Opinion The state of the Giants and Suns

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La Dispute

La Dispute
Jul 14, 2005
9,851
11,095
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Manchester City, Boston Bruins
On what grounds? Just being no good?

If we finish Bottom 3 and McCartin & Roberton both retire at season's end - I would support us applying for a priority pick. Should we get one ahead of GC? Should we both get one?
Does St Kilda have retention issues anywhere near the scale of Gold Coast?

Are your captains leaving every year?

Maybe throwing 1st round picks to pick up Tom Lee and Tom Hickey, and using 800k cap space on a cooked Dan Hannebery haven’t been the smartest moves?
 

La Dispute

La Dispute
Jul 14, 2005
9,851
11,095
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Manchester City, Boston Bruins
All true.

IMO their emphasis should be on promoting player ownership of the club & cultivating a positive, family like environment. If the culture is rotten than nothing will change.
Exactly. They overpaid for Lachie Weller, but he’s a guy that wants to be there and has developed into a very good player. They need more little wins like this.

Witts was a great get, and him signing long-term, along with players like Swallow is going to encourage others to stay long term.

IIRC Ainsworth was happy to be picked up by them too.
 

Requiem

Dungeon Enthusiast
Oct 17, 2012
3,481
10,250
Summer Bay
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Chicago Bulls, NQ Cowboys, LFC
Exactly. They overpaid for Lachie Weller, but he’s a guy that wants to be there and has developed into a very good player. They need more little wins like this.

Witts was a great get, and him signing long-term, along with players like Swallow is going to encourage others to stay long term.

IIRC Ainsworth was happy to be picked up by them too.
They have good pieces, just need the off-field structures to support player & culture development.

I don't think they're in as bad a spot as many are portraying.
 

Duskfire

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 30, 2007
6,257
4,567
Perth
AFL Club
Geelong
I think it goes to show that having talented staff in place is just as important as picks. The doctors, fitness gurus, coaches, development staff, recruiters, etc etc. teams that are successful long term have that worked out. Newer teams don’t have the history or the culture or the nouns.

Eventually they will get there. They just need to lure the right person. I am kind of surprised that no one has thrown a s**t ton of money at Stephen Wells to try and lure him for instance.
 

Harris 10

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 8, 2004
9,216
13,964
hgfhkagk
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I’m happy for them to be given a priority pick under the condition that it has to be traded for experienced players.
Not sure what criteria needs to be but something like player or players must be over 24 and played min 60+ games.
 

blitzer

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 27, 2006
6,096
6,483
House
AFL Club
Essendon
I hate this crap where teams submit their requests for priority picks. If there's going to be a priority pick the decision should simply be made by the AFL. Not bottom clubs coming forward with their beggars bowls. For the record I'm against the true priority picks but was OK with the state league player thing they did last year (although I wouldn't have let them trade for a pick).
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

Premiership Player
Apr 20, 2006
4,152
3,918
AFL Club
Carlton
Should all the supporters of clubs that have received priority picks in the past on the back of much softer criteria, really be in here bagging the Suns and saying they shouldn't receive one?
Exactly last year WC won a flag with a huge help from PP, Richmond won a premiership because one of their best players was a PP and before that Hawthorn built an entire list on the back of bottoming out and getting PP’s.
 

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Stitch

All Australian
Jul 30, 2013
797
1,785
AFL Club
Richmond
Suns effectively saying to the AFL, give us pick 1 and we'll give you a finals appearance...lmao. The illusion of first round picks.

The biggest problem for the Suns is they went from having an additional 8 list spots and $1mil in salary to league standard in the space of 4 years. Giants were given 8 years of list concessions. This meant the Suns had to cut out talent quickly in years compromised by back to back years of Giant's draft concessions. Now they're left with a league standard salary cap and no elite talent to pay it out, meaning they're paying overs on average players to meet cap requirements. This isn't sustainable and more draft picks won't help. To avoid compromising the drafts again, the Suns should get primary access to DFAs and be given additional squad size and increased salary cap for a period of time to cater. Maybe they use this to pick up 2-3 mature players out of contract from top clubs, maybe they choose to take advantage of the additional cap space and bring in some elite talent with their existing first round picks. Either way it helps restructure their cap to give them the flexibility of options. A club can have all the draft picks in the world but without the money to pay them it means nothing.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

Premiership Player
Apr 20, 2006
4,152
3,918
AFL Club
Carlton
We didn’t get one last year and won’t this year.

