Opinion The state of the Giants and Suns

WillHayward

Club Legend
Aug 13, 2018
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Australians are so weird when it comes to their footy. Is there another country that is divided as us when it comes to a national sport? Imagine if half of the USA hated the NBA.
There are probably 300 countries with pro sports leagues.

Your only comparison is the NBA. One league in one country....

Ok..I'll bite.

90% of Americans could not give 2 fu**s about the NBA.

Nothing weird about our country.

I will say. Per capita we have a lot of pro football codes.
 

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abcde12345

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May 15, 2018
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Impressive post and logically sound. Appears quite sensible .
On the surface.

But if you think you can compare Sydney and the Gold Coast you are seriously delusional.

The geographic, economic and cultural differences are stark. Huge. A chasm. Non comparable.

If you think the AFL simply need to copy the Sydney story and blueprint for a repeat on the Gold Coast you are horribly mistaken.
Don't disagree with anything here to be honest.

My post was more with regards to actually giving it the generations it needs to get a supporter base. Gold Coast is definitely extremely different culturally and economically to Sydney, so the exact approach to engaging the community will be very different.

On a related note, it's worth pointing out that the Titans are looking at rebranding, filling the role the NRL desires of a second Brisbane based team, with eight games at Suncorp and the rest on the GC. I can't remember where I read it, so can't post a source, but allegedly TV networks have told the NRL that 16 teams is the ideal number for their competition (hence why the Sydney relocation drama occurred earlier in the year), which might be the reason they are looking to relocate the Titans instead of introducing a new Brisbane and Perth club.

Looms as a big opportunity for the AFL in my opinion. A lot of goodwill will come the way of the AFL if they stick by the community when the Titans go off on their SEQ adventures.

Will obviously still take time though. All focus should be on not being so bad on the field.
 

Tasmanian saint

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Apr 24, 2018
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Don't disagree with anything here to be honest.

My post was more with regards to actually giving it the generations it needs to get a supporter base. Gold Coast is definitely extremely different culturally and economically to Sydney, so the exact approach to engaging the community will be very different.

On a related note, it's worth pointing out that the Titans are looking at rebranding, filling the role the NRL desires of a second Brisbane based team, with eight games at Suncorp and the rest on the GC. I can't remember where I read it, so can't post a source, but allegedly TV networks have told the NRL that 16 teams is the ideal number for their competition (hence why the Sydney relocation drama occurred earlier in the year), which might be the reason they are looking to relocate the Titans instead of introducing a new Brisbane and Perth club.

Looms as a big opportunity for the AFL in my opinion. A lot of goodwill will come the way of the AFL if they stick by the community when the Titans go off on their SEQ adventures.

Will obviously still take time though. All focus should be on not being so bad on the field.
i look at it the other way if a nrl club in leage terriotory is struggling this bad that relocation is looking likely the afl might not admit it but they would have to be greatly concerned re the suns moving forward !
 

Walshawk

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Mar 24, 2017
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Wikipedia is your friend Walshawk might want to check out the list of former AFL/VFL players as well as
the 2006 merger proposal with a Victorian club, hell they even welcome 2019 Gold Coast members.
Sure they have money, and have long been the strongest GC local club, but to say that they had a decent supporter base is untrue.
 

Consolaçao

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May 22, 2007
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Pretty sure the Southport Sharks have been around longer as has the Gabba, you don't have to relocate
the portables or upgrade it.
This ‘Southport Sharks’ thing is silly... How many people you think they get to their games? Probably a few hundred. People talk about them like they’re the Port Adelaide Magpies... it’s laughable.
And you do realise the Gold Coast and Brisbane are physically seperate cities? You expect Gold Coast people to ensure a 2-3 hour round trip every home game?
 

abcde12345

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i look at it the other way if a nrl club in leage terriotory is struggling this bad that relocation is looking likely the afl might not admit it but they would have to be greatly concerned re the suns moving forward !
The issues the NRL face are significantly different to those of the AFL. Immediate term financial stability is of a lot more concern for their organisation than it is for the AFL. This means they have to (and have been) sacrificing long term growth potential in order to ensure the current clubs and league can stay afloat.

The concern of the NRL beyond current financial stability will be getting a stronger profile across all metro markets. There is a lot more money (both corporate/sponsorship as well as TV) in the metro markets than the regional markets, hence why the NRL is looking at ways to bring a second presence in Brisbane as well as a presence in Perth (add in favourable time zone options as well).

