Review The state of junior football in SA
- Thread starter Drugs Are Bad Mackay?
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That's the city itself. What about moggs creek
- Aug 7, 2015
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That's the city itself. What about moggs creek
Greater Geelong (City + surrounding districts) has a population near 240K in 2017 and it being the major population centre between the rest of western Vic and Melb means it probably has a much larger pool of AFL players to draw on. Moogs Ck is well outside of Greater Geelong area.
Yes Bicks hybrid forward - taller brett BurtonIt's not so much a height thing with Krueger it's his game style, in my limited viewing of him he doesn't scream KPP to me unless you think with his athleticism he could play a "mobile" Forward role in a similar vein to Buddy or as a Defender similar to Rance.
Poor Port Power can't even turn a profit now let alone have to try and develop juniors.
Don't quite follow you here.
What undrafted players? Undrafted players from where?
Undrafted SANFL players are already playing in the SANFL.
What's to say a TAC type comp that you mentioned previously will be better than what's happening now?
What are you basing it on? The vibe?
I'm sure many Victorian born players in the SANFL have spent time in the TAC system. What's the point?
- Jun 10, 2009
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As a demonstration of the difference between the the TAC system and the SA system young Jordan Johnston is a highly proven gun medium Forward at the GWV Rebels but last week and yet again this week he's playing midfield to give the AFL recruiters a look at him in that role coming to the pointy end of the season, did quite well last week at his first real crack in the midfield. If he can add another string to his bow it will only enhance his prospects. From what I'm led to believe that wouldn't happen in the SANFL system as it might hinder the teams chances of a win. There will be wall to wall AFL recruiters at this game because there are quite a few likely draft prospects playing including from the Rebels Lloyd Meek, Jordan Johnston and Aiden Domic and from the Falcons Matthew Ling, James Worpel, Gryan Miers, Ethan Floyd, Tom McCartin, Cassidy Parish and Josh Jaska.
I'm hoping we're seriously into Johnston with his skill set and ubundant X Factor.
I'm hoping we're seriously into Johnston with his skill set and ubundant X Factor.
All this talk of the AFL taking over admin of each state is a joke. They cannot spread themselves that far and don't like spending money outside the east coast. How much money goes into AFL Tasmania, bugger all.
Reality is that the AFL is a league just like the SANFL, the key is the football commissions in each state setting up structures for elite development whilst also setting up structures for their state leagues. The AFL comission is there to work with the state leagues for elite development and the structurea for their league. Problem is that the AFL is still stuck in VFL mentality.
The death of the state leagues leads to a degradation in participation as kids feel that unless I am one of the 30 odd drafted in my state I have no where to go, so stuff footy. This will lead to a slow decline in Aussie Rules overall, not good for any of the leagues including the AFL.
So the solutions.
A TAC Cup in each state should exist, suppprted by both the state league (30%) and the AFL (70%). It is strictly under 18 and in SA would probably only 4 teams.
Drafting of these kids involves a tiered transfer fee structure that goes to the TAC Cup competition, their junior club and the SA football commission. Monies reflect value rather than the stuff all paid at the moment.
SANFL still has reserves and juniors for kids outside the elite program, with some players moving between both.
Reality is that the AFL is a league just like the SANFL, the key is the football commissions in each state setting up structures for elite development whilst also setting up structures for their state leagues. The AFL comission is there to work with the state leagues for elite development and the structurea for their league. Problem is that the AFL is still stuck in VFL mentality.
The death of the state leagues leads to a degradation in participation as kids feel that unless I am one of the 30 odd drafted in my state I have no where to go, so stuff footy. This will lead to a slow decline in Aussie Rules overall, not good for any of the leagues including the AFL.
So the solutions.
A TAC Cup in each state should exist, suppprted by both the state league (30%) and the AFL (70%). It is strictly under 18 and in SA would probably only 4 teams.
Drafting of these kids involves a tiered transfer fee structure that goes to the TAC Cup competition, their junior club and the SA football commission. Monies reflect value rather than the stuff all paid at the moment.
