Strategy The Spine (TM) - Discussion On Our Talls

[jdisc]

Creating this thread to discuss the development of our talls, as I have noticed this discussion ongoing in a number of seperate threads.

The loss of Barrass, McGovern, and now potentially Allen has left us with a significant loss of tall talent. Thankfully a number of our young talls are showing promising signs.

Questions to answer:

• If Allen leaves, who is our #2 forward to play with Waterman?
• Do we persist with Flynn or find/develop a new ruckman?
• Do we trial Archer/Shanahan in defence?
• Do we rate BWill or JWill as a 2nd ruck/forward option?

Template:

Player	Position
Full Back
Centre Half Back
3rd Tall Defender
Ruckman
2nd ruckman/forward
Centre Half Forward
Full Forward

Our Round 1 Set Up:

Player	Position
Full Back	Harry Edwards
Centre Half Back	Jeremy McGovern
3rd Tall Defender	Reuben Ginbey
Ruckman	Matt Flynn
2nd ruckman/forward	Archer Reid
Centre Half Forward	Jake Waterman
Full Forward	Oscar Allen

 

[KERRPOW]

I think we have decent KPF depth.

We need more KPD depth. The loss of barrass, but moreso the premature retirement of gov has made this a priority.

We havent got our ruck situation right for a few years now. I suppose when you have had gardiner/cos/nicnat the last 20years and then all of a sudden got a bunch of legitimate honest triers its a noticable hole.

Im not sure if trying to recuirt another stop gap ruck is the solution. Weay need to try and lure ruckmen from other clubs who are stuck in the pecking order .

Fek we tried that with flynn who we all initally thought was the beez kneez.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

If Allen leaves, who is our #2 forward to play with Waterman?

Shanahan. The perfect one two pairing, given they can both provide a link up option but you’d also feel comfortable looking up and seeing either one out in the goal square. I cannot overstate how much Shanahan has it.

Do we persist with Flynn or find/develop a new ruckman?
Both? There’s no quick fix, unless they spend serious currency for Cameron. I would prefer we don’t (albeit would accept a late first which will push out to 30 for a sugar hit of a few years of vaguely competitive ruck craft giving our mids an actual chance to develop, and think they will get locked in on bringing him across). Flynn or Cameron aside, the most problematic gap in our list is the sheer gulf in class between our rucks and the oppo, so it needs to be development priority #1 as it’s surely a given we just throw high picks at the midfield situation.

Do we trial Archer/Shanahan in defence?
Archer, don’t wait til next year. Gov heir with the way he reads it and gets after the footy. He could solve another major list hole for us which we will get to.

Do we rate BWill or JWill as a 2nd ruck/forward option?
JWill is a much better forward option than Bailey inside 50. Bailey is better around the ground and at the ruck taps, but we are so far off the mark there we should just back JWill to the hilt. Third forward and pinch hit ruck option, lock him in for months at a time. I really appreciate what Bailey has done and **** knows he tries his guts out most weeks (last week weirdly notwithstanding). He’s not a ruckman. He’s not a forward. He could be a viable role player at a much better side but the role we need him to play is simply too big for him. I’d move him for any meaningful NGA points or future pick.

Template:

Player	Position
Full Back	Edwards
Centre Half Back	Reid*
3rd Tall Defender	Ginbey
Ruckman	Cameron (I’d prefer not paying but they’ll get locked in)
2nd ruckman/forward	JWill
Centre Half Forward	Waterman
Full Forward	Shanahan

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I want Harry Edwards at CHB personally... I think he is more comfortable trying to intercept mark then going with a guy on the lead from FB. In regards to the FB role Id like to see another year of that Brock/Bazzo duo to see if someone can really claim it. I think Brock long term is good enough to be a starting FB in a premiership side myself

Big one is the ruck. We gotta get Darcy Cameron

14

Darcy Cameron

Age

30

Ht

204cm

Wt

103kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.0

1star

K

3.3

1star

HB

2.7

2star

CL

0.3

2star

HO

5.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

CL

0.5

3star

HO

3.5

5star

D

6.0

2star

K

3.3

2star

HB

2.7

3star

CL

0.3

2star

HO

5.3

5star

at this point. We just need to suck it up and deal with the price at this point. With Cameron in we then need to find a ruck to develop behind in which id like to be Archer Reid . Based on that for next year id like to see come Round 1

Player	Position
Full Back	Sandy Brock
Centre Half Back	Harry Edwards
3rd Tall Defender	Reuben Ginbey
Ruckman	Darcy Cameron
2nd ruckman/forward	Archer Reid
Centre Half Forward	Jake Waterman
Full Forward	Jobe Shanahan

 

[RanaNaved]

When we get CDT, that'll give the club great flexibility given he can ruck, go forward, and play interceptor role in defence. Like Blicavs does

 

[Wooshaaaa]

PlayerPosition
Full Back archer
Centre Half Back h edwards
3rd Tall Defender busslinger
Ruckman moyle
2nd ruckman/forward J williams.
Centre Half Forward shanahan
Full Forward waterman

We have most of the chess pieces.

