The state of the Giants and Suns

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Their OOC player signings, academy selections and 17 year old concession signings haven't been enough of a leg up?

A couple of kids next year aren't going to make them a better side. Player retention will make them a better side. Perhaps a further increase to the player marketing allowance will help.

I think this would be fair. It’s pretty much just the same as COLA.
Let the club nominate the 5 faces of the club or something and the AFL pay them $200k PA for “promotion”.
The problem now is there are about 15 clubs circling every talented kid they have. You could easily see St Kilda offer King $750k and JL and Rankine getting similar offers from Adelaide sides when they come out of contract and until they start improving there really is nothing to keep them up at the GC.
GWS I could see being in a much worse position than them if they hadn’t nailed their list management. Hopefully before they drop down the ladder they have a properly established club otherwise it could be just as ugly for them.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Their OOC player signings, academy selections and 17 year old concession signings haven't been enough of a leg up?

A couple of kids next year aren't going to make them a better side. Player retention will make them a better side. Perhaps a further increase to the player marketing allowance will help.

Also they were starting from absolute zero so it was the absolute bare minimum they needed imo.
I wouldn’t trade our situation of being a bigger club in Melbourne with history for anything GC have been given

 

[tugga]

Have been to both our games against GC and GWS this year and have been going up every chance I get.
This year I noticed a huge improvement in crowd involvement and knowledge at the GWS game. They are starting to develop genuine passion.
Unfortunately I cannot say the same about the Suns. Out of the 16,000 there on Saturday the vast majority were supporting the away side. Every cab or Uber driver I took a ride with said nobody cares. Now that's not literally true. Some do. They said the same about the Titans too.
The line up at the Richmond merchandise stand was 40 deep. There was very little action at the Suns tent.
I hope they succeed, for the people who do care about them. It's a vicious place up there for pro sports teams.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The rest of your post was yet more attempted bullying/condescending to protect your lack of argument. Tiresome.

Or in other words, you can't actually address my points, so you'll just yell "BULLYING!" and scurry off. Thanks for playing.

 

[Mofra]

I think this would be fair. It’s pretty much just the same as COLA.
Let the club nominate the 5 faces of the club or something and the AFL pay them $200k PA for “promotion”.

Every club has a marketing allowance under the EBA, for most clubs it's $500k with GWS and GCS having a little bit more.

Given the struggle to establish a presence on the GC I'd argue the Suns deserve much more. It would also help them retain their star/most identifiable players.

 

[Sentinel]

These threads have been done to death. Neither club is going anywhere. The Giants will be fine and Gold Coast just need some better luck with player retention and on field success. Both clubs are part of a long term strategy for the AFL, not an 8 year plan.

People forget how much work it takes to build a club from the ground up, particularly in an area where AFL isn't the dominant sport. It took Hawthorn 32 seasons to make finals for the first time and they had years in the VFA to begin with, plus it took most clubs close to 100 years before cracking 30k members.

 

[MemoryLane]

Or in other words, you can't actually address my points, so you'll just yell "BULLYING!" and scurry off. Thanks for playing.

No you just aren't interested in staying on topic without going on about crying or whinging or questioning why I'm putting my own view forward on a forum. There is no point engaging with someone who has already admitted they have resigned themselves to accepting whatever the AFL does and isnt interested in heating different views. Why are you even on a forum?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I think a big problem with both teams is that they haven't really been accepted by the wider AFL fanbase. The glee in which people revel in GWS losing another player or losing a final if often due to a "Them being given too much so they deserve it" sort of attitude is somewhat baffling. The Suns are often dismissed as a rabble, despite the fact that in the last 2 years at least the club has really turned itself around organisationally and culturally. But nobody is aware of that and nobody really cares, they're more than happy to see these 2 clubs fail. In this thread alone I've read several times; these 'clubs' - obviously giving the implication that they don't qualify for usage of the term by us high and mighty none expansion club followers. With that sort of attitude how can we expect them to succeed?

There's so much negativity from fans around these 2 teams and I can't really understand why. Why was it a bad thing for the AFL to try and expand the league? Shouldn't we be hoping for these teams to succeed, and indeed even encouraging them to do so? It can only be a good thing for the game if we did.