SANFL still has reserves and juniors for kids outside the elite program, with some players moving between both.
Great post.
It probably wouldnt be a bad idea to enter a team in the TAC but unfortunately the team will be heavily affected by the fact private schools will want players to play school first which would decimate the team
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Mart
Players do not have to be exclusive to their Cup club. Say you had the Hills Rangers in SA wiyhin the RAA Cup. The kid could still move out to Sturt juniors or Scotch College when not playing for the Rangers, selection based on performance and being identified in the elite program, much like Institute of Sport structure
Not in favour of an SA side in TAC Cup as it would be put too much if an impact on school life. An RAA Cup in SA, TAC Cup in Vic, RAC Cup in WA. Team number based on participation. In SA and WA you would start with about 4 clubs.
Players do not have to be exclusive to their Cup club. Say you had the Hills Rangers in SA wiyhin the RAA Cup. The kid could still move out to Sturt juniors or Scotch College when not playing for the Rangers, selection based on performance and being identified in the elite program, much like Institute of Sport structure
- Moderator
- #112
I actually posted something similar in another thread, but will repeat it here.
My son is 16 and has gone through the junior club system since he was 6 and then right through private school football (until he did his ACL).
I have been massively underwhelmed in what I have seen of the junior development system in SA. Most of the suburban clubs appear to be run financially on the bones of their ass and rely essentially on volunteers to operate. The coaching and development in the early years for kids is essentially handled by parents.
Once they hit around 13 they get the opportunity to get on one of the SANFL development squads, but from experience even that is only really a token experience comprising of a couple of training sessions and one or two mickey mouse trial games, but not a lot of individual development is given to the players.
My son goes to CBC and has played in the A grade since year 8 (he also played with about 5 kids who are currently playing u16 and u17 with SANFL clubs) and has always been coached by a teacher at the school.
Private school footy in SA is supposed to be the elite competition for budding AFL draftees yet we have teams that are coached by English and Maths teachers and the whole system is very poorly run and organised.
From my observations I think things are terribly wrong with the junior development in SA and believe that it's been neglected to a degree by the SANFL almost as though it's a hot potato that everyone wants to pass off to someone else to deal with.
When potential draftees have spent about 95% of their developmental years being coached by random parents and teachers from their high school I think that says a lot about why the number of potential draftees seem to be continually dropping.
My son is 16 and has gone through the junior club system since he was 6 and then right through private school football (until he did his ACL).
I have been massively underwhelmed in what I have seen of the junior development system in SA. Most of the suburban clubs appear to be run financially on the bones of their ass and rely essentially on volunteers to operate. The coaching and development in the early years for kids is essentially handled by parents.
Once they hit around 13 they get the opportunity to get on one of the SANFL development squads, but from experience even that is only really a token experience comprising of a couple of training sessions and one or two mickey mouse trial games, but not a lot of individual development is given to the players.
My son goes to CBC and has played in the A grade since year 8 (he also played with about 5 kids who are currently playing u16 and u17 with SANFL clubs) and has always been coached by a teacher at the school.
Private school footy in SA is supposed to be the elite competition for budding AFL draftees yet we have teams that are coached by English and Maths teachers and the whole system is very poorly run and organised.
From my observations I think things are terribly wrong with the junior development in SA and believe that it's been neglected to a degree by the SANFL almost as though it's a hot potato that everyone wants to pass off to someone else to deal with.
When potential draftees have spent about 95% of their developmental years being coached by random parents and teachers from their high school I think that says a lot about why the number of potential draftees seem to be continually dropping.
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Yes but if he goes to scotch that's where he plays first and the other two second
Scotch isn't one of the strong schools so they may allow him to neglect his school duties but PAC or StPeters or SHC wouldn't allow it
So these colleges wouldnt allow them to neglect their schooling anyway
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Or if he went to Immanuel he gets Brett Chalmers as the coach
CBC is a div 2,college team the Duv 1 teams are rostrevor stpeters PAC stmicks SHC Immanuel
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- Moderator
- #115
That might be the case, but the fact remains that the best players don't always play for those schools. I always assumed that the best players got scholarships for those schools but that's no longer the case.
