The state of the Giants and Suns

[Tasmanian saint]

There are quite a few out there.

Google is your friend.

Instead of the usual VFL fishbowl whinge, try investigating 1st.

Already have mate there’s been Dunkley and a handful of later round picks that haven’t been matched! You talk about research when your the one trying to say that a priority pick is the same as having a fs or academy pick you refuse to answer that part though

 

[Colonial]

Already have mate there’s been Dunkley and a handful of later round picks that haven’t been matched! You talk about research when your the one trying to say that a priority pick is the same as having a fs or academy pick you refuse to answer that part though

All effect the draft and push picks back.

Keep on whinging though.

 

[juss]

Tassie themselves don't want a existing club relocated, they already have two teams playing a few games there if thats what they want.

If my club relocated or folded I would just leave the game and most would follow.

Yeh I disagree. Within 5 years that's their team and I Don't think it matters.

We've had relocations before haven't we?

In 5 years time the result is the same there is a Tasmanian team, let's go with the cliched "Devils" for arguments sake, and let's pick a random colour like green. In 2025 I don't think support is any worse because another team effectively moved the licence there. The end result is the same.

 

[M Malice]

Yep, I was against the Suns coming into the competition in the 1st place but they are going nowhere in the foreseeable future, the AFL are in it for the long haul.

If it's a relocation it'll have to be one of the 9 Melbourne clubs.

The Collingwood Devils has a nice ring to it.

 

[Doashuey]

No it wouldnt simply be the worst two players in each list. There could be rules and a framework established to ensure that good players can go across. Plus of course new team would get high draft picks for a few seasons. The AFL can learn from the past with setups of all teams since 1987 and ensure that its done the right way.

If, and its a big if, but if the AFL could set it up in such a way it would be fair, what about the concept as a way forward?

How would you propose that framework looks?
If it were up to the delisting team, they would get rid of their least valuable players. If it is up to the recruiting team (Tassie) then they are picking the eyes out of each team. How does that work with contracted players? What would compensation look like when you have 18 teams all looking to be compensated from the same draft for losing contracted players or RFAs? Would the players have a say in if they want to go to Tassie? I cant see how you could possibly set this up so that Tassie would recruit a competitive team whilst other teams retain their contracted players or are reasonably compensated and the players are given the choice of weather they would like to relocate to Tassie. Any way you cut it, you will greatly piss off every club, fans and players.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

All effect the draft and push picks back.

Keep on whinging though.

I will explain it a bit simpler for to you if a team had pick ten and a fs or academy bid came before your pick it would move back one spot the player you were going to take would still be Available the only thing that changes is the number attached to that pick ! How is a priority pick the same it can’t be bid on and it’s taking a player out of the draft that would have been available it’s nothing like a fs or academy pick you know your 100-% wrong!

 

[MemoryLane]

Yeh I disagree. Within 5 years that's their team and I Don't think it matters.

We've had relocations before haven't we?

In 5 years time the result is the same there is a Tasmanian team, let's go with the cliched "Devils" for arguments sake, and let's pick a random colour like green. In 2025 I don't think support is any worse because another team effectively moved the licence there. The end result is the same.

Just stop. At every single community meeting down in Tas in the last 15 years (i attended each one until i moved to Vic in 17) the topic of relocated teams came up and you couldn't find a soul willing to support it.

The mentality is that Tassie wants it's own club to build it's own history and connect with Tasmania's own rich history. People down there don't want hand me down clubs that have failed. Relocation happened before in the infancy of the AFL, but since the two newest clubs were created.

Tasmania has long been neglected and the people of Tas have long been disillusioned with the attitude of the AFL execs. Now that the AFL has created a team in relative
footy backwaters western sydney and gold coast, to then turn around and offer a traditionally footy state Tasmania a relocation will not be met with enthusiasm. Not least because everyone in Tas has a team already and so there will be already inherent bias against an existing club.

