The Suns and their recruiter

fpcookie

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#26
He is better than most, his longevity in the industry proves that.
Besides how easy is it to make a future prediction on a 17yo effort in years to come?
If we judged Bontempelli on effort advice from his coaches, he wouldn't be at the club.
What were you saying about knowing very little?
 

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Moderator #27
It's quite easy to be critical when they're having a down period - last year those same kids, plus some quality mature players, surpassed all expectations. It's no secret that Ablett is crucial to that midfield - perhaps a little too crucial. But when you've got the best player in the game standing next to you most weeks, it can take a while to adjust when he's suddenly not there. They're missing their key forwards at the moment as well. The effort simply hasn't been there and it's hard to judge talent when it isn't.

Martin will take a bit more time but is an exceptional talent. O'Meara is out for the year but is a genuine talent also. Prestia, Swallow, Bennell and Kolodjashnij would walk into most teams in the competition as midfielders who can play elsewhere. For key position players, Lynch will be exceptional, Dixon is very solid but constantly injured, May is one of the better young key defenders in the league and Thompson looks like being so too. In the ruck both Zac Smith and Tom Nicholls have shown flashes of star potential and are still very young for ruckmen. Gorringe has shown a little bit too. McKenzie, Shaw, Lemmens, Leslie, Day, Boston and Sexton all have attributes to work with as they develop. Then they have an assortment of really solid types, like Stanley, Day, Hallahan, Rischitelli, etc. Not to mention that they nailed the 2014 draft in my mind - I have every faith in Peter Wright being a long-term, exceptional player for them and Touk Miller and Jarrod Garlett both already look very capable at AFL level.

It's also easy to forget how young they are given the hype around them - they still have the 17th-youngest main list average age in the competition. Now, casting your biases aside, it is extremely, extremely rare for such a young list to make the finals. They're supremely talented but experience gives you what talent can't - they're lacking that.

They're not performing to expectations and this needs to be rectified - particularly their effort levels. But it's too easy to start criticising their recruiting and talent levels while they're having a down period.
 

Pannalstaroz

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#29
Day is overrated. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. Thompson is a bit meh to me. May is ok. Lynch is good but doesn't scream match winner just yet. I'm a bit nonplussed with GC, but I might be in the minority.
 

Doggy Dan

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#30
Day is overrated. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. Thompson is a bit meh to me. May is ok. Lynch is good but doesn't scream match winner just yet. I'm a bit nonplussed with GC, but I might be in the minority.
Then we both are, at what point does a minority become a consensus?
 

stefoid

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Thread starter #31
Hmmm, David Swallow, Dion Prestia, Harley Bennell might have something to say about that.
I couldnt say - Finey lauded Prestia, but he said Bennell and Swallow not reaching potential - alluding to consistency of performance I guess.

Theres no doubt they have picked a fair few players with talent - how could they not, with a shotgun approach to draft picks, but at some point talent has to translate to performance.
 
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dogzrule

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#35
They have been a bit scattergun in their recruiting, particularly age wise, I guess so they didnt end up bottom for their first 5 seasons but as players age and get injured they have had holes exposed in their list

Compare it to GWS who have mostly a young side, or the old ones they had were just 1-2 year fill ins but concentrate on development from the bottom up the whole way through
 

immortalmike

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#36
Day is overrated. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. Thompson is a bit meh to me. May is ok. Lynch is good but doesn't scream match winner just yet. I'm a bit nonplussed with GC, but I might be in the minority.
Agree, much prefer our more blue collar spine. Especially if we can find an effective CHF.
 

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Mutt

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Moderator #38
Agree, much prefer our more blue collar spine. Especially if we can find an effective CHF.
If their spine is so good, and they have the best player in the competition, and a host of other first round picks, why haven't they played finals yet?

They won't play finals this year either by the look of it so far. They are so dependent upon Ablett it is ridiculous. They have made a lot of very, very poor choices with their mature age recruits and few of their draftees are making the impact that a lot of other similar aged kids are.

The AFL must be very disappointed with the Suns so far...and then they appointed Rocket. Baffling to me.
 

ErnieSigley

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#39
Recruiters don't just look at stats. If they did Dayle Gartlett would have been a first rounder.
How do you judge a player's efforts at 17 yo then? Some were even younger.

GCS problems are more to with their environment then picking the wrong young talent. They instantly became the 'rich kids' and the lack a hard work ethic came about later.
 

BRWB

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#40
If their spine is so good, and they have the best player in the competition, and a host of other first round picks, why haven't they played finals yet?

They won't play finals this year either by the look of it so far. They are so dependent upon Ablett it is ridiculous. They have made a lot of very, very poor choices with their mature age recruits and few of their draftees are making the impact that a lot of other similar aged kids are.

The AFL must be very disappointed with the Suns so far...and then they appointed Rocket. Baffling to me.
Its not that their spine is so good, its that well ours is so comparatively bad.

Redpath, Cordy, et al wouldn't even be on their list let alone getting games.
 

Mutt

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Moderator #41
Its not that their spine is so good, its that well ours is so comparatively bad.

Redpath, Cordy, et al wouldn't even be on their list let alone getting games.
I agree that on exposed form our spine is poor BRWB. Those who are drooling over the Sun's spine though are over-rating them in my view. I like May but the rest are flakey.
 

BRWB

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#42
I agree that on exposed form our spine is poor BRWB. Those who are drooling over the Sun's spine though are over-rating them in my view. I like May but the rest are flakey.
Cool, all I said was I'd swap our spine for theirs in a heartbeat. Think you are under rating Lynch and Day. When fit Dixon's good, and I'd love either of their young rucks. And there's Wright on the sidelines, who we were massively into.
 

immortalmike

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#43
Its not that their spine is so good, its that well ours is so comparatively bad.

