The state of the Giants and Suns

[The King!]

gws are still in contention for the top 4 this year, i think they are building off the field quite well

i wasnt big on them joining but for where they started i am impressed with the overall build, it will take time to develop a massive following

they were never taking over the world like the vic media wanted to write

but then when they don't grab the flag they cop it, freo havent won a flag yet when will they get it together?

 

[The King!]

Neither of these teams belong to any specific geographic area with any cultural affiliation.
They are merely vague areas based on a local government area.
Zero heart.

They should be called GWS LGA
Gold Coast LGA.

Just pointless vagueries.

whats west coast by that logic?
Then all the suburban clubs, how do they make it

 

[Johnny Bananas]

MFC are the foundation club that started the game. A sporting icon with a rich history of cultural significance that is embedded for all eternity.

Good grief, do you even listen to yourself? I had to try not to chunder at the sheer pretentiousness of that last sentence. Another Victorian who thinks Victoria is the centre of the universe? Melbourne were an abysmal failure in terms of club culture only a decade ago, until Paul Roos came in and threw out the dead wood. The point is a culture can be changed, and it's nothing whatsoever to do with a few blokes who died before indoor plumbing was invented.

There’s more chance of James Hird putting on the boots and playing for Essendon again then there is the Demons ever leaving this league.

Funny you say that, when they came very close to disappearing as a stand-alone club in the 90s, only being saved by the backbone of Hawthorn fans.

 

[Shane Heard]

Good grief, do you even listen to yourself? I had to try not to chunder at the sheer pretentiousness of that last sentence. Another Victorian who thinks Victoria is the centre of the universe? Melbourne were an abysmal failure in terms of club culture only a decade ago, until Paul Roos came in and threw out the dead wood. The point is a culture can be changed, and it's nothing whatsoever to do with a few blokes who died before indoor plumbing was invented.


Funny you say that, when they came very close to disappearing as a stand-alone club in the 90s, only being saved by the backbone of Hawthorn fans.

Melbourne is the centre of the universe when it comes to footy.

You might not like that idea as many others do, but it’s just the way it is and always will be.

The MFC/HFC merger was never going to happen in the end. It was desperation time and all sorts of crazy suggestions were put forth at the time.

And all credit goes to a bunch of ex players and some very loyal supporters who stepped in eventually and made sure no such nonsense was going to eventuate.

I’ll say it again...this competition is a Victorian based league with invited guests from interstate allowed to join in on the festivities and make it even stronger than before.

Victorians don’t have a problem with it.

The South Melbourne switch to Sydney was whole heartily encouraged at the time by all and sundry.

It’s all good my friend. Just enjoy barracking for your team and channel your bitterness into other more worthy concerns is my advice.

 

[RedBullRacing]

With all due respect, the Giants had two genuine cracks at the premiership. Fell just short.

 

[Upgrayedd]

GWS will be fine, This is a bullshit reaction thread after one dissapointing loss. Still a premiership contender.

GC? seem to be ever year and you can ask the question of what do they need to do? Ild be banging for a priority pick from the AFL, Flipping it into 2/3 first rounders then going to trade in 3/4 27/28 year olds from other clubs to bring some stability, They dont have a bad list however they are prone to just collapising like they did against richmone

 

[Damon_3388]

Suns had an awful culture from day one. Have been an abject failure and may as well be disbanded. Seriously. Almost ten years in and the gaffe is up.

Are they in financial trouble? Has the league suddenly withdrawn financial and administrative support? That's the only way they're going to be disbanded. Nothing to do with on-field results.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I’ll say it again...this competition is a Victorian based league with invited guests from interstate allowed to join in on the festivities and make it even stronger than before.

If you ever want to know why the rest of Australia in general, and SA and WA in particular, dislike Victoria, this piss-poor attitude is why.

 

[Shane Heard]

If you ever want to know why the rest of Australia in general, and SA and WA in particular, dislike Victoria, this piss-poor attitude is why.

