Strategy The Sub

[Unique Name]

With most of our players coming back from injury we are all struggling with the decision of who fits into our best 22. Part and parcel of this question is what do we want from our sub?

Currently we are using it to test the waters with players returning from injury. This is not something we will be doing come finals time.

Do we want the sub to be the most versatile player we have to cover for any player that might get injured? Maybe we're after a hard hitting impact player that will come on during the third quarter full of energy and start smashing the heads of a tiring opposition, or someone who can just run run run.

Posssibilites for sub (i.e fringe players) I think are:

De Boer
Morabito
Clancee
Sheridan
Suban (On current form I don't see him out of the main squad)
Sylvia (With Walters coming back he can't afford to have any quiet games)
Ibbo/Spurr (I think they are fighting each other for a spot in the backline now)


Thoughts??

 

[samFFC]

Would think a utility would be ideal.

Don't think De Boer, C.Pearce or Ibbo/Spurr would suit this role. If we need their sort of player, we can find them within the 21 on the day (eg. Mayne).

We need talent, we need class, we need big-time. Morabito would be ideal, hoping that he gets enough game-time between now and finals to justify him being in the role.

Alternatively, if Walters was fit, he could certainly play the role also.

We had Lachie Neale last year, but he will obviously also be starting 21.

Suban will be playing in the 21.


Can we clone Fyfe?

 

[such is fyfe]

This really ties into the JOhsnon, Pav, Hill walters in for.... thread. Which is an interesting discussion and a delightful problem.

Firstly, I think de Boer, sheridan and clancee will all have a very tough time breaking back into the side, the sub will come from one of the incumbents.

Ibbo and Spurr will both be in the 21. they play different roles. Spurr being the lock down small def which we simply must have. (I still have nightmares of small fwd after small fwd tearing us a new one post roger the dodger) Ibbo is an intercepting hbf, Johnson plays a similar role but after hearing the boss talk about efficiency of running on 6pr I am certain they will both be in the same team as it allows our players to roll across and swap opponents creating either johnson or ibbo and sometimes mcpharlin to peel off and play loose man on whichever side of the ground they are retired.

I am becoming more convinced that walters will come in for neale. This isn't a slight on neale at all, I just think he is playing the role that we had earmarked for son son, just with a greater midfield weighting. Neale will stay in the team as an additional midfield rotation. Sylvia has something to offer that son son simply can't- size. which he loves to use (I think next season will see col playing a similar role to suban.)

Suban and Pearced are the offensive wingmen, Hill and Sutty are defensive wingers (with hill having a do whatever you feel like son license.) I also fit duffield into this category as rebounding defenders and the defensive wingmen play a similar role. Of these players, Hill, sub an and Pearced rotate around. Mora will fit into this group and will be another awesome foil for hill (who is playing career best football).

as samFFC mentioned we need class and a big time clutch player to play the sub role. What is awesome is we will end up having 2 or 3 players missing out on being in the 22 who offer this.

The choice will come down to balance and probably match day match ups. Consider playing Sydney with there tall fwds. Ibbo and Johnson play tighter, meaning sutcliffe must start so we don't lose rebounding run. Play port who don't quite have the same height (though pace could become an issue) igbo and john no play looser allowing them to generate run, then sutcliffe potentially becomes the sub.

all in all, imo the sub will come down to who we are playing and form as we have a number of players that can play a similar role. Sub will come from Mora, Neale or Sutcliffe (who is one of my favourites, and an absolute steal!!).

 

[pokerspiv]

I think Mora is the most likely sub if everyone is fit, purely because he's an impact player who can play anywhere. But as I've said in the other thread it is extremely unlikely that we'll go in finals with no injuries, so the team will pick itself (as Ross likes to say)

 

[clivenator26]

I think a few guys might get the green vest to give them a mini spell, guys like Neale, Mzungu, DPearce, Duffield I can see having an impact as a sub & giving them 1 qtr rather than a complete week off but come finals time it will be a forward or utility type Mora, Sylvia, DeBoer, Clancee or Suban.