The NRL is also suffering from a stagnating/diminishing player base. Threats to standard of play is a much more real consideration in that sport, especially over the long term, and factoring in talent drain from rich RU clubs in Europe.

The AFL should not be concerned with these issues. The AFL has the means of guaranteeing the financial stability of all clubs, and has a consistently improving player base. The focus should clearly be on maximising the potential for the sport to grow long term, both in talent and money. These clubs are created for this purpose, with the expectation that they would be a financial drain in the medium-long term.
 

NoobPie

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Sep 21, 2016
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i look at it the other way if a nrl club in leage terriotory is struggling this bad that relocation is looking likely the afl might not admit it but they would have to be greatly concerned re the suns moving forward !
I would say that is a silly way of looking at it.

The Titans are a privately owned franchise. The suns are a top down club with an intergenerational plan

There would be nothing better for the suns than the Titans partially or fully vacating the field
 

Consolaçao

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May 22, 2007
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The issues the NRL face are significantly different to those of the AFL. Immediate term financial stability is of a lot more concern for their organisation than it is for the AFL. This means they have to (and have been) sacrificing long term growth potential in order to ensure the current clubs and league can stay afloat.

The concern of the NRL beyond current financial stability will be getting a stronger profile across all metro markets. There is a lot more money (both corporate/sponsorship as well as TV) in the metro markets than the regional markets, hence why the NRL is looking at ways to bring a second presence in Brisbane as well as a presence in Perth (add in favourable time zone options as well).

The NRL is also suffering from a stagnating/diminishing player base. Threats to standard of play is a much more real consideration in that sport, especially over the long term, and factoring in talent drain from rich RU clubs in Europe.

The AFL should not be concerned with these issues. The AFL has the means of guaranteeing the financial stability of all clubs, and has a consistently improving player base. The focus should clearly be on maximising the potential for the sport to grow long term, both in talent and money. These clubs are created for this purpose, with the expectation that they would be a financial drain in the medium-long term.
Good post, I agree with most of it except the improving player base... I think in coming years fewer kids will be playing team sport into their teens and those that do will have more choice than ever.
But this just emphasises why it’s so important to have those teams in northern states. Even if these clubs lose money in perpetuity, if their presence delivers a situation in the 2030s where 15-20 NSW/QLD players are being drafted every year, the investment has paid off in spades.
 

NoobPie

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Sep 21, 2016
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The issues the NRL face are significantly different to those of the AFL. Immediate term financial stability is of a lot more concern for their organisation than it is for the AFL. This means they have to (and have been) sacrificing long term growth potential in order to ensure the current clubs and league can stay afloat.

The concern of the NRL beyond current financial stability will be getting a stronger profile across all metro markets. There is a lot more money (both corporate/sponsorship as well as TV) in the metro markets than the regional markets, hence why the NRL is looking at ways to bring a second presence in Brisbane as well as a presence in Perth (add in favourable time zone options as well).

The NRL is also suffering from a stagnating/diminishing player base. Threats to standard of play is a much more real consideration in that sport, especially over the long term, and factoring in talent drain from rich RU clubs in Europe.

The AFL should not be concerned with these issues. The AFL has the means of guaranteeing the financial stability of all clubs, and has a consistently improving player base. The focus should clearly be on maximising the potential for the sport to grow long term, both in talent and money. These clubs are created for this purpose, with the expectation that they would be a financial drain in the medium-long term.
Great posting
 

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abcde12345

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Good post, I agree with most of it except the improving player base... I think in coming years fewer kids will be playing team sport into their teens and those that do will have more choice than ever.
But this just emphasises why it’s so important to have those teams in northern states. Even if these clubs lose money in perpetuity, if their presence delivers a situation in the 2030s where 15-20 NSW/QLD players are being drafted every year, the investment has paid off in spades.
Part in bold 100%.

Improving player base is with regards to trends over the past decade or so in grassroots, particularly up here in the Northern states. Growth up here has been significant. AR has the benefit up here of being "the safe sport" (the way the AFL has marketed the game as safe is pretty remarkable to be honest), and is a common choice for parents as a rugby alternative (soccer and basketball being the other obvious benefactors here).