Yes I understand. But life wasn’t meant to be all unicorns and rainbows now was it...

 

[raskolnikov]

The Gold Coast has always been a graveyard for sporting teams. The Titans in the NRL are in the exact same position. However I think if they persist they will eventually come good. They may have been better off turning Southport, an already successful Gold Coast club, into an AFL team, but too late now.

 

[Colonial]

LOL

Seriously you are delusional.

There is no legitimate comparison between organic clubs and your heartless monstrosity.

Add to that some facts - The Swans won 16 games in 1986. Their 5th year in Sydney. Then 15 games in 1987.

So they did quite well early.

Organic? Your club died in its home town and then died 3 times more times and was "saved"

Lol I see you look up Google. Great. It should tell you what a pathetic stain they were back in the day and if they followed your rules for "life" they would of been killed off decades ago.

Run along bandwagoner.

 

[BanjoRed]

GWS are tracking along beautifully. Almost 30,000 members is a great achievement - when compared with NRL membership numbers they would be considered the third biggest club (second biggest in NSW, only just behind South Sydney). I'd love to look 10 years into the future and see where the club is at, and more importantly the impact AFL has on both Western Sydney and Canberra's demographics.

Give Gold Coast a couple more years - I genuinely believe this current list and improved internal club policies has the makings to be a profitable and successful club in the future. They have all the makings, just desperately need some on field success soon.

Remember these clubs are a massive long-term investment by the AFL. Folding or relocating the Gold Coast, as many BigFooty members suggest, is a knee-jerk reaction and waves the white flag. There is too much financial investment and infrastructure set up on the Gold Coast to give up now.

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

Serious question: There's no doubt that 30k members is an achievement to be proud of. But with that level of membership, and their excellent performances over the last few years, why are their crowds so bad?

 

[Colonial]

Serious question: There's no doubt that 30k members is an achievement to be proud of. But with that level of membership, and their excellent performances over the last few years, why are their crowds so bad?

Massive majority are 3 game members.

Dipping their toe in so to speak.

It's about converting them as well as the growth in New members.

To be fair the Tigers For instance have 100k members and 35k don't seem to show up and that's taking into account that they have an awful lot of derbies down there to help crowds.

 

[Dede]

Massive majority are 3 game members.

Dipping their toe in so to speak.

It's about converting them as well as the growth in New members.

To be fair the Tigers For instance have 100k members and 35k don't seem to show up and that's taking into account that they have an awful lot of derbies down there to help crowds.

Non Sydney resident but id transport a problem too ?

Just on the suns didn't they make just under a million dollars in profit from sponsors ticket sales all that ? Which is miles behind every other club ?

 

[demondavey]

Are they in financial trouble? Has the league suddenly withdrawn financial and administrative support? That's the only way they're going to be disbanded. Nothing to do with on-field results.

Mate, look at what they’re producing. It’s a joke.

 

[demondavey]

If awful cultures meant clubs should be disbanded, Melbourne should've been axed a decade ago. If being an abject failure for a period meant clubs should be disbanded, St Kilda and Richmond should've been axed more than a decade ago. Gold Coast weren't put in the league because the AFL wanted on-field success from them, they were put in as an investment over decades for off-field success. And really, if the players are so horrendously awful as they were against Richmond and the club can still get more than 10 000 people to games regularly in Queensland, that's a victory.

Maybe...

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Yes I understand. But life wasn’t meant to be all unicorns and rainbows now was it...

No one forces others to be campaigners either, and yet people still persist in doing so. Einstein was wrong, compound interest is not the most powerful force in the universe. The human ego is.

 

[weetert]

You'd imagine the salary cap floor is an issue for GC given the lack of good, experienced players. What are guys like Touk Miller, Alex Sexton and Lachie Weller getting paid I wonder?

