The Syrian War

[Total Power]

As long as you apply the same level of scepticism to stories that do not back up your opinion I respect that.

I dont believe in anything mate, not the MSM not the other side, but the al-masdar news site you quoted is pro-assad. I am not here making statements about conspiracy theories, i am merely investigating them skeptically.

 

[awaremind]

All cracking sources! now maybe i quote britbart? Dude i live in Bulgaria, i am telling you the site you are quoting is fake. The journo you are quoting only exists under an alias. Every single time i press the conspiracy theoriests on their sources i get the same s**t! But why would i stop you from believing in stuff you want to anyway? its like listening to fox news. Quoting buzzfeed shows you are desperate to prove your point.

Btw i am not saying the Bulgarian arms deal did not happen, it might have happened, but the sources you are quoting are all bogus.

Now quoting amasdarnews, wow how awesome, a pro-assad newspaper, so what you expect? i want to see unbiased sources not biased sources! if you are going to quote pro-whtever sources you will not be able to eliminate confirmation bias. Journalism is all about unbiased opinions without taking a side, what you expect a pro-assad newspaper so say about US??

How's this, I've just found YOU are fake news, as what you are claiming about trud is not true according to Wikipedia, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trud_(Bulgarian_newspaper)

 

[awaremind]

I dont believe in anything mate, not the MSM not the other side, but the al-masdar news site you quoted is pro-assad. I am not here making statements about conspiracy theories, i am merely investigating them skeptically.

Well I do follow almasdar pretty close and while they are undoubtedly pro Assad they do post news that reflects badly on Assad sometimes. They can be wrong too, but usually are proved true, as much of the info relates to events of the war. They are definitely more honest than the pro rebel sources.

 

[Total Power]

How's this, I've just found YOU are fake news, as what you are claiming about trud is not true according to Wikipedia, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trud_(Bulgarian_newspaper)

Largest circulating! holy cow, in my 10 years living here, i have never seen a single copy, anywhere, but yeah wikipedia says so, must be true

 

[Total Power]

Well I do follow almasdar pretty close and while they are undoubtedly pro Assad they do post news that reflects badly on Assad sometimes. They can be wrong too, but usually are proved true, as much of the info relates to events of the war. They are definitely more honest than the pro rebel sources.

The point is NOT whether the not the sources post stuff that good or bad, MSM also posts anti-government stuff at times, but their bias is towards pro-government stuff. They are posting pro-regime stuff so what you expect them to say? we want unbiased journalism without bias

 

[awaremind]

The point is NOT whether the not the sources post stuff that good or bad, MSM also posts anti-government stuff at times, but their bias is towards pro-government stuff. They are posting pro-regime stuff so what you expect them to say? we want unbiased journalism without bias

I don't speak Arabic so it's pretty hard to verify stuff. They put that guys name and position out there, better than unnamed sources so common in MSm propaganda.

 

[Total Power]

I don't speak Arabic so it's pretty hard to verify stuff. They put that guys name and position out there, better than unnamed sources so common in MSm propaganda.

My job is to skeptically examine the sources you are quoting. Everytime i check a CT source there is either bias or no references found. The sites you quote are biased (buzzfeed ffs!!!!) , i am merely stating that fact, if you are convinced its a good source good on ya, but its far from convincing as far as i am concerned

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

How's this, I've just found YOU are fake news, as what you are claiming about trud is not true according to Wikipedia, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trud_(Bulgarian_newspaper)

Interesting you even write this, let alone rely on Wikipedia, when your original claim was that you knew the article to be:

https://trud.bg/350-diplomatic-flights-carry-weapons-for-terrorists/
Here's the actual, well researched article.

Almost like you said "well researched" because you wanted it to be, not because you knew it actually was.

I mean, sure the said article had such obviously stupid statements like:

At least 350 diplomatic Silk Way Airlines flights transported weapons... the state aircraft of Azerbaijan carried on-board tens of tons of heavy weapons and ammunition"

Tens of tons! Wow. Over 3 years and 350 flights.... Oh. But don't worry, later they say "hundreds of tons". So well researched. Like this bit where they decide to "name a few":

documents for weapons deals and diplomatic clearance for overflight and/or landing in Bulgaria and many other European countries, USA, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Turkey, to name a few

Sure, that's literally a list, pretty much in order, of the countries Russia likes the least, but the sentence also doesn't make sense.

And just in case you are a simpleton like me, and think this sounds horrendously lacking in any detail, they've got that covered by repeating the earlier accusation, but with more detail of exactly the stuff that isn't pertinent and is also clearly just made up:

According to the documents, Azerbaijan's Foreign Ministry has sent instructions to its embassies in Bulgaria and many other European countries to request diplomatic clearance for Silk Way Airlines flights. The embassies sent diplomatic notes to the Foreign Ministry of the relevant country to request such exemption. The Foreign Ministry sent back a note signed by the local civil aviation authorities giving exemption for the transportation of dangerous goods"

Those "many other European countries" again. Really surprised they didn't mention them, given they claim to have proof and all.

