Opinion The state of the Giants and Suns

Shane Heard

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It's a bad comparison though. Fremantle has a lot of historical connection, the giants and suns have none.
Yeah not really. As a Victorian living here in Perth the last 13 years...I could count on two fingers the number of times a freo fan talked about historical significance.

They were a brand new club plucked from thin air. Just like the Suns and giants
 

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caspian

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a club that was based in a footy mad suburb, with two WAFL teams that back in the day commanded a very loyal following. Completely different historical context.
 

Kappa

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Depends what you call " Pretty solid " and the thought they wont struggle forever.

I disagree with both and couple with that with the fact players do not want to play there and the retention rate of keeping them is at disaster levels currently for whatever reasons and this is another debate all together.

Each to their own though but the failed NRL experiments ( In a Rugby mad state ) give you pretty telling lessons of professional sports teams that are/have been located there.

It is sadly a graveyard for teams.
If GWS can be successful on field theres no reason GC can't be if they get their coaches and culture right. Don't the GC average over 15k home crowds? For a bottom 2 team thats definitely solid, better than half of the nrl and most of the a league..

The GC titans in the nrl aren't dead either last time I checked...
 

Chism

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A much better option would be the AFL offering to pay for example 2 senior players (ie a Tex Walker, Daniel Talia for example type player - or any equivelent aged players who are still able to play at a good level and mentor on field) outside the salary cap in an ambassadorial role big money to head up to the GC and be immediate on field help. The clubs losing the players should then receive compensation as for restricted free agency. Another kid - even taken at pick 1, is very unlikely to turn the on field performance around next year or maybe the year after - it is not the answer and the Suns and the AFL should know this already
The Suns are not even the worst performed team of the last 3 years and we are.

Does this special offer come with the usual AFL double standards? As we should qualify before the Suns do and have a so called graveyard in the important 24-27yo age bracket.
 

La Dispute

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So they get rid of decent mature age talent in Barlow and Lyons, flood the team full of kids, be predictably s**t and demand a priority pick? Nah.

Don't blame them for having a go, i'd be doing the same if I was running the club.
Lyons left voluntarily, and Barlow was over-the-hill.

They actually have very few quality players in the prime age bracket.
 

Crow till I die

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The Suns are not even the worst performed team of the last 3 years and we are.

Does this special offer come with the usual AFL double standards? As we should qualify before the Suns do and have a so called graveyard in the important 24-27yo age bracket.
Carlton embarked on a mass rebuild and traded out many of its mature players for picks - that in itself should disqualify them from any draft assistance. The Suns are an AFL construct and I am in no doubt that the AFL will gift them a priority pick which is useless in the short term to them and they and the AFL should know that, rather than give some real assistance in a form like I mentioned that will help the here and now.
 

Firestarter

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I just remembered... how are those supplementary state league players the bottom teams got at the end of last season? (Feel free to correct me on specifics)
 

Requiem

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Brisbane lions recieved a Priority pick that they eventually used to secure Charlie Cameron who is their leading Goalkicker this year.

Gold Coast need help.
The end of first round pick (#19), which we also package up with pick 30 to Port for their 2017 1st round & 2016 pick 67.

I am of the opinion that no club should receive early 1st round priority picks period. I agree that they need some help, but not at the expense of the rest of the comp. An end of 1st round would be suitable, they could do some creative trades with that. For example, they could package that pick (Ideally #19) up with the Lions first we traded to them last year (Currently #15) for an earlier draft pick.

We were arguably in a worse spot back in 2016 than what GC is now, and we managed to claw our way out of the bottom 4.

This always seems to be the default answer in priority pick discussions, but fringe AFL players aren’t the solution and Gold Coast already have enough of them.

What would be of greater benefit to them would be extra discretionary cap space to entice a gun player to sign on a godfather offer, or at least attract a couple of solid B-graders.
They already did the Godfather offer with GAJ, that turned out well...

IMO GC should be chasing veterans that can contribute onfield and provide meaningful leadership, types like Roughead should be the priority.
 
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JayJ20

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I think Gold Coast should get the priority pick. They've lost far too much talent without adequate compensation unlike GWS.
 

Crow till I die

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Another angle the AFL could look at without compromising the integrity of the draft is to go down the track it did with GWS where it had access to 2 x 17 year old players but had to trade them out for picks or players or both. GC traded for OMeara and the crows traded for B Crouch. That way this years draft stays in tact and it allows clubs to be strategic in trying to secure the next big thing from the following crop of players
 

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Rob

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Lyons left voluntarily, and Barlow was over-the-hill.

They actually have very few quality players in the prime age bracket.
Bulls**t about Lyons - he was delisted and paid out with a year left on his contract.

Barlow was no superstar, but he was a badly needed source of experience. He got 35 touches in his last game FFS, so he wasn't that far over the hill.
 

Underarm

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We didn’t get one last year and won’t this year.