 

[Damon_3388]

Mate, look at what they’re producing. It’s a joke.

So is on-field success the precedent you'd like set for survival in the league?

You'd imagine the salary cap floor is an issue for GC given the lack of good, experienced players. What are guys like Touk Miller, Alex Sexton and Lachie Weller getting paid I wonder?

I'd imagine they're a bit of a destination club for MOR delistees too, not just for opportunity in getting a regular game, but probably making a better salary than they would elsewhere due to the need to meet the cap floor.

 

[demondavey]

So is on-field success the precedent you'd like set for survival in the league?



I'd imagine they're a bit of a destination club for MOR delistees too, not just for oportunity in getting a regular game, but probably making a better salary than they would elsewhere due to the need to meet the cap floor.

How much can the AFL pump in before they start doing it themselves? Don’t they have a limit to their investment? It’s a double edged sword, keep losing and they won’t get support organically, and especially if Brisbane keep winning it won’t benefit them either; any prospective supporters will be on the Lions and not the Suns.

 

[Ghost of Punt Road]

Massive majority are 3 game members.

Dipping their toe in so to speak.

It's about converting them as well as the growth in New members.

To be fair the Tigers For instance have 100k members and 35k don't seem to show up and that's taking into account that they have an awful lot of derbies down there to help crowds.

Because you buy an 11 game or 3 game membership doesn't mean you can get to every game. I'd think the proportion of non-attendees would be the same for every club.

If I have a 3 game membership, you can't count me as a non-attendee for the other 8 games.

I'm likely to miss one or two to illness, one or two to family events, one or two for work or something else. No club will be different on that.

 

[abcde12345]

How much can the AFL pump in before they start doing it themselves? Don’t they have a limit to their investment? It’s a double edged sword, keep losing and they won’t get support organically, and especially if Brisbane keep winning it won’t benefit them either; any prospective supporters will be on the Lions and not the Suns.

Here's a fun fact: The Melbourne Football Club has received more than the average distribution amount to clubs every year except one since the Suns inception. The Suns have received less than the average distribution amount three times in that period. The Suns have also had less total distributions than the Saints over the period, and only just more than the Bulldogs. Gold Coast has also never had the biggest AFL distribution in a single year.

This is despite Melbourne being the original football club with 150 years to start "doing it themselves". This is also irrespective of the fact that Melbourne is in the second biggest corporate hub in Australia, while the economy of the Gold Coast is (obviously) drastically smaller. It also doesn't factor in the purpose of the expansion club, that is, to try and increase the market share of Australian Rules in the third biggest state in Australia - and in one of the biggest growth pockets in the country.

So how much can the AFL pump into Melbourne, Bulldogs, Saints etc before they start doing it themselves, as you put it?

You also earlier in the thread talk about how "pathetic" they are on the field, ignoring the fact that the Melbourne football club was just as poor in the early 2000s. You only have to look 6 years ago in 2013 to find a year where the Demons had a worse percentage than Gold Coast has ever had - this despite being in the year where GWS was literally just a percentage booster.

It takes time to build a supporter base in a foreign land. Hell, it wasn't too long ago that Port - in AR dominated Adelaide - were on death's door. These projects have been described as generational for a reason. If the clubs can average 20k after 30 years that will be a success.

 

[Damon_3388]

How much can the AFL pump in before they start doing it themselves? Don’t they have a limit to their investment? It’s a double edged sword, keep losing and they won’t get support organically, and especially if Brisbane keep winning it won’t benefit them either; any prospective supporters will be on the Lions and not the Suns.

I assume the AFL has learnt some lessons from past relocation and expansion (specifically in the Northern states), and realise it requires and have budgeted for a 20-30 year investment of time and funds.

Why exactly does this upset some people so much?

 

[Altum Volantes]

Would make it somewhat easier if both clubs weren’t consistently acting as feeder clubs to Victorian teams.

Hard enough for them to retain talent without being raided every season.