So well researched.

Oh, and the brilliant research leads them to say Silk Way Airlines flew "all" of the "non-US standard weapon supplies", which were worth "$1 billion". Yep. Some dunce thinks the US army would only have $1B worth of non-US standard weapon supplies and that they'd ALL be flown by Azerbaijan. Cuckoo crazy stuff.

This is clearly a made-up article. If you can't see that, you may have to admit to yourself that you are naive.

Buzzfeed article, as I said, looks fine. Just because your crazy article switches at one point to basically quote that article unattributed for a bit, doesn't give it credence. The crazy dumb article actually disagrees with Buzzfeed and pretends that the weapons were never used by rebels (Buzzfeed says the moderates were overpowered, quoting the US Govt admitting as much when they point out only a handful of rebels were left fighting). Russian propaganda instead wants to claim the US directly supplied jihadis. Which of course doesn't make sense, but dumb people and conspiracy theorists do believe it.

(and yes I had to type those quotes out, because the site is such a fraud it doesn't even allow copy and paste)

 

[awaremind]

My job is to skeptically examine the sources you are quoting. Everytime i check a CT source there is either bias or no references found. The sites you quote are biased (buzzfeed ffs!!!!) , i am merely stating that fact, if you are convinced its a good source good on ya, but its far from convincing as far as i am concerned

Maybe at a war crimes tribunal one day, someone will face justice for arming Syrian and foreign jihadis. Doubt it though. Until then the only people interested in finding out the truth will be fringe journalists, or soon to be fringe journalists.

 

[Total Power]

Maybe at a war crimes tribunal one day, someone will face justice for arming Syrian and foreign jihadis. Doubt it though. Until then the only people interested in finding out the truth will be fringe journalists, or soon to be fringe journalists.

Truth, according to you? quoting a pro-assad newspaper is not really the truth, nowhere near it.

No one actually knows what the stiaution is, its impossible to get the truth without bias, that is a fact.

 

[Total Power]

Interesting you even write this, let alone rely on Wikipedia, when your original claim was that you knew the article to be:

Almost like you said "well researched" because you wanted it to be, not because you knew it actually was.

I mean, sure the said article had such obviously stupid statements like:

Tens of tons! Wow. Over 3 years and 350 flights.... Oh. But don't worry, later they say "hundreds of tons". So well researched. Like this bit where they decide to "name a few":

Sure, that's literally a list, pretty much in order, of the countries Russia likes the least, but the sentence also doesn't make sense.

And just in case you are a simpleton like me, and think this sounds horrendously lacking in any detail, they've got that covered by repeating the earlier accusation, but with more detail of exactly the stuff that isn't pertinent and is also clearly just made up:

Those "many other European countries" again. Really surprised they didn't mention them, given they claim to have proof and all.

So well researched.

Oh, and the brilliant research leads them to say Silk Way Airlines flew "all" of the "non-US standard weapon supplies", which were worth "$1 billion". Yep. Some dunce thinks the US army would only have $1B worth of non-US standard weapon supplies and that they'd ALL be flown by Azerbaijan. Cuckoo crazy stuff.

This is clearly a made-up article. If you can't see that, you may have to admit to yourself that you are naive.

Buzzfeed article, as I said, looks fine. Just because your crazy article switches at one point to basically quote that article unattributed for a bit, doesn't give it credence. The crazy dumb article actually disagrees with Buzzfeed and pretends that the weapons were never used by rebels (Buzzfeed says the moderates were overpowered, quoting the US Govt admitting as much when they point out only a handful of rebels were left fighting). Russian propaganda instead wants to claim the US directly supplied jihadis. Which of course doesn't make sense, but dumb people and conspiracy theorists do believe it.

(and yes I had to type those quotes out, because the site is such a fraud it doesn't even allow copy and paste)

I can quote gatestone institute as well, very well researched too, but you missed the whole point. The post scanned copies of documents which are the size of a thumbnail, way to critically examine something.

The article might be true, i said it before it may have happened but the way the documents are presented it doesn't prove anything really. The documents were obtained from Anonymous bulgaria so were the diplomatic cables, which were not verified. Anonymous is not wikileaks, they have released a whole host of fake stuff before. Without critically examining the documents (which you cant even read) you are already concluding its a well researched article. Yes well researched based on the cables released by a no-name group who are already unreliable

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

I can quote gatestone institute as well, very well researched too, but you missed the whole point. The post scanned copies of documents which are the size of a thumbnail, way to critically examine something.

I didn't miss that. You had already mentioned it. No point repeating the same stuff over and over again - I'm not these other mugs.

I did add the bit that you can't even copy the text.