You can shout all day long about it being no different but it is. That's how the people of Tasmania feel about it. I doubt you'll find any city in Australia willing to be Gold Coast's hand me down.

But let's imagine there was SOME grassroots support for relocation. Relocated clubs like South Melbourne and Fitzroy had long and storied histories. Proud moments, flags and club legends. History, that while not native to your city, you can still be proud of.

Gold Coast has been a basket case since inception. What history would anyone take from that club? No flags or finals, no club legends save for a bald headed flog who cashed in and pissed off and every captain since followed suit within a couple of years. Wowee, get around it.

 

[citizen-erased]

i can 16 a side coming in as a way of breaking congestion.
But not for expansion

A tassie team will see a licence handed to them and one taken away from an existing club.

 

[mxett]

16 with 2 on the bench. Delist 4 from each list. Tas to take their pick from delisted players plus draft concessions plus increased salary cap to poach free agents

 

[Colonial]

I will explain it a bit simpler for to you if a team had pick ten and a fs or academy bid came before your pick it would move back one spot the player you were going to take would still be Available the only thing that changes is the number attached to that pick ! How is a priority pick the same it can’t be bid on and it’s taking a player out of the draft that would have been available it’s nothing like a fs or academy pick you know your 100-% wrong!

Keep on trying

 

[Blackhawk42]

I'm not sure you know how history works. Nothing dissolves it's always there. Things change though not every club is going to be around or the same forever.

But if you moved North down there with the expectation their supporters would stay on board, you couldn't possibly believe that would be maintained if 'in 5 years it's a brand new team'.

Also if Richmond is such a strong brand, why couldn't they relocate and keep the Tiger name? Would have a huge supporter base from the beginning and a link to Tassie with the Tiger name.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Is Gold Coast the team most likely to fold? Yes

No team is likely to fold. Irrelevant question.

Will the AFL change 100+ years of history and alter the number of players on the field? No

Every rule change is altering 100 years of history. Fitzroy had 100 years of history too and the AFL simply threw them in the bin.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Keep on trying

all good bro i wont bother its a pretty simple thing to understand your obviously new to the the game you will get your head around it in time !

 

[Andre]

I am sick of calls for my team to be relocated to Tasmania.

The AFL should just announce that at the start of the next broadcast deal there will be a Tasmanian team.

At same time they should reduce the amount of players on the field to 16.

So each team can get delist 2 players.
Thats 36 players. Almost a full squad of players so no real dilution of talent.

Then we can see how Tassie goes along with clearing the air around the future of my team.

And yes there can be a bye each week.
They can schedule the new Tas team and gold coast as having the bye in round 1 and final round as unlikely to make finals.

Discuss

Football questions:
1. Does Tasmania deserve a side? Yes.
2. If it's a true AFL, rather than still a VFL + extras are there too many sides based in Victoria? Yes.

Now given the A(/V)FL primary concern is money:
1. Do the AFL need 2 QLD sides for maximum TV rights? Yes.
2. Would relocating one of the smaller Vic clubs to Tasmania dilute the TV rights? No. Further the AFL needs 2 sides from QLD, NSW, WA, SA to help maximise TV rights, there's no point suggesting relocate one of these sides. The AFL isn't going to do anything that makes the money coming in go down.

A Tasmanian side needs a combination of national sponsors and local. Local sponsorship of the Tassie government replacing paying the Hawks / North and instead their own side covers a sizeable chunk of it. Add in various Tassie based sponsors. Then they are just as attractive nationally as the smallest Vic clubs. They aren't going to compete against the likes of Collingwood or Essendon, any more than North or St. Kilda are stealing sponsors from them now.

And for the existing smaller Vic. clubs.
1. Does having one less competitor for the Vic. based sponsors increase your chance of staying afloat financially? Yes.

We don't need to throw out what sides look like. Relocate a Vic side, given that (then) Tassie side a Tasmanian Academy, as per the NSW and QLD sides and let it go. Win's all around IMO.

