The Steve Waugh era

[ManWithNoName]

How is this looked upon in retrospect? The unprecedented success, the work ethic of the team, the innovative coaching/management. Balanced by the sledging, the somewhat drawn out "farewell tour" of Tugga and the lack of an opposition who could push them besides India in India.

Best captain for many a year, or in the right place at the right time? Or somewhere in the middle?

 

[Fastback]

I think we had a quality side made even more formidable thanks to a steely edge brought by Waugh.

Imagine what this side would be doing to SAF at the moment.

Langer
Hayden
Ponting
M Waugh
S Waugh
Martyn
Gilchrist
Warne
Lee
Gillespie
McGrath

 

[Black Diamond]

Border taught us how to fight, Taylor taught us how to win, Waugh taught us how to kill.

He is our greatest captain in my opinion. People downplay his record due to having such a great group at his disposal, but as we learnt in 2005 sometimes you have those players but still don't win. He was also criticised for his cold-bloodedness. Well, their job is to win and win he did.

He lost one series as captain - the 2001 tour of India. While we sat at number one the margin to second place was enormous. We accounted for England comfortably in 2001 and 2002/03, but probably the absolute pinnacle of our dominance was 2001/02 when we beat South Africa 3-0 in Australia and then 3-0 in South Africa. It was just incredible to account for them the way we did given the names they had. We won by margins of 246 runs, 9 wickets, 10 wickets, an innings and 360 runs, 4 wickets and 5 wickets.

Although it was before he became captain, he also had a massive influence over us finally beating the West Indies in 1995. He was the first to start giving WI a taste of their own medicine and was the first to encourage our fast bowlers to stick it up theirs.

 

[hayes]

I think we had a quality side made even more formidable thanks to a steely edge brought by Waugh.

Imagine what this side would be doing to SAF at the moment.

Langer
Hayden
Ponting
M Waugh
S Waugh
Martyn
Gilchrist
Warne
Lee
Gillespie
McGrath

Jeez I took that side for granted.

 

[CAS79]

We had a great side.... but for the most part the opposition was rank.

 

[maxy87]

We had a great side.... but for the most part the opposition was rank.

Yeah I agree with to a fair extent, but S Waugh, as UseYourIllusion said, taught us the ruthless, cold, clinical winning mentality. This style didn't resonate with ever player (Slater IMO) but it set a standard. I think it was Waughs guts and determination in the 1999 World Cup which galvanised that side and was the impetus for what was to become. Looking back in hindsight, I think that the opposition we faced during this period, for the most part, were probably not the the standard that we've seen in the last 5 or so years (bowling attacks featuring the likes of Steyn, Morkel, Anderson, Broad, Harbhajan et. al.)but there was definitely an intangible mindset thing that Waugh brought. I think this legacy lived on (despite the 2005 Ashes) until the bulk of that side moved on

 

[mansize rooster]

I think we had a quality side made even more formidable thanks to a steely edge brought by Waugh.

Imagine what this side would be doing to SAF at the moment.

Langer
Hayden
Ponting
M Waugh
S Waugh
Martyn
Gilchrist
Warne
Lee
Gillespie
McGrath

Everyone but Lee was a god in that period.
I mean you could take Lee's spot and just use it as rotation for conditions.
Kaspa/Bichel/Fleming

 

[Kyptastic]

Lee cops a little too much on here for his test bowling. Yeah he wasn't an all time great, but still probably a half step above the rest around at the time. Arguably bowled his best for Australia after McGrath and Warne retired too.

 

[Black Diamond]

Everyone but Lee was a god in that period.
I mean you could take Lee's spot and just use it as rotation for conditions.
Kaspa/Bichel/Fleming

You could dispense with Mark Waugh pretty easily too, and add MacGill to that list as handy back-up.

 

[DIG]

Lehman in the mix too. The depth we had at state level was just so strong back then.

But yeah, like others have said, Waugh's utter ruthlessness was memorable, even in dead rubbers.

 

[imadodgyumpire]

Would definitely **** Langer off that list.

 

[Black Diamond]

Would definitely **** Langer off that list.

Over the period of Steve Waugh's captaincy, Langer averaged 47.88 and hit 15 centuries from 55 matches. He should definitely be on that list.

 

[Caesar]

Possibly the most overrated Australian captain of all time. Complete tactical numpty and a very selfish player. Was blessed with an exceptional group of players with a pre-established winning mentality.

There is a lot more to being a great captain than the much-lauded 'guts and determination'.

 

[Black Diamond]

Possibly the most overrated Australian captain of all time. Complete tactical numpty and a very selfish player. Was blessed with an exceptional group of players with a pre-established winning mentality.

There is a lot more to being a great captain than the much-lauded 'guts and determination'.

Exactly what should he have done better? Given he is "possibly the most overrated" I'm sure it will be easy for you to compare him unfavourably to his predecessors. Please also provide evidence of selfishness.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Exactly what should he have done better? Given he is "possibly the most overrated" I'm sure it will be easy for you to compare him unfavourably to his predecessors. Please also provide evidence of selfishness.