Absolute joke if Gold Coast get one. Not just from a Carlton perspective either. The Crows traded with us no doubt thinking or hoping we’d finish bottom. At the moment it’s looking like we’re headed for 17th or 18th. Totally unfair to the Crows and undermines the integrity of future pick trades if the AFL decides they’ll just hand out extra picks when they see fit
We already have FA compo that does that
 

Johnny Bananas

Club Legend
Sep 10, 2010
1,378
1,631
A sugar refinery
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I don't blame them for asking for one but the AFL should say no. No team should be gifted priority picks and definitely not pick 1 or any early picks.

If they are going to give our a pick it should have to be at the end of the first round at the earliest so every team has a chance to make a pick before a team has one gifted to them.
Maybe they'll luck into a Jarryd Roughead-type player. What a fine player he has been. How did he get to your club again?

Should be given pick to use solely of top mature state leaguers (and not use it to trade)
They already did that last year, it didn't do anything. The state leagues have already been denuded of talent thanks to the mid-season draft and last year's concessions to Gold Coast and Carlton.

They dont need another pick that would walk.

And then yes there would be the unbelievably unfair nature of the impact to the Crows given the swap deal. Especially considering it seems the top 2 are daylighr ahead of the rest.
Yeah go cry about it some more. Not every trade works out as well as a team would like, and every draft with a priority pick has had teams trading for second round picks that get bumped down a spot also. That's the nature of the game, it isn't set up to benefit Adelaide specifically.

And it's quite odd that you have done enough draft reading to say Rowell and Anderson are daylight ahead of the rest, but not enough to know that they're best mates, so if they're recruited together there's actually a lesser chance of them walking out.

It has been a failed experiment and for the few thousand faithful that turn up and support their team it is a sad state of affairs but they will never have a true presence and the NRL experiments on the Gold Coast also reflect this.
Not just a few thousand, more than 10 000 every week, and 16 000 this past weekend in a game played in the rain. In Queensland. And you call this a "failed experiment"? Pull your head in. If you want to suggest culling a team to benefit Tasmania, start with your own.

The Gold Coast Suns should look to take advantage of this. There is a long list of fringe players in the Lions line-up who aren't getting opportunities because the club doctors have done so well in keeping almost all of our best 22 on the park all year for the past few years. These are players that would likely be mutually beneficial if the Lions were to move on to the Suns, giving us more list space to develop more talented youth, and giving the suns more leadership to develop their youth.
Good call. If I were the Suns I'd be attempting to trade for Walker, Keays and Bastinac. Even if some of them only play NEAFL, the leadership and experience would help.
 

Hotdees

Team Captain
Feb 18, 2016
565
707
AFL Club
Melbourne
Our midflieds ages at the moment are 25, 24, 23, 22 and 20. We have spread our age bracket to ensure we are, at worst, competitive for a long period.
Exactly. Can’t see you dropping out of contention for a long time. You will never be the superpower everyone feared though.
 

Lensen

You've ruined the act, GOB
Feb 23, 2003
14,896
14,777
Brisbane
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood
Brisbane lions recieved a Priority pick that they eventually used to secure Charlie Cameron who is their leading Goalkicker this year.

Gold Coast need help.
they'd have got cameron without that pick, just would have required them to give other picks up. the point is that if they were still on about "woe is us we are too far gone to get out this ourselves" its unlikely cameron would have wanted to go there in the first place
 

Rad Roo

Club Legend
Aug 2, 2017
1,235
490
AFL Club
North Melbourne
While on the surface, gws look like a team in contention, they are not too far from becoming the Gold Coast basket case in that morale will dissipate as they continue to miss out on the flag. The flag is what gws is built for hence the pressure will be huge. Mass exodus will be happening soon, clubs should be ready for a mass pouching season soon.
 

