Opinion The state of the Giants and Suns

General Giant

Hall of Famer
Apr 12, 2012
31,231
22,627
AFL Club
GWS
I'll give you that but it isn't the first time the GWS midfield just doesn't stand up. I always though Shiel was overrated for that reason as he never played well when the chips were down.
Don't get me wrong I'm furious at the effort and heart shown by the players.

A full strength midfield has stood up. Not all the time but their have been moments that they have shown it at the death. Such as finals against the Swans, Geelong earlier in the year etc etc.

Problem is we have a coach who has no clue.
 

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AuntyBlindEye

All Australian
Jul 19, 2019
684
1,390
AFL Club
Richmond
A correct one to.
Well. I think it comes down to perception more than anything. I've lived in all states except tassie and I noticed every state having a bias towards themselves. I'm also able to recognise that given over half the competition resides in vic, there is likely to be more coverage on vic teams. But I know being a supporter of a Victorian club I am immediately disqualified from this discussion.
 

Harvey to Hayes

All Australian
Jun 8, 2003
832
258
Brisbane
AFL Club
St Kilda
I
If awful cultures meant clubs should be disbanded, Melbourne should've been axed a decade ago. If being an abject failure for a period meant clubs should be disbanded, St Kilda and Richmond should've been axed more than a decade ago.
This time a decade ago Saints were unbeaten 19-0 on top of the ladder, in the years before that made about four prelims, would have been a pretty harsh axing...
 

smashbox gill

Club Legend
Jun 25, 2008
2,805
5,564
Donnie
AFL Club
Carlton
In my opinion GWS should have won a flag already. Every year same thing, injuries and a lack of game plan have cost them. They need to rectify things asap or risk missing their window.

What needs to be done:
1) Review Leon Cameron: he either needs to change things up or go. He can’t keep doing the same thing. In my opinion he’s not strong tactically and therefore I think GWS need to get someone new in.

2) Review Medical Department: every year injuries cripple their season. There is something broken and they need to fix it. Overhaul is needed.

I want to see GWS win a flag but their time is running out
 

markm106

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 29, 2006
7,344
5,541
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Such small margins are in it. Last three premiers weren’t considered a chance at the start of the year. IMO Stevie J could have cost them a flag when he got suspended in 2016. He was in ripping form and I think his replacement in the prelim was Palmer. They lost to the dogs by a kick and the rest is history.
Losing Shiel in 2017 prelim didn’t help either.
You need more than a good list. They have been gifted a good list and need to make the most of it and have cards fall their way come September on the next few years. Their window will shut pretty quickly if they start to lose a few guns. It will be bloody hard to re open to.
 

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mcgarnacle

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 2, 2003
8,445
2,544
Inner West
AFL Club
Sydney
In my opinion GWS should have won a flag already. Every year same thing, injuries and a lack of game plan have cost them. They need to rectify things asap or risk missing their window.

What needs to be done:
1) Review Leon Cameron: he either needs to change things up or go. He can’t keep doing the same thing. In my opinion he’s not strong tactically and therefore I think GWS need to get someone new in.

2) Review Medical Department: every year injuries cripple their season. There is something broken and they need to fix it. Overhaul is needed.

I want to see GWS win a flag but their time is running out
This is interesting because David Joyce is highly regarded in High Performance.
 

Damon_3388

Hall of Famer
Jun 23, 2008
31,593
24,513
Headed for Kirribilli House
AFL Club
Collingwood
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IMO Stevie J could have cost them a flag when he got suspended in 2016. He was in ripping form and I think his replacement in the prelim was Palmer. They lost to the dogs by a kick and the rest is history.
The real killer there was losing Cal Ward 5 minutes into that game.
 

QuietB

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2008
21,705
25,254
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
The list has never been allowed to fully mature. And the whole time it has been maturing clubs everywhere have been picking pieces off.

It is very rare for super young teams to win premierships. Geelong could not do it. Hawthorn snagged one in 2008 but capitulated the very next year. The dogs did the same in 2017 but also capitulated the very next year - and as other posters have stated that very well could have been GWS winning the 2017 flag.

None of Colignio, Greene, Whitfield, Kelly, Hopper, Taranto are over 25 years old.

To put that in perspective Richmond had to wait until Cotchin, Rance and Reiwoldt were well into their late 20's before they could win one. Geelong definitely had to get most of their key players into their late 20's and Hawthorn had to completely reset and wait until all their key guys were late 20's as well.

GWS are babies. And because they are all so highly rated they become too expensive to keep together. So we will never know.
 