Case in point is that I'm a relative of someone who will potentially be the top SA youngster in next year's draft and he isn't going to any of those schools.
The problem is that not enough is done by the SANFL to ensure that the top SA talent is being nurtured and developed and way too much is left to local clubs (parents) and schools (mainly teachers).
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I agree but it wouldnt be too hard to see where the kids drafted out of SA went to school
Henley high had some good success a few years back
We know burton went SHC and Haywood went to StPeters
Might have a look tommorow and see if there is a pattern
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I'd be interested as to what clubs were involved in your experiences.
From my understanding each SANFL club receives about $80k from the AFL (probably via the SANFL), for their junior programmes, that may be just the U18's but I think it's all encompassing.
That's a pittance, compare that to the funding that TAC teams get.
I don't really care if there's a TAC style comp in SA, we see f-all of any decent U18 player anyway what with school duties, national comps and bull$hit AFL trips to France and Ireland.....WTF?
If the AFL are only concerned with putting real money into TAC style comps as compared to the necessary money required in SA and WA at the moment, then it's they that are derelict in their duties re junior development in SA. It's an arm wrestle that is formatted for one designed outcome and that's a pretty pathetic circumstance for kids coming through at the moment.
But you know, as long as the AFL players get their pay increases at the behest of junior development and the welfare of state league players then who the f*** gives a $hit when it's easier to blame struggling state league clubs that have everything stacked against them on and off the field.
I'm an Adelaide supporter but f*** I hate the AFL, the corrupt nature of its foundation and its unwillingness to change to a true wholistic national comp that embraces Aussie Rules in all its forms and all histories.
I don't have that much of an issue with the funding given to the NEAFL and the northern states
The afl is about market share TV deals and ratings, we as a state don't appeal in terms of financial clout
So funding will go to those states as it's a business
If people want to volunteer and support grass roots here un SA go for it
NSW and QLD will never ever ever have what we have in football and our relationship with the sport
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Sure, nor do I but it's a bit thin for people to lump blame on state league clubs when they're deliberately not getting the necessary funding.
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Funding is clearly going were the almighty buck is
It makes sense for the AFL to invest where the population is
It also makes sense that due to lack of investment you can't develop as you want in the lesser markets
These two go hand in hand
If people can't see that they have half a brain
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- Moderator
- #121
It's not even that so much, but it's the lack of development and support of players during their formative years is what is truly concerning.
Not sure what happens in Victoria, but in SA I think there is something wrong with the system when we're relying on Johnny's dad who's never played football at any significant level to develop our future football stars during their formative football years.
The SANFL seems to leave everything until right at the end before they become involved.
This may actually change now that the junior leagues are no longer autonomous from the SANFL which happened this year, gone are all the old NEMJFL and equivalents and now it's all controlled directly by the SANFL.
Many of the recent comments come back to leagues versus development. The top tier leagues (AFL as tier 1 and then the VFL,SANFL, WAFL as tier 2) focus on their competition and marketability of their product. This is what they should do.
The commissions should focus on the state of the game and player development in their respective spheres. Should the SA football commission focus on elite player development in SA, yes it should, but also recognise that this will largely be for the benefit of the AFL. So the responsibility should be shared between the AFL commission and SA Football commission.
The answer is two fold.
The leagues should bugger off and not be part of early player development other than when they hit their leagues, and even then it should be governed by the commission and implemented by the league.
Secondly, there needs to be a percentage model for revenue to be allocated to player development. Its called a future fund and it should have specific measures and KPIs
We do it in business and this business of football is not all about media deals and high laid professionals
The commissions should focus on the state of the game and player development in their respective spheres. Should the SA football commission focus on elite player development in SA, yes it should, but also recognise that this will largely be for the benefit of the AFL. So the responsibility should be shared between the AFL commission and SA Football commission.
The answer is two fold.
The leagues should bugger off and not be part of early player development other than when they hit their leagues, and even then it should be governed by the commission and implemented by the league.