 

[Schauermann]

Think it is role for smaller (read more like mid, hbf, FP) players who have not not cemented a spot or have been down on form or fitness like coming back from injury or having down games. Liked Sutcliff and Suban in that role, but don't look like losing a full spot at the moment. Mora looks like a player who can have an impact as sub as well (and not 100% matchfit at AFL level, so a natural selection) and Silvia, too (since he hasn't set the world on fire for me). But surely should be rotated or at least with full games at WAFL level. Probably can't effort a specialist sub player, who has only played 4 last quarter in the last 4 weeks, in a critical games with an first quarter injury...

Don't think Clancee, DeBoer or Neale did that well as subs. They all have more impact working all day. Sub needs a hand (well better foot) for going damage quickly with a few disposals and explosivness.

 

[pavsbootlace]

This really ties into the JOhsnon, Pav, Hill walters in for.... thread. Which is an interesting discussion and a delightful problem.

Firstly, I think de Boer, sheridan and clancee will all have a very tough time breaking back into the side, the sub will come from one of the incumbents.

Ibbo and Spurr will both be in the 21. they play different roles. Spurr being the lock down small def which we simply must have. (I still have nightmares of small fwd after small fwd tearing us a new one post roger the dodger) Ibbo is an intercepting hbf, Johnson plays a similar role but after hearing the boss talk about efficiency of running on 6pr I am certain they will both be in the same team as it allows our players to roll across and swap opponents creating either johnson or ibbo and sometimes mcpharlin to peel off and play loose man on whichever side of the ground they are retired.

I am becoming more convinced that walters will come in for neale. This isn't a slight on neale at all, I just think he is playing the role that we had earmarked for son son, just with a greater midfield weighting. Neale will stay in the team as an additional midfield rotation. Sylvia has something to offer that son son simply can't- size. which he loves to use (I think next season will see col playing a similar role to suban.)

Suban and Pearced are the offensive wingmen, Hill and Sutty are defensive wingers (with hill having a do whatever you feel like son license.) I also fit duffield into this category as rebounding defenders and the defensive wingmen play a similar role. Of these players, Hill, sub an and Pearced rotate around. Mora will fit into this group and will be another awesome foil for hill (who is playing career best football).

as samFFC mentioned we need class and a big time clutch player to play the sub role. What is awesome is we will end up having 2 or 3 players missing out on being in the 22 who offer this.

The choice will come down to balance and probably match day match ups. Consider playing Sydney with there tall fwds. Ibbo and Johnson play tighter, meaning sutcliffe must start so we don't lose rebounding run. Play port who don't quite have the same height (though pace could become an issue) igbo and john no play looser allowing them to generate run, then sutcliffe potentially becomes the sub.

all in all, imo the sub will come down to who we are playing and form as we have a number of players that can play a similar role. Sub will come from Mora, Neale or Sutcliffe (who is one of my favourites, and an absolute steal!!).

I think you may have more than 22 in your best 22.

 

[such is fyfe]

I think you may have more than 22 in your best 22.

About 24 by my count. if only...

Spurr Dawson Ibbo
Johnson Mcpharlin Sutcliffe
Pearce Barlow Hill
Mayne Pav Fyfe
Ballas Clarke Walters
Sandi Mundy Crowley
Int: Suban, Mora (sub), Duffield, Mzungu,

Emg: Neale, Sylvia, DeBoer, Apeness, Silvagni, Sheridan, Clancee,

Neale is super unlucky, and I'd love to keep sylvia in there but can't.

But we don't really operate with a traditional set up..
Mora and Sutcliffe are our best impact sub types but can also impact a full game if required. But Suttcliffe is our long range rebound so he stays. Suban is my other candidate

basically the sub rule sucks.

tl:dr, this is why we pay ross the big bucks.