Trade for Moyle and busslinger. Offer stupid money and use future picks.

Ruban can play back as well if we need to, but start rotating through the midfield. Hell, stick him on the defensive wing and use his running capacity.

 

[Farang83150]

Would be pissed if they tried to turn Shanahan into a defender, blokes coming along very nicely where he is.
Is the CDT bloke meant to be a bit Jackson like?
Heard them saying in Gettable he's very good below his knees.
Wouldn't mind Cameron at all.

 

[ballsohard]

Player	Position
Full Back	Brock
Centre Half Back	Edwards
3rd Tall Defender	Ginbey
Ruckman	Cameron/Moyle
2nd ruckman/forward	J Will/A Reid
Centre Half Forward	Shanahan
Full Forward	Waterman

I think our biggest point of weakness that needs addressing is the ruck slot.
If we can manage to get Cameron or another solid ruckman while still taking picks 1, 2, and a later 1st to the draft - And keeping enough points for our NGA/FS picks that would be a huge win.

Forward line is sorted, as great as Ginbey has been as a defender it would still be nice to get him some run through the middle. Could definitely use some more key defender stocks.

Think our spine has a lot of talent in it though - bodes well.

 

[Donkers]

TBH I'm quite happy with how Brock is developing as a CHB. Needs size and a bit more physicality but he reads the play well, has the speed, agility and height required, is very good overhead (not elite) and has a very good left peg with exceptional penetration.

I would be playing developing Archer Reid through defence and also through the ruck. He reads the play exceptionally well, is very good overhead and has decent ruck craft already. He needs size. Whilst a terrible shot on goal he is a decent field kick.

Happy with Waterman and Shanahan up front and Edwards at FB.

Club needs either a KPD prospect or a ruck prospect or to just trade for a ready to go full time ruck like Moyle.

I also hope that Flynn is actually able to have a full preseason and really build on his tank. Against the best rucks he's not great but against the average ones he tends to start quite well before falling away as the game goes on. It's a reasonably low chance of happening but I think if he could get his fitness up to elite levels he would perform at a significantly higher level than he is now. I'm not sure he's ever (yes i mean ever) had a full preseason.

Jack Williams is a great Ruck/Forward and is just going to slowly get better and better.

I think that will make Bailey Williams highly expendable and if someone is interested and he is open to a trade then I would happily do it if the club can secure a either a great mature KPD or Ruck prospect. The only draftable option I see in the pool at a high level for KPD is Schubert.

Also if we're looking to draft a ruck prospect I really rate Van Rooyen in next years draft. Already 203cm and good ruck craft, just needs strength as he got out bodied a lot by older, stronger players at this years champs.

 

[jdisc]

I would be playing developing Archer Reid through defence and also through the ruck. He reads the play exceptionally well, is very good overhead and has decent ruck craft already. He needs size. Whilst a terrible shot on goal he is a decent field kick.

Does he have the height to develop as a pure ruck?

I'd love another prospect in that position other than Livinstone. (Yes I know Barnett is on the list but we are all in agreement on him).

 

[jdisc]

We need more KPD depth. The loss of barrass, but moreso the premature retirement of gov has made this a priority.

Agree, and while Brock has proven to be quite serviceable and Bazzo has shown signs, neither seem to be in that 'elite' category. Would love a real A grade KPD to go with Edwards.

 

[jdisc]

Ruban can play back as well if we need to, but start rotating through the midfield. Hell, stick him on the defensive wing and use his running capacity.

Defensive wing is the last place I'd want him TBH

you want him in the contest - whether thats a stoppage or a ball coming into D50

 

[Jeremy McLovin]

Max Heath is another ruck option we should be looking at

 

[Elite Pete]

I think we trade in some mature age players for positions of need. Ruck, KPD for this topic. I don’t think we get Cameron and I’m 50/50 on that. Not sure who else is out there but they will bring in a ruck option, so I’ll go the Tigers connection of Soldo. I think they will try and free up Ginbey as well.

2026 Round 1
Full Back- Harry Edwards
CHB- Jacob Blight
3rd Defender- Bazzo
Ruck- Soldo/Flynn/Cameron
Fwd/Ruck- A Reid
CHF- Shanahan
FF- Waterman.

 

[WCE777]

FB: H Edwards
CHB: Brock
3RD TALL: Ginbey/Bazzo
RUCK: Cameron/Moyle
2ND RUCK/FWD: J Williams/Livingstone
CHF: Shanahan
FF: Waterman

Back line FB/CHB: Very thin down back and we have very few options available except trade of draft.
Trade for Busslinger who 21 and ready to go.
He can then compete with Brock and Edwards for the best spot and we have depth.
2026 D Shanahan is an NGA KPD prospect who will fill the draftable depth problem, if not draft another.

3RD TALL: Bazzo and Ginbey are more than adequate.

RUCK: Big issue and can only be solved in the short term by trading in players like Cameron/Moyle.
Cameron becomes a 3-4 year project while A Reid develops.
Moyle is ready to go and only 23 so will be a long term project if A Reid is regarded as a KPD/Ruck prospect.