Secondly, there needs to be a percentage model for revenue to be allocated to player development. Its called a future fund and it should have specific measures and KPIs
We do it in business and this business of football is not all about media deals and high laid professionals
This business of football unfortunately is all about media deals and market share
If you are honest you would recognise the only way the AFL will survive and grow and it needs to grow as when you create such a monster it needs to be fed, is where market share can be made be increased and there is plenty of it
With over 50 % of Australia's population north of Victoria and minimal market share held and 7% if Australia's population in SA where we are saturated market share
How hard would you have to look in your business model to see where to invest your capital to get a return
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Marty i agree, but I separate my discussion in football slong yhe same lines as a business, the operations and board have shared objectives but differing functions.
The AFL can be as big as it can be as a league and in turn the commission best serves to support that drive. In the northern states the governing body hasnt existed so the AFL has stepped in.
The problem is the the league (operations) and commission (board) are too hard to distinguish.
100% spot on and reflects my experience with my lad. Even though he went to SHC (where they can do Football as a subject FFS) the coaching was no better than any junior ammo club and was very focussed on winning, or specifically about beating Rostrevor and the Kilmore trip to Vic. Anthony Goodrich has been coach there for about 100 years, but is very much invested in winning the college comp. There was no "development" and to be honest, at times Goodrich was just dialling it in.
He also went through the SANFL system, starting at U12 development squad with Sturt, which feeds into a carnival (from which they pick a state team that competes nationally) which then flowed through meaningless development squads at u13 and u14, at which time we moved and he got picked up at West for u15. At u16 they have a comp after some "trials" through which they cull their Dev squad down from about 50 to about 30. He played in that and then went into their U18 "centre of excellence" (lol) and played in that for 2 years while also playing at SHC. He was at West during Andy Collins time at the club, and Greg Mellor was the U18 coach in his first year before he left for Richmond, with Jarrod Harkness (now AFC footy analyst) taking over. Greg was a brilliant coach, Jarrod not so much.
Through all that time, with all those coaches, the focus was always on winning. Andy Collins actually put in place a club wide "structure" of how he wanted all teams at West to play. This filtered all the way down to u16s and was put in place regardless of the make up of the junior squads and the needs of the players. It was ridiculous and a lot of really good kids' development suffered as a result. West had a stated objective of developing West Adelaide league players, to the detriment of the kids in the squad. Ironically, not many of those kids went on to play league at West, despite many being good enough. Most walked away from the club after U18s and some (including my son) stopped playing altogether. So for all their efforts, West really got stuff all out of all that development spend and only one kid got picked up out of the 100s that went through my lads age group at West, Rory Laird.
My view, having been involved in the Junior programs at 2 SANFL clubs, is that the money is utterly wasted. It's a system applicable.to.another time, when the SANFL was the pinnacle of footy for a kid in SA. It doesn't work in a national context, is amateurish and underfunded. Hell, at Sturt, there was one lady volunteer who coordinated ALL the junior footy for that club - Auskick, Primary school, SAPSASA, development squads, Umpires for all grades, everything. One person, unpaid. She was a saint, but one person running all of that is not the way to get the best out of the kids in that zone. It was ridiculous.
The problem is, how does the state instigate any change? There's so much vested interest and so little desire to spend money that there's no impetus to change the current system. This is where the AFL is failing, because this is football heartland and the numbers playing and watching football are diminishing. If the talent pools in SA and WA diminish, the entire AFL talent pool decreases.
There used to be a national body that oversaw the rules and administration of the game. It was called the NFL and ran until the late 80s I think, before the VFL basically took over by pulling out of the NFL night series. The VFL started their custodianship of the game by pushing the NFL aside, raping the state leagues of top end talent, expanding into heartland states effectively killing the SANFL and WAFL, and ultimately becoming the admistrators of the game via the national competition. I may be old and bitter, but the VFL/AFL owes the kids in SA and WA the same development money and opportunities as the Vic kids and the northern states kids. The problem now is that the SANFL and WAFL are so invested in their own leagues, there's noone pushing the AFL to pull their heads out of their asses and fix what they broke 30 years ago.
Oops sorry for the rant
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