 

[Papa G]

The White Knights Brayshaw Ruse and the AFL falling for it/not having the guts to go through with it has to be one of the dumbest moves since the Trojans opened the gates to let a wooden horse in. Gold Coast would have openly taken a relocated team, the eternal North Melbourne problem would have been fixed, a less rushed approach to putting a team in Western Sydney would have occurred, there would be room for a stand alone Tasmanian side and the league would edged closer to be more balanced and national.

 

[Gralin]

Oh I understand the fishbowl viewpoints of Vflers quite well.

Moving on thanks

 

[juss]

But if you moved North down there with the expectation their supporters would stay on board, you couldn't possibly believe that would be maintained if 'in 5 years it's a brand new team'.

Also if Richmond is such a strong brand, why couldn't they relocate and keep the Tiger name? Would have a huge supporter base from the beginning and a link to Tassie with the Tiger name.

If you think it's a good idea then pitch it. I've got no issue with people promoting their suggestions.

 

[juss]

Just stop. At every single community meeting down in Tas in the last 15 years (i attended each one until i moved to Vic in 17) the topic of relocated teams came up and you couldn't find a soul willing to support it.

The mentality is that Tassie wants it's own club to build it's own history and connect with Tasmania's own rich history. People down there don't want hand me down clubs that have failed. Relocation happened before in the infancy of the AFL, but since the two newest clubs were created.

Tasmania has long been neglected and the people of Tas have long been disillusioned with the attitude of the AFL execs. Now that the AFL has created a team in relative
footy backwaters western sydney and gold coast, to then turn around and offer a traditionally footy state Tasmania a relocation will not be met with enthusiasm. Not least because everyone in Tas has a team already and so there will be already inherent bias against an existing club.

You can shout all day long about it being no different but it is. That's how the people of Tasmania feel about it. I doubt you'll find any city in Australia willing to be Gold Coast's hand me down.

But let's imagine there was SOME grassroots support for relocation. Relocated clubs like South Melbourne and Fitzroy had long and storied histories. Proud moments, flags and club legends. History, that while not native to your city, you can still be proud of.

Gold Coast has been a basket case since inception. What history would anyone take from that club? No flags or finals, no club legends save for a bald headed flog who cashed in and pissed off and every captain since followed suit within a couple of years. Wowee, get around it.

Okay, so are you against a club like GC folding and then a new Tassie club being created? I'm perfectly happy with that suggestion too. For me a relocation makes more sense because there will be some existing supporters and like it or not there will be some Tassies that jump on too. To suggest every single Tasmanian will turn there back on it is naive and over time the local support would only increase as more history in the state is created. Success helps too. A lot of people will jump on anything if it's successful.

 

[Muddiemoose]

I think people are in love with the fairytale of a tassie team but in reality it will probably have greater player retention issues than the Gold Coast have

 

[MemoryLane]

Okay, so are you against a club like GC folding and then a new Tassie club being created? I'm perfectly happy with that suggestion too. For me a relocation makes more sense because there will be some existing supporters and like it or not there will be some Tassies that jump on too. To suggest every single Tasmanian will turn there back on it is naive and over time the local support would only increase as more history in the state is created. Success helps too. A lot of people will jump on anything if it's successful.

They won't embrace a failed team with no history thats been dumped on them as a consolation prize. Here look its a dysfunctional club - good luck!

If the Kangas or Saints were to be relocated then yeah, maybe over time attitudes would change. Maybe.

Ultimately though in the short term there would be a huge backlash from the public given that the Gold Coast weren't a relocated club when they were born.

Maybe in the long term a historically rich and already functioning club would gain appeal.

But not in a million years a Gold Coast failure.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

So each team will delist 2 players they dont want to make up a Tassy team?
Sound plan.
GC had their pick of the top talent from consecutive draft years and haven't been able to produce a finals campaign yet you think hobbling together a team with the rejects from each club will work?