2ND RUCK/FWD: J Williams is developing nicely and is more than capable/Livingstone also has potential.
CHF: Shanahan

FF: Waterman/A Reid if he can fix his goal kicking.

If these scenarios play out where Cameron or Moyle are traded in then B Williams becomes surplus too needs and can be traded.

 

[stallon]

• If Allen leaves, who is our #2 forward to play with Waterman?

Shanahan

• Do we persist with Flynn or find/develop a new ruckman?

Cameron for any non first round picks ideally, but hes worth getting imo unless we can get something from somewhere else, like a Moyle type

• Do we trial Archer/Shanahan in defence?

Archer yes, especially if we get a guy like Moyle who has plenty of years of #1 ruck ahead of them. If we get DCam and dont draft a new ruckman id be inclined to make Archer a ruckman.
Shanahan no, hes a forward now

• Do we rate BWill or JWill as a 2nd ruck/forward option?

I do, imo JWil is more of a FF first backup ruck second, while BWil is more of the backup ruck first KPF second. Depends who our main ruckman is, but tbh if I had to pick one to keep it'd be BWil right now.


We really do need another KPD.
With no Allen/Jamo/Gov/Barnett on the list we are still ok for KPFs, just KPD needed. That could be Archer but then we need a new ruckman coming through. Ideally at least 2 talls added to the list this off-season with Archer to flex to wherever has the least depth, but if we get 1 tall thats not the end of the world.

Imo need at least 4 KPDs, 4 KPFs(2 who can backup ruck), and 2 genuine ruckmen as a minimum for talls.
We are 1 KPD short and 1 genuine ruckman short, but have extra KPFs. Archer fills one of those holes.

I dont count Ginbey as a KPD, even though he probably is considered that by the club

 

[FKASC]

Does he have the height to develop as a pure ruck?

Definitely tall enough and has a good leap compared to other 203 cm players. He’s just slightly built for a ruck and his brother hasn’t managed to put on much muscle by the looks. That’s the only real question mark I’d say.

 

[FKASC]

It’s interesting that Archer played alongside Maric in the Gippsland Power U/18s until Maric was picked up by us mid-year.

We forget how much development Maric still has to come, and have kinda forgotten about him a bit.

Maric is taller than JK, and could still end up part of the spine down the track once he fills out completely.

A pretty exciting group of young talls, just need to add a pure KPD to the mix

 

[Barrybran]

• If Allen leaves, who is our #2 forward to play with Waterman?
• Do we persist with Flynn or find/develop a new ruckman?
• Do we trial Archer/Shanahan in defence?
• Do we rate BWill or JWill as a 2nd ruck/forward option?

1. Shanahan. He's a natural KPF. Strong JK vibes.
2. Both. Flynn has improved this season despite the whining about his performances. That said, he's below AFL standard and finding a ruck that can compete at the level is a must.
3. Archer, though Brock and Bazzo deserve opportunities as well. We should also look at Archer as a ruckman.
4. JWill. As others have mentioned, JWill is a capable forward who can ruck whereas BWill is a backup ruck who plays backup forward and isn't really good at either. Ideally, BWill is traded this off-season.

 

[Cainozz]

Shanahan is not only a great mark, he’s got a beautiful kicking technique for goal. Fantastic when he pushes up the ground too and more often than not, plucks those connection kicks between defence and attack.

As opposed to A.Reid who struggles in front of goal. Reid always brings the ball to ground though which shows he reads it really well in the air. Could be a very talented intercept defender to challenge Hedwards for that role as I think he probably has more talent than Harry.

Agree leave Bazzo and Brock to fight it out next year over who gets the big boy matchup at full back.

 

[Donkers]

Shanahan's leading, marking and kicking on goal actually reminds me most of Lloyd. Different era and it's a lot to live up to but he's better defensively and less selfish too.

 

[bzparkes]

Shanahan's leading, marking and kicking on goal actually reminds me most of Lloyd. Different era and it's a lot to live up to but he's better defensively and less selfish too.

That would make sense, considering Lloyd mentored him for a bit pre-draft.

 

[ArdentEagle]

I like most of the suggestions on here but I still think we can have our cake and eat it too.

Use the Cameron draft currency to help bolster our midfield.
Get ROB through PSD instead. Give him a final contract that'll make his retirement fund. 3yr @ x $$$

Player	Position
Full Back	Edwards
Centre Half Back	Reid*
3rd Tall Defender	Ginbey
Ruckman	ROB
2nd ruckman/forward	JWill
Centre Half Forward	Waterman
Full Forward	Shanahan

Plus extra 21-26yr old, fairly high level midfielder.

Surely we have the $$$

The way I see it - It's ROB + midfielder or Cameron alone

 

[Monsterdarlz]

Personally id like
FB: Edwards
CHB: Blight is an incredible mark and runner should be available cheap
Third Tall: Brock/ Bazzo (CHB second choice)
Ruck: need a new number one start running Archer Reid as a TDK lite ruck in the twos
CHF: Shanahan
FF: waterman
Second ruck: Bwill

Hopefully add Curtin as a developing kpd

 

[twadds]

Your column headers are around the wrong way…. Just saying