy to play full forward / or ruck for St Kilda. Lyon has none of the emotional hangups that Grant (who was like a father to Justin) would have about this issue.

We are a LONG way from that right now. Justin has many more games to prove himself. But the frustrating thing is that he even has to do that - he should be carving them up. We have put up with so much for that boy, and now to have all this happening, with barely a scratch on him, well, it feels like he's, I dunno, letting down all the faith that has been shown in him.

 

[HoldenMCaulfield]

After a loss like last night and, well, basically the entire season so far, one might say that we should start a complete re-build now.

But, then again, week after week, there are two men amongst the boys who defy their age (36 and 32) and lead by example. Our two eldest players, Harvey and Hudghton, are within our best five players.

Someone said it in another thread - one area we have improved in is recruiting and player development.

While we should continue to exploit Harvey's and Hudghton's experience to allow young players to learn from real champions, I would therefore agree to look at the 'middle age' group and to bring in young and willing players like Jones, McEvoy, Allen, Geary (in addition to Armitage) for those unwilling to provide that little extra (even including stars like Koschitzke - and yes, Raph Clarke should not be spared either after last nights performance).

 

[Persevering Saint]

Dom, I know how much that hurt to say. Big cudos for you there.

 

[Axcellence]

Aren't you tired of bringing the same rose coloured glasses every week? Nothing wrong with being optimistic... but its bordering on delusional....

You wrote the link below after the richmond game.... now really... same claptrap again this week!

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=444125

 

[Squizz]

Nice sentiments Percy, but the forward line is completely disfunctional. Milne tried, but had one of those nights. I never wanted Fraser back for a "fairytale" finish to his career, Kosi doesn't mark at full stretch (a guy 197cm who wants to mark on his chest all the time defies logic), Raphy just loped around (yes, he was worth a try forward), they threw Gardi forward when he was hot and no-one kicked to him, and Chucky doesn't want to kick for goal.

We finally had midfielders going for goal, and the defence was fantastic, but stuffed the game up with some insipid efforts in the forward line. Can someone ask Fraser what he would prefer to be doing, as it is clearly not AFL football.

 

[Persevering Saint]

But isn't that my point? The forward line sucks. But we have options in the twos to solve that problem.

 

[ChrisFooty]

Jason blake played a really good game. Was excellent.

Very sad to see the G-train finished. Charlie Gardnier and raph clarke were very poor too.

Replace with Allen, Ferg? Give Geary and Mcqualter a go.

Otherwise, we actually did not play too badliy.

 

[Squizz]

But isn't that my point? The forward line sucks. But we have options in the twos to solve that problem.

Yeah, it was your point. I guess I am saying we aren't going to drop some of the players who are involved in the disfunctional forward line. If our backline was very good, all the midfielders made sound contributions and this time kicked goals, and we still lose against a team who have their own form issues is there a silver lining?

Woody is some way off for mine. I think he's a player but did not run to dangerous spots in the last 2 games for Casey and he is not clean with his hands (the game v the Bullants was perfect footy weather and he had no impact).

Fergie is pretty desperate and has solid skills so might help a little. But realistically he is not going to take an AFL game by the scruff of the neck at 187cm.

Macca will be very good next year, but is still learning and is very light.

I also like Jack Steven, but again for next year.

We had the opportunity to exploit Gardi's form on the night and didn't take it - so I'd query the tactical nouse.

The club could build around Gardi up forward, but whilst we pin our hopes on Kosi (who whilst can bust a game in a quarter just isn't consistent enough) we will never know. These two cannot play in the same forward line, drawing each other's opponent to the contest.

I'm at a loss, as Blake probably should take Chucky's spot forward but neither of them kick the goals they should. Raph was worth a go forward, but Maxwell (yes, a good defender) just smashed him.

Either Sam F or Goose should have been tried forward, but there has been a reluctance to try things (and now injuries have impacted the structure).

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yeah, it was your point. I guess I am saying we aren't going to drop some of the players who are involved in the disfunctional forward line. If our backline was very good, all the midfielders made sound contributions and this time kicked goals, and we still lose against a team who have their own form issues is there a silver lining?

Woody is some way off for mine. I think he's a player but did not run to dangerous spots in the last 2 games for Casey and he is not clean with his hands (the game v the Bullants was perfect footy weather and he had no impact).

Fergie is pretty desperate and has solid skills so might help a little. But realistically he is not going to take an AFL game by the scruff of the neck at 187cm.

Macca will be very good next year, but is still learning and is very light.

I also like Jack Steven, but again for next year.

We had the opportunity to exploit Gardi's form on the night and didn't take it - so I'd query the tactical nouse.

The club could build around Gardi up forward, but whilst we pin our hopes on Kosi (who whilst can bust a game in a quarter just isn't consistent enough) we will never know. These two cannot play in the same forward line, drawing each other's opponent to the contest.

I'm at a loss, as Blake probably should take Chucky's spot forward but neither of them kick the goals they should. Raph was worth a go forward, but Maxwell (yes, a good defender) just smashed him.

Either Sam F or Goose should have been tried forward, but there has been a reluctance to try things (and now injuries have impacted the structure).

I agree with you about the young guys. Some of them could have a go and it may be good experience for them, but I dont think they will be a huge assist to the Saints right now.

I think Lyon had been using a results based selection from the start of the year. He has given some iffy players a chance and then dropped them. ( Rix , Raph , Fiora, Blake, Fisher, Gehrig ). Geary was given a good chance and went OK for a bit but then fell in a hole, then dropped. The reason they are back in now is he had to select someone to replace injury's and based on Scorpions performance these guys are the best.

I think we might see Jones swapped for Raph now.
If we need another ruck we will see McEvoy. ( but I don't think King will be dropped on one bad game, but maybe injuries ).
If we drop Fraser we might see Fergason.
If we drop both Fraser and Charlie we might see Fergason and Allen.

I would love to see Chips in the forward line. He can get the ball and he can kick the s__t out of it and it goes where he wants it to, and he ususally picks a good spot.

Maybe worth trying Ferg up the back so he can have a try there.

 

[augie]

Good post.

Don't really have anything to add, but it's a good way to look at the positives.

Also, how good is Armo? He's gonna be a flipping gun.

And hopefully the 'mongrel' we been lookin for.

It's almost scary to watch his attack on the footy. For someone with his build to put his body in like he does is awesome. I can't imagine what he will be like in a few years when he gets a bit bigger. And I look forward to him gaining the composure that comes with experience that he lacks a little of atm.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Just thought I'd also ask everyone if there is a silver lining in the fact we only went down by 9 points to the team that in their very next game crushed Geelong like a bug.

 

[bubblegoose]

Just thought I'd also ask everyone if there is a silver lining in the fact we only went down by 9 points to the team that in their very next game crushed Geelong like a bug.

Yep I reckon PS. And we should have got over C*wood anyway. So our defeat by Port was really the one that we should not have lost.

I'll admit it does feel a bit like clutching at straws though and I wouldn't argue that we haven't played any really decent footy for a full game - Essendon game maybe.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Yep I reckon PS. And we should have got over C*wood anyway. So our defeat by Port was really the one that we should not have lost.

I'll admit it does feel a bit like clutching at straws though and I wouldn't argue that we haven't played any really decent footy for a full game - Essendon game maybe.

We haven't. 3rd quarter of the Essendon game we were smashed.

 

[bubblegoose]

We haven't. 3rd quarter of the Essendon game we were smashed.

they played well then - but yes thats why I included my "maybe" disclaimer