It's basically how Brissie started. From memory David O'Keefe and Stephen Reynoldson were Geelong's contribution.

 

[MemoryLane]

I think people are in love with the fairytale of a tassie team but in reality it will probably have greater player retention issues than the Gold Coast have

This. What player would ever want to move to Hobart to live? At least the Gold Coast has a scene attractive to young males. All Tasmania have is overly fertile young women looking to become stay at home mums in Glenorchy.

 

[Tas]

Lol. Gold Coast would be up there with the teams least likely to fold.

The AFL aren’t getting out of there.

It is less about the AFL Commission and more about the AFL clubs. I don't think AFL clubs will oppose financial assistance to any club that is struggling financially, it is when a club turns into a basket case that people don't want to seen to be wasting money on a lost cause.

I think as long as broadcasting deals remain strong we can wear the odd basket case, however, if GC remains a basketcase then it is never going to achieve it's intended purpose.

The bigger issue is the club has been shithouse at developing the talent it had at it's disposal. I remember talking to disgruntled Brisbane fans on their forum after we pumped them by 80 odd points and said the side has good young kids and had turned the corner in terms of hemorrhaging talent and they said what talent? I listed guys like Hipwood and others that I saw a lot of promise in a few years ago and was basically laughed at. I don't think they are laughing now, or laughing for different reasons.

The issue is, the club doesn't need #1 pick handouts. The club wouldn't be a basketcase if they had decent coaches, decent development staff. They have butchered more talent since their inception than we have the last 50 years. When i see the club asking for priority pick handouts, I have zero confidence that they have a clue what they are doing. The club needs some pride. The club needs to turn the talent they already have and will get without handouts into good players.

Before the AFL writes blank cheques, they need to clean out the club of dead wood from top to bottom, because there is a zero confidence vibe coming from that place.

 

[Colonial]

Moving on thanks

Gladly.

 

[Tas]

The White Knights Brayshaw Ruse and the AFL falling for it/not having the guts to go through with it has to be one of the dumbest moves since the Trojans opened the gates to let a wooden horse in. Gold Coast would have openly taken a relocated team, the eternal North Melbourne problem would have been fixed, a less rushed approach to putting a team in Western Sydney would have occurred, there would be room for a stand alone Tasmanian side and the league would edged closer to be more balanced and national.

The White Knights wasn't a ruse, it was one of many suggestions JB raised but it wasn't needed, or desirable. A club should never be dependent on a small section of it's supporter base. We applied an optional debt reduction surcharge to memberships and the debt is now gone, proof that it wasn't needed. Even Caroline Wilson has let go of this.

An AFL club isn't something the AFL can dictate something like a merger or relocation, the worst the AFL could do is to provide no assistance. We have never been in severe financial hardship. We could easily balance our books without any future fund distribution, however, the AFL made a commitment to the AFLPA that players would get 95% of the cap and clubs would be at close as possible to the soft cap for football department spending, it has some responsibilities for commitments it makes to third parties which dictate what clubs spend when they have no legal obligation to.

I think Tasmania is too much of a distraction for my club, we have seen the significant increase in membership from the Wyndham region already, far surpassing what the club or even the AFL anticipated. You profit form it in the short-term, but it is a distraction we could do without.

The investment of time and resources needs to be performed in the other surrounding regions, while we are never going to convert a massive slice of support away from other existing clubs, we are taking a significantly larger slice from Wydnham than other clubs thanks to the grass roots development there, because a lot of the new citizens are migrants they do not have traditional supporting preferences.

I think we are on the right track, I just wish we were more focused on other high growth regions around Melbourne at the same time which would increase the rate of growth. While I don't think the general BF pundit has the IQ to grasp what I have said, thankfully all club presidents are more switched on and all are on the same page when it comes to the importance of the Melbourne market and the importance of the smaller clubs. Would they have pressured the AFL to acquire Docklands and to provide it as clean as humanly possible to the tenants if they weren't on the same page?