These forums are full of short-sighted people and southern state navel-gazers, I'm really not that surprised. Many fans are selfish, they resent money being spent on causes other than what can benefit their own club. The Victorian entitlement in particular is hilarious. I have no doubt that if Bigfooty was around during the Bears' existence, they'd have copped the same reaction, perhaps to an even bigger degree. The media in the period certainly gave them no respite, or so I'm told.

You're right that Gold Coast have changed their culture under Dew, but people only look at results. And results won't change for a while because they hit the reset button and there's little mature talent. Expect more glee at Gold Coast's continued losses over the next year at least.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

No you just aren't interested in staying on topic without going on about crying or whinging or questioning why I'm putting my own view forward on a forum. There is no point engaging with someone who has already admitted they have resigned themselves to accepting whatever the AFL does and isnt interested in heating different views. Why are you even on a forum?

I hear a lot of complaining, and no response to the point I made. I think that shows what your priorities are on here, they're about protecting your feelings. You're simply not worth engaging with.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

They certainly do. And a priority pick would have pushed Carlton's pick back, just as a FA compensation pick would have.


Wrong. If Carlton finish 17th, you are owed whatever pick they would receive after equalisation measures are allocated. That includes FA compensation. And that includes priority picks.


By that logic pick swaps are already tainted. Brisbane received an end of first round priority pick in 2016 and multiple clubs had made trades for 2nd and 3rd round selections prior to that. They all got shafted, where was the outcry then? Last year everyone besides Carlton got pushed back a spot for the Tom Lynch compensation pick, and the AFL was perfectly happy to let that happen. As they will be for this.


Unlike you, I don't have blind entitlement for my club. I long ago learned to accept the world and the AFL aren't fair, and the deck is inherently stacked against many clubs for different reasons. The Lions have the misfortune of being located in a state where Aussie Rules isn't popular. Adelaide dominate a market where Aussie Rules is the only game in town, and only have one competitor for eyeballs. I'm not going to shed any tears if Adelaide loses out on something that practically every club had the potential to lose out on. In fact, every club other than Adelaide and the Gold Coast will lose out on it too, including my own. For some reason you can't see that, perhaps because you had your hopes built up so high for a top two pick.


It's not my problem if you feel shamed or not. You are complaining repeatedly in an entitled manner, I call that whinging. Get off the internet if you can't handle language that hurts your feelings.


The clubs aren't giving feedback here, it's just you being sad that your precious top two pick may not happen.

You really do not know how the whole trading system works do you??

 

[Colonial]

You really do not know how the whole trading system works do you??

A f/s or academy pick wouldn't push Adelaide pick back?

 

[Coops93]

These forums are full of short-sighted people and southern state navel-gazers, I'm really not that surprised. Many fans are selfish, they resent money being spent on causes other than what can benefit their own club. The Victorian entitlement in particular is hilarious. I have no doubt that if Bigfooty was around during the Bears' existence, they'd have copped the same reaction, perhaps to an even bigger degree. The media in the period certainly gave them no respite, or so I'm told.

It's interesting, what more is that they almost resent it being brought up. Whenever an interstate club/team complains about the Victorian bias the Victorians roll there eyes and say "sure the is", despite the fact there's several inherent disadvantages to not being a Vic team, let alone an attitudinal one by the AFL and the VFL teams.

You're right that Gold Coast have changed their culture under Dew, but people only look at results. And results won't change for a while because they hit the reset button and there's little mature talent. Expect more glee at Gold Coast's continued losses over the next year at least.

I think it started last year, and has only been enhanced since Dew came in. There were reports that there's a core of players who are very keen on building the Suns up and they were livid with May and Lynch leaving. Combine that with how many young players have re-signed this year as opposed to delaying discussions it's clear the culture has improved immensely.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

A f/s or academy pick wouldn't push Adelaide pick back?

Yes it would that is already known prior to making any trade that a bid may come before your pick thus pushing it back that is completely different to what the suns are trying to do with this priority pick that would completely undermine the integrity of the draft especially when there is a another club that has a. Poorer record blues the suns are in this position through there own mismanagement nothing else GWS have lost similar level players but have still managed to stay more then competitive!