His obscenely drawn out "farewell tour"?

 

[Bucking Beads]

Steve Waugh is a myth as captain. He had arguably the best test team of all time. He should have won all the time.

 

[Black Diamond]

His obscenely drawn out "farewell tour"?

Perhaps, but the public wanted it and loved it.

Steve Waugh is a myth as captain. He had arguably the best test team of all time. He should have won all the time.

He lost two series as captain. Two.

 

[Caesar]

Exactly what should he have done better? Given he is "possibly the most overrated" I'm sure it will be easy for you to compare him unfavourably to his predecessors. Please also provide evidence of selfishness.

He shouldn't have done anything better. He did the job fine - keep a strong team culture and let the juggernaut roll over the opposition is all that was necessary. Just saying it didn't require anything brilliant on his behalf.

Ask some New South Welshmen what they think of his captaincy skills and you will get some pretty lukewarm responses. He was very average with the Blues, lacking any sort of imagination.

As for selfishness, plenty of examples. Most memorable to spring to mind is 1998 when he cost us that Test against England because he refused to go for runs, giving Gough the opportunity to clean up the tail. Later in his career he was openly just chasing personal records, he says as much in his autobiography. His 'farewell tour' was a joke.

 

[Bucking Beads]

He lost two series as captain. Two.

With the best test team of all time. The best

 

[ManWithNoName]

When Punter goes I really hope it's like this.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Mark Taylor was the superior captain to Waugh. He had far more tactical nouse, could swing matches with unorthodox methods. Waugh was strictly orthodox and had the team to deploy his methods and succeed.

 

[Black Diamond]

He shouldn't have done anything better. He did the job fine - keep a strong team culture and let the juggernaut roll over the opposition is all that was necessary. Just saying it didn't require anything brilliant on his behalf.

Again, the 2005 Ashes showed it isn't quite that easy. Hayden, Langer, Ponting, Gilchrist, McGrath, Gillespie etc all became the players they did under Waugh's captaincy. That takes a little be more than just letting the machine go to work IMO.

Ask some New South Welshmen what they think of his captaincy skills and you will get some pretty lukewarm responses. He was very average with the Blues, lacking any sort of imagination.

Fair enough. I wouldn't know about that.

As for selfishness, plenty of examples. Most memorable to spring to mind is 1998 when he cost us that Test against England because he refused to go for runs, giving Gough the opportunity to clean up the tail.

Yes and no. We wouldn't have gotten close if not for him the first place.

Later in his career he was openly just chasing personal records, he says as much in his autobiography. His 'farewell tour' was a joke.

Here are his stats from the beginning of the 2001-02 series against NZ to his final test. As you can see, he was still a good contributor to the side irrespective of a desire for personal glory making the point redundant. I get why people don't like that he had a farewell tour, but lets face it, Ponting should have done the same.

With the best test team of all time. The best

2005 Ashes. Not that easy.

Mark Taylor was the superior captain to Waugh. He had far more tactical nouse, could swing matches with unorthodox methods. Waugh was strictly orthodox and had the team to deploy his methods and succeed.

And surely that is the only relevant measure?

 

[Gough]

Possibly the most overrated Australian captain of all time. Complete tactical numpty and a very selfish player. Was blessed with an exceptional group of players with a pre-established winning mentality.

There is a lot more to being a great captain than the much-lauded 'guts and determination'.

By Christ, I'm going to agree with you on something. Waugh's captaincy record comes as a result of the fact that he had two once in a generation players, Gilchrist and McGrath and arguably the greatest of them all, Warne. The stars aligned for him in a way that it will for no other captain, sans Ponting, in a long time.
That Australian is in a position to regain the No. 1 position again is a credit to Michael Clarke. He has moulded a team that contains significantly less talent than Waugh or Ponting had at hand, and used them innovatively to build a very competitive side. The biggest decision Waugh or Ponting would have had to make this afternoon was how many overs to let McGrath bowl before bringing on Warne.
As someone who also believes the phrase "it's just not cricket" is a lifestyle choice, this series, a traditionally hard fought affair, has been played in a spirit that was notably absent under Clarke's immediate predecessors.
Michael Clarke will be the best captain since Taylor.

 

[Cooldude]

Tug wasn't that great tactically, but you can never underestimate the utter relentless ruthlessness he brought to the side that was far superior to any tactical s**t. The side was just crazy about winning and would do absolutely anything to achieve it, it was really something else

Contrast that with all the buddying and cuddling with the Poms in 05 when we lost it, if Steve Waugh was around he would've told them to *in' do one. Not to mention he would be the only batsman not to play like a bunch of millionaires and would value his wicket

 

[Gough]

Outside of the adoring Australian public, the opinion of the Waugh, and to a lesser extent Ponting, era Australian sides was very poor. A side that was freakishly talented certainly, but one that wasn't particularly sporting. Indian sides, I would argue, have suffered this public perception recently too.