WillHayward

Club Legend
Aug 13, 2018
1,697
2,176
Newcastle
AFL Club
Sydney
Seriously though. Give it more time. Most of us are not old enough to see that our clubs went through the same stuff.
But the suns have been awful for 100% of their existence.

Teams have had some poor runs.
Saints in the 80s comes to mind.

But that was pre draft and pre equalisation.

In the draft era - being down for a decade is a problem.

Even the Bloos made the 8 in 2013.
 

Wayne Swan

Premium Gold
Sep 9, 2013
1,609
2,224
AFL Club
Sydney
Organic? Your club died in its home town and then died 3 times more times and was "saved"

Lol I see you look up Google. Great. It should tell you what a pathetic stain they were back in the day and if they followed your rules for "life" they would of been killed off decades ago.

Run along bandwagoner.
You mate are a tosser, tell us the "three times" we died but were apparently miraculously "saved", by who? White Knights? No matter how much you detest it, 90% of AFL fans see your club as a plastic franchise.
 

Wayne Swan

Premium Gold
Sep 9, 2013
1,609
2,224
AFL Club
Sydney
And like clockwork GC ask for yet another high pick: https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-07-08/i-will-become-a-6000pound-gorilla-on-this-suns-to-ask-for-no1-pick

Into the ******* bin. Until they can demonstrably do something with those kids they're just asking to ruin another promising career.
AFL has to do something dramatic, significant and immediately for the Suns, they can't continue to leak very high draft picks. I'm not against giving them the first pick as a PP. Maybe give them two picks after the non finalists that MUST be traded for experienced players and an extra $500k in the cap to make these players offers too good to refuse. Just do something, anything AFL, chucking them some third rate local league players does nothing except clog their list.
 

MemoryLane

Debutant
Jul 8, 2019
50
50
AFL Club
Adelaide
Maybe they'll luck into a Jarryd Roughead-type player. What a fine player he has been. How did he get to your club again?


They already did that last year, it didn't do anything. The state leagues have already been denuded of talent thanks to the mid-season draft and last year's concessions to Gold Coast and Carlton.


Yeah go cry about it some more. Not every trade works out as well as a team would like, and every draft with a priority pick has had teams trading for second round picks that get bumped down a spot also. That's the nature of the game, it isn't set up to benefit Adelaide specifically.

And it's quite odd that you have done enough draft reading to say Rowell and Anderson are daylight ahead of the rest, but not enough to know that they're best mates, so if they're recruited together there's actually a lesser chance of them walking out.


Not just a few thousand, more than 10 000 every week, and 16 000 this past weekend in a game played in the rain. In Queensland. And you call this a "failed experiment"? Pull your head in. If you want to suggest culling a team to benefit Tasmania, start with your own.


Good call. If I were the Suns I'd be attempting to trade for Walker, Keays and Bastinac. Even if some of them only play NEAFL, the leadership and experience would help.
How immature do you want to be? Every opinion that doesn't suit yours means someone is 'crying'? Grow up.

Yes they are very close, how tiresome that you felt the need to point it out and then followed it up with such an ignorant comment that it somehow means they won't walk from the Suns. If they can both walk to a Vic club in 2 years does that somehow not have the same pull as living in a place they potentially dont want to be in? They can still hang out. This whole myth that mates = never leaving is very media-esque of you but is a total folly.

Interesting that you attempt to put words in my mouth re: supposed Adelaide entitlement but you fail to see the common sense view- why should the goalposts be moved for every other club because one is failing so hard. You can try to dismiss the idea as 'crying' but you wouldn't be able to adequately explain how it ISN'T unfair.

Seriously if you are going to pretend to be an intellectual you need to have some substance.
 
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