While AR has been maintaining its player base in the southern states, and significantly improving the player base in the northern states, the rugby codes have been diminishing in their heartlands without any notable gains outside of these areas. In my eyes this is the biggest threat to the NRL (not AFL or soccer), and an area the AFL can't drop the ball in.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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Apr 20, 2006
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Good post, I agree with most of it except the improving player base... I think in coming years fewer kids will be playing team sport into their teens and those that do will have more choice than ever.
But this just emphasises why it’s so important to have those teams in northern states. Even if these clubs lose money in perpetuity, if their presence delivers a situation in the 2030s where 15-20 NSW/QLD players are being drafted every year, the investment has paid off in spades.
Talented kids will keep playing and that’s what the AFL care about. It’s similar to American football and the Rugby codes here. If you are a top sportsman you will keep with it.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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Apr 20, 2006
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Member numbers for all clubs are a joke. A sticker member is counted as one, like ticketed member.

The number just gives you an idea of how many email accounts a club's sponsors and other 3rd parties can potentially bombard with spam
Well no as they don’t count them if they are under $50 or the ridiculous pet memberships.
 

Cmarsh

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Apr 23, 2012
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Australians are so weird when it comes to their footy. Is there another country that is divided as us when it comes to a national sport? Imagine if half of the USA hated the NBA.
Ice hockey in the northern parts of the US is pretty popular whilst in the South its quite the opposite.

Rugby league in England also comes to mind. Quite prominent in certain parts of the North of the country but barely rates a mention in the South.
 
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Brasher

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Ice hockey in the northern parts of the US is pretty popular whilst in the South its quite the opposite.

Rugby league in England also comes to mind. Quite prominent in certain parts of the North of the country but barely rates a mention in the South.
This is an interesting point and highlights why northern AFL clubs "support" should not be measured on membership numbers, crowd attendance, short term profitability like we do with the southern states.

Whilst NHL may not be as popular in the south as it is north and in Canada they still have a lot of teams located there in "traditional" ice skating locations like Florida, Southern California, Arizona and North Carolina. It's all about local viewer participation and you are more likely to watch your local team if your city has one, regardless of your interest in the sport.

The safe bet is your unlikely to watch if you have neither an interest in the sport or a local team to follow.

In the end that is what drives the one KPI that that the AFL cares about....TV ratings. It's also pretty hard to secure national sponsorship to the corporate world if you can not offer national coverage
 

Roobs321

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Suns have lost their last 13 games, which is their longest losing streak since their 21 game losing streak from Rnd 18 2011 to Rnd 15 2012. Giants had a comparable 21 game losing streak across their 1st & 2nd seasons in 2012-13. Since then, I believe the longest losing streak by any club had been 17 by the 2016 b-bombers.

Remaining fixture
7th Essendon (H)
4th Collingwood (A)
2nd Brisbane (A)
10th Hawks (A)
6th Giants (H)

Gee I hope they can win one but it isn't going to be easy. A shame, as they were great tight-finish value in the first 2 months.
 
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Pippen94

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Jun 12, 2019
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This is an interesting point and highlights why northern AFL clubs "support" should not be measured on membership numbers, crowd attendance, short term profitability like we do with the southern states.

Whilst NHL may not be as popular in the south as it is north and in Canada they still have a lot of teams located there in "traditional" ice skating locations like Florida, Southern California, Arizona and North Carolina. It's all about local viewer participation and you are more likely to watch your local team if your city has one, regardless of your interest in the sport.

The safe bet is your unlikely to watch if you have neither an interest in the sport or a local team to follow.

In the end that is what drives the one KPI that that the AFL cares about....TV ratings. It's also pretty hard to secure national sponsorship to the corporate world if you can not offer national coverage
Ratings for AFL in northern states nonexistent.
 

Giant Pete

Premiership Player
Jan 17, 2013
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Stop giving them extra picks. Give them a big bonus in the soft cap so they have the best facilities and coaches in the league. Give them some sort of discount on mature age players or some other incentive to get more mature players there.
 

Brasher

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Stop giving them extra picks. Give them a big bonus in the soft cap so they have the best facilities and coaches in the league. Give them some sort of discount on mature age players or some other incentive to get more mature players there.
This. It's like pouring beer into a pint glass with a hole in it and wondering why the kegs are empty yet no one's drunk.
 

Tasmanian saint

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Don't engage with that potato, they have a huge agenda against GWSs existence and nothing will change their mind.
explain how his post is not some what correct ?? I don’t hate Gws but one of major reason used for exspansion in to those markets was creating an extra game therefore larger tv rights -higher ratings for the networks in a key market so stating a fact that tv ratings have not improved in nsw since they came in like the afl said would happen you can’t accuse someone of hate just because they are stating a truthful fact that you can’t come back at or don’t like!
 

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