 

[pavsbootlace]

About 24 by my count. if only...

Spurr Dawson Ibbo
Johnson Mcpharlin Sutcliffe
Pearce Barlow Hill
Mayne Pav Fyfe
Ballas Clarke Walters
Sandi Mundy Crowley
Int: Suban, Mora (sub), Duffield, Mzungu,

Emg: Neale, Sylvia, DeBoer, Apeness, Silvagni, Sheridan, Clancee,

Neale is super unlucky, and I'd love to keep sylvia in there but can't.

But we don't really operate with a traditional set up..
Mora and Sutcliffe are our best impact sub types but can also impact a full game if required. But Suttcliffe is our long range rebound so he stays. Suban is my other candidate

basically the sub rule sucks.

tl:dr, this is why we pay ross the big bucks.

My 22 has 27 in it.

 

[sij1981]

This really ties into the JOhsnon, Pav, Hill walters in for.... thread. Which is an interesting discussion and a delightful problem.

Firstly, I think de Boer, sheridan and clancee will all have a very tough time breaking back into the side, the sub will come from one of the incumbents.

Ibbo and Spurr will both be in the 21. they play different roles. Spurr being the lock down small def which we simply must have. (I still have nightmares of small fwd after small fwd tearing us a new one post roger the dodger) Ibbo is an intercepting hbf, Johnson plays a similar role but after hearing the boss talk about efficiency of running on 6pr I am certain they will both be in the same team as it allows our players to roll across and swap opponents creating either johnson or ibbo and sometimes mcpharlin to peel off and play loose man on whichever side of the ground they are retired.

I am becoming more convinced that walters will come in for neale. This isn't a slight on neale at all, I just think he is playing the role that we had earmarked for son son, just with a greater midfield weighting. Neale will stay in the team as an additional midfield rotation. Sylvia has something to offer that son son simply can't- size. which he loves to use (I think next season will see col playing a similar role to suban.)

Suban and Pearced are the offensive wingmen, Hill and Sutty are defensive wingers (with hill having a do whatever you feel like son license.) I also fit duffield into this category as rebounding defenders and the defensive wingmen play a similar role. Of these players, Hill, sub an and Pearced rotate around. Mora will fit into this group and will be another awesome foil for hill (who is playing career best football).

as samFFC mentioned we need class and a big time clutch player to play the sub role. What is awesome is we will end up having 2 or 3 players missing out on being in the 22 who offer this.

The choice will come down to balance and probably match day match ups. Consider playing Sydney with there tall fwds. Ibbo and Johnson play tighter, meaning sutcliffe must start so we don't lose rebounding run. Play port who don't quite have the same height (though pace could become an issue) igbo and john no play looser allowing them to generate run, then sutcliffe potentially becomes the sub.

all in all, imo the sub will come down to who we are playing and form as we have a number of players that can play a similar role. Sub will come from Mora, Neale or Sutcliffe (who is one of my favourites, and an absolute steal!!).

You sure you aint RTB !! EXCELLENT evaluation mate, youre spot on.

 

[mightydockers]

If only josh simpson had held himself together

 

[Bicco]

Let's ask a different question, who do we sub out and why? In finals we can't be 'giving players a run' so it will have to be for an injury that the sub comes on unless it halfway through the third and the pressure is on.We need someone to play at least two positions, let's say mid and forward. If a defender goes down we can swing forward line changes to cover. So from that I would have Sylvia, Mora, Neale or Suban who can rotate through the middle and can KICK GOALS, if we're under the pump in the finals we need goals not another lockdown player (sorry Deboar). I would have, on currant form, Suban and Neale in the side. Sub will be one of Syliva or Mora. Now my thoughts on this (I said somewhere else) is that its best to have an experienced player as a sub as they are more likely to be able to adjust to the tempo. For me, Mora just hasn't got enough footy into him......yet, so IMO he and Sylvia are the best bets for sub.
A long shot would be Keplar as he can play forward and back or even ruck. Come finals we need goals and lots of them, we won't be holding Sydney and Hawthorn to 5 goals for the match The sub should have proven goal kicking potential.