 

[Colonial]

Yes it would that is already known prior to making any trade that a bid may come before your pick thus pushing it back that is completely different to what the suns are trying to do with this priority pick that would completely undermine the integrity of the draft especially when there is a another club that has a. Poorer record blues the suns are in this position through there own mismanagement nothing else GWS have lost similar level players but have still managed to stay more then competitive!

I don't see the issue, considering the priority, f/s picks handed out to traditional clubs it's no different.

And those traditional clubs got them not just from bad luck but disastrous mismanagement. Worse really considering they've had 100 years or so to get it right.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

I don't see the issue, considering the priority, f/s picks handed out to traditional clubs it's no different.

And those traditional clubs got them not just from bad luck but disastrous mismanagement. Worse really considering they've had 100 years or so to get it right.

It’s completely different the priority picks that those traditional clubs got in the past was under the old system where it was purely winning less then 5 games over a 2 year period this is no longer available to any one !as for fs picks most clubs could count on one hand how many they have had over the last couple of decades the academy system the expansion clubs have is far more lucrative which I’m not against

 

[lionshine]

Suns should target Josh Kennedy from the Swans and Luke Breust from the Hawks. Two experienced players who come from arguably the best clubs of the past decade, they are both super professional and would be terrific leaders for the Suns younger players. They can both play at a high standard as well. Offer both 4 year deals on big coin. The AFL should step in and help them lure these guys. If they were able to add a couple of quality veterans then I wouldn't be against them getting a PP as well to really help them turn their list around. Without some added veterans, however, a PP would be relatively pointless because it'd just be another youngster without proper support/guidance.

 

[La Dispute]

To ensure the success of the Gold Coast Suns to AFL needs them winning games, and unfortunately for the rest of the league that amounts to extra consessions, including early selections.

They aren’t going to just let their investment wither away. While the signs are there they’re struggling, they’re going to pump them full of resources and manufacture some finals appearances - as they have with GWS.

 

[Colonial]

It’s completely different the priority picks that those traditional clubs got in the past was under the old system where it was purely winning less then 5 games over a 2 year period this is no longer available to any one !as for fs picks most clubs could count on one hand how many they have had over the last couple of decades the academy system the expansion clubs have is far more lucrative which I’m not against

Not different at all. Still effects the draft.

 

[Billy ray]

We just need jesinta to pull rank and tell buddy she is moving home to the gold coast. Then buddy can play for suns for 2-3 years

 

[La Dispute]

We just need jesinta to pull rank and tell buddy she is moving home to the gold coast. Then buddy can play for suns for 2-3 years

Would actually be massive for the Suns to get Buddy to play there for a few seasons.

Sydney get Buddy’s huge contract off their books, and having Buddy there would be incentive for Luko and/or Rankine to stay. (And other talented young players etc)

 

[Dr Awkward]

I worry about both clubs for different reasons. Gold Coast I think would have a decent supporter base if they could get it right on field. But they can't and they can't retain players.

GWS hav mostly got it right on field but who is going to follow them really. The crowds are still so pathetic. Imagine if they drop down the ladder

 

[Giant Pete]

Why are the giants in this thread? We’ve played finals last 3 years, are currently 5th with a young midfield.
Was this thread started by a Victorian?

 

[1991firstgamer]

The whole club was started by a victorian

Sent from my SM-J730G using Tapatalk

 

[Billy ray]

I am sick of calls for my team to be relocated to Tasmania.

The AFL should just announce that at the start of the next broadcast deal there will be a Tasmanian team.

At same time they should reduce the amount of players on the field to 16.

So each team can get delist 2 players.
Thats 36 players. Almost a full squad of players so no real dilution of talent.

Then we can see how Tassie goes along with clearing the air around the future of my team.

And yes there can be a bye each week.
They can schedule the new Tas team and gold coast as having the bye in round 1 and final round as unlikely to make finals.

Discuss

 

[Sirlemsip]

Do Tasmania deserve a team? Yes
Is Gold Coast the team most likely to fold? Yes
Do most supporters want to see the above happen? Yes and no respectively.

Will the AFL change 100+ years of history and alter the number of players on the field? No