Wallaby

Norm Smith Medallist
May 8, 2007
8,535
9,438
vic
AFL Club
Richmond
Agree. They're still a year or so too young - or more importantly a few games short in experience. Their average age doesn't look too bad, but that's boosted by a few time servers in Shaw, Mumford and Deledio. Their key prime movers (Ward excepted) are still quite young. Add to that because they play very few 'big' games - ie blockbusters in front of 60,000+, they lack that regular exposure to the increase in pressure that other sides get from massive H&A games. One or two finals a year is not enough.
 

rogiebear93

Premiership Player
May 17, 2017
4,590
8,690
AFL Club
Hawthorn
It's obvious their main issue is their fitness staff and their medical team. Every year they have an influx of not only injured players, but injured star players. That needs to be looked at in a huge way. Leon Cameron is a secondary concern.
 

Johnny Karate

All Australian
Apr 13, 2015
835
2,051
AFL Club
Melbourne
Calls to axe the Suns and lamenting the Giants ‘underachievement’ are knee-jerk.

Gold Coast has suffered from a botched entry into the league for which the AFL are culpable. However, things are never as bad as they seem and can also turn around pretty quickly.

The Giants haven’t blown their window and in my opinion the idea of deliberate 5 year rebuilds are becoming increasingly old hat. With the evenness of the competition, they are probably a few tweaks and some slices of luck away from a flag, they are presently in a better position than most other clubs.

As for their long term futures it is well known that growth and success in non-traditional football states can take generations. The AFL brought these clubs in to get more TV revenue and grow the game longer term in NSW and QLD.

Online streaming could scupper the TV money angle but that doesn’t mean that AFL shouldn’t strive for having at least one game being played every weekend in every state as a key goal of running a national competition.

I suppose things could change and given the rubbery decision making of this administration it’s not impossible that they would do something like relocate the Suns to Tassie but that would say more about the stupidity of the AFL than the ‘failure’ of the Suns.
 

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
18,528
6,198
Tootgarook
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Renault F1
In my opinion GWS should have won a flag already. Every year same thing, injuries and a lack of game plan have cost them. They need to rectify things asap or risk missing their window.

What needs to be done:
1) Review Leon Cameron: he either needs to change things up or go. He can’t keep doing the same thing. In my opinion he’s not strong tactically and therefore I think GWS need to get someone new in.

2) Review Medical Department: every year injuries cripple their season. There is something broken and they need to fix it. Overhaul is needed.

I want to see GWS win a flag but their time is running out
You document very clearly why the rules for these clubs need to be different to traditional States, thats Vic, WA & SA - specifically getting rid of COLA was wrong, changing the rules on Academies was wrong,
the cap rules are wrong.
Ask yourself why a top AFL fitness type would relocate - $$$$$ money only.

We need to stop listening to clubs in the traditional clubs sooking IF we are to support these very young clubs.
 

Cleric

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 14, 2011
13,356
14,325
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
The Suns pain is going to go on for a while yet. Dew isnt the coach they need, and he got alot of players off side in his first year. Speak to someone like Jarryd Lyons and ask him to compare the professionalism of GC as a club compared with say Adelaide.
They need to follow the lead of Brisbane as a blueprint of how to get out of this mess.
Chances are they will lose either King or Luko, or both even over this and the next trade period. The inept way they delisted Lyons who if he was still there would be their best player is inexcusable. The fact they are begging for a PP when they did that is pathetic.

So now the negatives are out of they way, what should happen?
They already have an academy covering half of Qld. They should invest more heavily in this as a way of getting home grown talent in the door.
They should have an increase in their cap to allow them to target quality players.
The AFL needs to encourage and pay the wages of a high level coach to move there. Someone like Clarkson or even Paul Roos.
They need to build better facilities for training and rehabilitation. This does play into some players minds when choosing if to stay or go.
Its gonna cost a pretty penny which the AFL is going to have to pony up for.
 

Dr Tigris

Premium Platinum
Aug 19, 2009
5,837
12,824
Canberra
AFL Club
Richmond
History is playing out.

GC started with a focus on super stars and guys with strong characters, but not 'good characters'. So they did OK, but built a poor culture both on and off the field. Culture takes a while to fix, and requires a genuine long term commitment to do it. No short cuts. Young players don't want to go there. mature good leaders would rather go to a good club. GC have to first persuade players to come and then to stay. hard to build from there.

GWS focused on a good culture and long term player retention and future draft picks. They've mainly built themselves rather than buying in. And they have also worked hard to build the club off the field. So they retained players and built a strong long term squad. Their biggest problem is retaining their stars, cause they have so many. In about 5 years GWS will face their core players getting old and have to restock. But it's a damn good problem to have.
 

The_Flying_Egg

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 15, 2001
8,169
2,658
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Barnsley FC, Bulls, Heart
I think the Suns have more off field potential than the Giants. GWS are winning and have been for quite a while. but still struggle to draw a crowd. They are very reliant on Canberra, and seem to have made little impact in Western Sydney. The Suns numbers are not good, but they have been given a horrid product. If they get some success they might have more upside.
 

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