Redpath, Cordy, et al wouldn't even be on their list let alone getting games.
Don't consider them as part of our spine going forward. Redpath is a VFL player, Cordy would be a FP.

I don't see
FB: Roughead
CHB: Talia
C: Liberatore/Bontempelli
CHF: Crameri/Stringer
FF: Boyd

As comparatively bad at all. Sure they bat deeper but so they bloody well should.
 

BRWB

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#44
Don't consider them as part of our spine going forward. Redpath is a VFL player, Cordy would be a FP.

I don't see
FB: Roughead
CHB: Talia
C: Liberatore/Bontempelli
CHF: Crameri/Stringer
FF: Boyd

As comparatively bad at all. Sure they bat deeper but so they bloody well should.
Talia's done little to warrant being placed ahead of Day is just a fringe player at present, Boyd is miles behind Lynch. And Crameri/Stringer aren't KPs. Not saying our list is terrible. But shit we are miles behind GCS in big blokes. You can add Roberts and Campbell to Cordy and Redpath who wouldn't be on GCS' list. And I suppose when I said spine, I meant big blokes, you won't catch me swapping Libba, Macrae, Stringer or Bont for anyone;)
 

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Moderator #45
Cool, all I said was I'd swap our spine for theirs in a heartbeat. Think you are under rating Lynch and Day. When fit Dixon's good, and I'd love either of their young rucks. And there's Wright on the sidelines, who we were massively into.
Apart from May, none of the Gold Coast talls are ever in the conversation about best keypo's in the league...and never will be in my view.
 

BRWB

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#46
Apart from May, none of the Gold Coast talls are ever in the conversation about best keypo's in the league...and never will be in my view.
I've seen Lynch hyped on our board by many posters on this Board alone. Guess we will find out if its going to be the very players you are dissing that may well stop us winning a premiership!!

An eg from 2010 redo draft thread...

1. Luke Parker
2. Jack Darling
3. Dyson Heppell
4. Thomas Lynch
5. Tom Liberatore
6. Brodie Smith
7. Dion Prestia
8. Luke Dahlhaus
9. David Swallow
10. Jeremy McGovern
11. Harley Bennell
12. Jeremy Howe
13. Isaac Smith
14. Tom McDonald
15. Michael Hibberd
16. Jared Polec
17. Will Langford
18. Mitch Wallis
19. Paul Puopolo
20. Andrew Gaff

The order I would draft them in today (ignoring injuries) based on current output and assessment on likely value to the club through their careers.
 

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#47
Talia's done little to warrant being placed ahead of Day is just a fringe player at present, Boyd is miles behind Lynch. And Crameri/Stringer aren't KPs. Not saying our list is terrible. But shit we are miles behind GCS in big blokes. You can add Roberts and Campbell to Cordy and Redpath who wouldn't be on GCS' list. And I suppose when I said spine, I meant big blokes, you won't catch me swapping Libba, Macrae, Stringer or Bont for anyone;)
Disagree, but I think I have far more faith in what I've seen of Talia, Roberts and Campbell than you do. Stringer is 192 cms and is a beast one on one, if he's not a a KPP neither is Hawthorn's Roughead who is 193cms. Personally I see him as a long term mid but at this stage he's a gun forward. Crameri plays tall and puts most of the GC forwards to shame when it comes to production as a tall. I stand by my comment that I'd take our first choice spine over theirs especially long-term.
 

womble54

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#48
They have been a bit scattergun in their recruiting, particularly age wise, I guess so they didnt end up bottom for their first 5 seasons but as players age and get injured they have had holes exposed in their list

Compare it to GWS who have mostly a young side, or the old ones they had were just 1-2 year fill ins but concentrate on development from the bottom up the whole way through
The first three years of the GWS list inception was a more blatent tank than the Kruzer Cup. Whilst they certainly would have loved a marquee player, they weren't prepared to pay the price for one and stockpiled early draft picks by playing 19 year old against men week after week. To be honest in their position I would have done exactly the same. It has set them up enourmously with a depth of potentially extraordinary talent. If they can keep both Shiel and Trelor this year they will become a potentially unstoppable force like the lions did in the early nauties. Beyond this I prefer the GWS selections in the main (lol Scully). They got totally lucky with Cameron but selecting a large number of tall forwards has really paid of uncovering McCarthy as a mid first rounder. He's a gun.
 

womble54

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#49
I've seen Lynch hyped on our board by many posters on this Board alone. Guess we will find out if its going to be the very players you are dissing that may well stop us winning a premiership!!

An eg from 2010 redo draft thread...
Stealer :). Yes I'll put my hand up for Lynch. That's exactly where I place him in that draft (given I did it two days ago!). Give him another year or so and I see him in the top few forwards in the AFL.
 

BRWB

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#50
Disagree, but I think I have far more faith in what I've seen of Talia, Roberts and Campbell than you do. Stringer is 192 cms and is a beast one on one, if he's not a a KPP neither is Hawthorn's Roughead who is 193cms. Personally I see him as a long term mid but at this stage he's a gun forward. Crameri plays tall and puts most of the GC forwards to shame when it comes to production as a tall. I stand by my comment that I'd take our first choice spine over theirs especially long-term.
And yet there are people going nuts when its suggested that Cordy be left out as Boyd would be the only tall, and others who want Stringer playing midfield. Crameri doesn't take contested marks and is clearly not KP. Look I think you are literally stretching our players to prove your point. I think you are incorrect.

And being specific, I'd swap all of our big blokes for all of GCS' in a microsecond. And no, I don't count Crameri, Bont or Stringer, or Macrae or Libba or Dalhaus as big blokes.

We should of course move on...
 
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