Absolute joke if Gold Coast get one. Not just from a Carlton perspective either. The Crows traded with us no doubt thinking or hoping we’d finish bottom. At the moment it’s looking like we’re headed for 17th or 18th. Totally unfair to the Crows and undermines the integrity of future pick trades if the AFL decides they’ll just hand out extra picks when they see fit
Both teams essentially recieved a couple of 3rd round draft picks last year. Carlton used their 2 picks to help get them Mcgovern and Setterfield.

If Carlton ask for one I wouldn't be opposed to them getting help as well.
 

Giant Pete

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If GWS had of been able to keep most of their players , they would of won a flag or 2 . The salary cap was always going to bite them. The draft picks they bring in for the players they lose always take a couple of years to develop.

They will be a good team for a long time and might pinch a flag but with the constant losing of players they’ll never be great.
Our midflieds ages at the moment are 25, 24, 23, 22 and 20. We have spread our age bracket to ensure we are, at worst, competitive for a long period.
 

La Dispute

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They already did the Godfather offer with GAJ, that turned out well...

IMO GC should be chasing veterans that can contribute onfield and provide meaningful leadership, types like Roughead should be the priority.
Compare their performance (ladder position) with Ablett vs without him. They were a much better team, despite being tunnel-visioned, with an elite player in their lineup.

I agree they’d benefit from bringing in some veterans, but they aren’t going to win games just off the back of just taking on guys like Roughead and McVeigh.

With their best players seemingly leaving on a yearly basis, they also need to bring in some players who will drive wins.
 

TheEnsign

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On what grounds? Just being no good?

If we finish Bottom 3 and McCartin & Roberton both retire at season's end - I would support us applying for a priority pick. Should we get one ahead of GC? Should we both get one?
 

La Dispute

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Bulls**t about Lyons - he was delisted and paid out with a year left on his contract.

Barlow was no superstar, but he was a badly needed source of experience. He got 35 touches in his last game FFS, so he wasn't that far over the hill.
Lyons requested to be delisted after cracking it because Dew didn’t like the defensive side of his game, and he was dropped throughout the year.

Barlow was no longer AFL standard; if he was he’d be on a list, and he wasn’t going to be the difference for Gold Coast. He also had plenty of average performances throughout his last year, which sealed his fate.
 

Wallaby

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We didn’t get one last year and won’t this year.

Absolute joke if Gold Coast get one. Not just from a Carlton perspective either. The Crows traded with us no doubt thinking or hoping we’d finish bottom. At the moment it’s looking like we’re headed for 17th or 18th. Totally unfair to the Crows and undermines the integrity of future pick trades if the AFL decides they’ll just hand out extra picks when they see fit

Tough. Richmond got screwed in 2003. We traded Pick 4 for Kane Johnson (probably slightly over the odds, but we needed a mature player and he was OK for us). Then Carlton got hit with Draft penalties because - Carlton, salary cap, fill in the rest yourself - and Richmond's Pick 4 became Pick 2 - which was definitely too much for Kane Johnson. We appealed - nothing. (The only saving grace was the Crows traded the pick 2 for Carey, so that was a bust for them anyway).
 

Blueboys11

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Purely for the Adelaide connection this would be funny. Not sure how Carlton couldn’t also be getting one considering our current ladder position (and the last few years)
 

Back One Out

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What is the point of handing them Matt Rowell and Noah Anderson from this year's draft?
Both kids will serve their 2 years and be on the first plane out of Coolangatta after the 2021 season.

The Suns, Blues and Demons have been showered with Top 5 draft picks over the past 10 years and look where they are on the ladder.
Clearly, the access to top draft picks is not the cure-all to success

Suns chairman, Tony Cochrane says "We are past the stage where we say, 'We will give you a couple of players from the VFL or SANFL or WAFL', it has to be something that breaks the cycle."

I have an idea. Why doesn't he resign? The Gold Coast Suns been nothing short of an embarrassment under Cochrane's leadership. An absolute shiit stain on the competition. They are a JOKE! Not since Fitzroy was broke in 90's has a club haemorrhaged so much of their playing talent. Footballers just don't want to be there. Why is that, I wonder?

It's time for everyone involved to GTFO and hand over the leadership to competent people who might do things better. Otherwise, the AFL may as well fold the Suns right now.
 

Requiem

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Compare their performance (ladder position) with Ablett vs without him. They were a much better team, despite being tunnel-visioned, with an elite player in their lineup.

I agree they’d benefit from bringing in some veterans, but they aren’t going to win games just off the back of just taking on guys like Roughead and McVeigh.

With their best players seemingly leaving on a yearly basis, they also need to bring in some players who will drive wins.
All true.

IMO their emphasis should be on promoting player ownership of the club & cultivating a positive, family like environment. If the culture is rotten than nothing will change.
 

Shane Heard

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a club that was based in a footy mad suburb, with two WAFL teams that back in the day commanded a very loyal following. Completely different historical context.
Partly too because of the fact that a lot of Western Australians never really fully embraced loving west coast and liked the idea of embracing a new WA team.

25 years later and those people indoctrinated their kids into the purple army and on it goes.

Pretty impressive fan base considering the first 15 years of absolute mediocre performances.

Not many docker kids these days have any interest in the Fremantle WAFL teams...
 
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