 

[pokerspiv]

In finals it's most likely to be a 2nd ruck subbed out. We don't do it during the regular season because it's important to manage Sandilands' workload. But when you get to the pointy end of the season and winning is all that counts, my guess is that we'd sub out Clarke and leave Sandilands to ruck the rest of the game out. That's assuming nobody is injured or having an off day.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

Don't think Clancee, DeBoer or Neale did that well as subs. They all have more impact working all day. Sub needs a hand (well better foot) for going damage quickly with a few disposals and explosivness.

Yeah that's my thought on it as well.

Barring using it for resting/returning/down-on-form players, my requirement for the sub when healthy would be pace, pace, pace, skill and pace. Morabito or Sylvia fit this role ideally IMO.

Having said that, if we have a fully fit main squad, fitting either of them in is amazingly difficult.

 

[Scatter]

Baring injuries, Sylvia to start but come off as sub, don't think he has the required fitness that we need from our forwards for 4 quarters.
Mora to me is ideal sub. You need someone with pace (which I reckon is why Neale, De Boer & Clancy aren't suited), and Mora has the added benefit in his versatility, big enough to play tall(ish) forward, can go mid, or even back since that is where he played most of his WAFL recently.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Morra would be great. Give him.more game time let him gain confidence then come finals he can come on with a bang.

He can play mid, wing, hb and hf. So versatile and a big body to impact tge contest come finals.

 

[yoong]

Our sub will just need to be a midfield who can provide some fresh running.

Say a forward needs to be sub out, fyfe can be moved forward to cover. Similarly for a defense, mzungu or mundy can be moved back to cover. Ruck wise, Sandi and Clarke can both ruck out the game so we'll just have more runs.

so we are kind of versatile in that way.

 

[Big Animal]

The Perfect sub would be a Fyfe clone: a ball winning mid who can have great effect on a game and help set up, assist and/or kick goals. He can play on ball, on wing, or anywhere forward and will have even greater effect against tiring opponents, particularly with his speed and size.

So who is the closest to fitting that description that currently sits on the cusp of our 22: Morabito

 

[Drei Sparren]

The Perfect sub would be a Fyfe clone: a ball winning mid who can have great effect on a game and help set up, assist and/or kick goals. He can play on ball, on wing, or anywhere forward and will have even greater effect against tiring opponents, particularly with his speed and size.

So who is the closest to fitting that description that currently sits on the cusp of our 22: Morabito

if he is a Fyfe clone surely we would have him as a starter not a sub?

 

[Big Animal]

if he is a Fyfe clone surely we would have him as a starter not a sub?

No, because the other 20 positions would already be taken up with Fyfe clones

 

[sij1981]

Let's ask a different question, who do we sub out and why? In finals we can't be 'giving players a run' so it will have to be for an injury that the sub comes on unless it halfway through the third and the pressure is on.We need someone to play at least two positions, let's say mid and forward. If a defender goes down we can swing forward line changes to cover. So from that I would have Sylvia, Mora, Neale or Suban who can rotate through the middle and can KICK GOALS, if we're under the pump in the finals we need goals not another lockdown player (sorry Deboar). I would have, on currant form, Suban and Neale in the side. Sub will be one of Syliva or Mora. Now my thoughts on this (I said somewhere else) is that its best to have an experienced player as a sub as they are more likely to be able to adjust to the tempo. For me, Mora just hasn't got enough footy into him......yet, so IMO he and Sylvia are the best bets for sub.
A long shot would be Keplar as he can play forward and back or even ruck. Come finals we need goals and lots of them, we won't be holding Sydney and Hawthorn to 5 goals for the match The sub should have proven goal kicking potential.

Good analysis, as RTB said what ever the role requires to get the job done that player will come.