Oh, and in case you missed the crazy 'I'll convince myself of anything' logic, awaremind has switched from claiming Trud is the most popular newspaper in Bulgaria to now saying only fringe journalists can report this stuff.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Maybe at a war crimes tribunal one day, someone will face justice for arming Syrian and foreign jihadis. Doubt it though. Until then the only people interested in finding out the truth will be fringe journalists, or soon to be fringe journalists.

I'm not sure why you waste your time arguing with a MSM line-towing apologist.

You could slap that bloke in the face with the truth & he'd still deny it till he was blue in the face....He's way too invested in the 'West being the good guise at all costs' narrative.....And any evidence to the contrary must be denied or negated forthwith.

 

[awaremind]

Interesting you even write this, let alone rely on Wikipedia, when your original claim was that you knew the article to be:

Almost like you said "well researched" because you wanted it to be, not because you knew it actually was.

I mean, sure the said article had such obviously stupid statements like:

Tens of tons! Wow. Over 3 years and 350 flights.... Oh. But don't worry, later they say "hundreds of tons". So well researched. Like this bit where they decide to "name a few":

Sure, that's literally a list, pretty much in order, of the countries Russia likes the least, but the sentence also doesn't make sense.

And just in case you are a simpleton like me, and think this sounds horrendously lacking in any detail, they've got that covered by repeating the earlier accusation, but with more detail of exactly the stuff that isn't pertinent and is also clearly just made up:

Those "many other European countries" again. Really surprised they didn't mention them, given they claim to have proof and all.

So well researched.

Oh, and the brilliant research leads them to say Silk Way Airlines flew "all" of the "non-US standard weapon supplies", which were worth "$1 billion". Yep. Some dunce thinks the US army would only have $1B worth of non-US standard weapon supplies and that they'd ALL be flown by Azerbaijan. Cuckoo crazy stuff.

This is clearly a made-up article. If you can't see that, you may have to admit to yourself that you are naive.

Buzzfeed article, as I said, looks fine. Just because your crazy article switches at one point to basically quote that article unattributed for a bit, doesn't give it credence. The crazy dumb article actually disagrees with Buzzfeed and pretends that the weapons were never used by rebels (Buzzfeed says the moderates were overpowered, quoting the US Govt admitting as much when they point out only a handful of rebels were left fighting). Russian propaganda instead wants to claim the US directly supplied jihadis. Which of course doesn't make sense, but dumb people and conspiracy theorists do believe it.

(and yes I had to type those quotes out, because the site is such a fraud it doesn't even allow copy and paste)

There is absolutely no doubt the rebels of different flavours are being armed by the USA, just the fact they have been trained on the Syria Jordan border and sent forth into the desert invading Syrian territory from a neighbouring state shows that there is a covert war of aggression going on. I'm assuming either that article is a translation so easy to see how mistakes could be made. None of your arguments are decisive. For those who think arming jihadist is unlikely, The us and its media acted as the propaganda arm for al Qaeda for a few months during the liberation of Aleppo at the end of last year, i for one haven't forgotten the barrage of pro terrorist articles that went on as hts killed civilians who attempted to escape the eastern pocket. Ffs they tried to give a Nobel to al Qaeda rescue corps...

 

[Total Power]

I'm not sure why you waste your time arguing with a MSM line-towing apologist.

You could slap that bloke in the face with the truth & he'd still deny it till he was blue in the face....He's way too invested in the 'West being the good guise at all costs' narrative.....And any evidence to the contrary must be denied or negated forthwith.

Stop lying, where hve i have the west being good guys? you are deliberately being obtuse to spread your propaganda obviously. I said i dont buy the notion (like you naive ones) that this side is good and the other side is bad. The blame for radical Islam not only lies with the West it lies with many other parties as well. Quote me where i said the west are the good guys? just another day another lie from P35

Merely pointing out the bullshit sources you rely on to make your point. MSM is not the only one quoting bs you know

 

[awaremind]

I didn't miss that. You had already mentioned it. No point repeating the same stuff over and over again - I'm not these other mugs.

I did add the bit that you can't even copy the text.

Oh, and in case you missed the crazy 'I'll convince myself of anything' logic, awaremind has switched from claiming Trud is the most popular newspaper in Bulgaria to now saying only fringe journalists can report this stuff.

You'll note I said soon to be fringe, as now trud has gotten rid of her and she is being investigated by authorities

 

[Total Power]

You'll note I said soon to be fringe, as now trud has gotten rid of her and she is being investigated by authorities

And yet the article is still on their website. Don't you find that funny??

 

[awaremind]

And yet the article is still on their website. Don't you find that funny??

It would look a bit too cover uppy if they fully tried to delete it all I guess.

 

[Total Power]

It would look a bit too cover uppy if they fully tried to delete it all I guess.

So firing someone for an article doesnt look like a cover-up, but deleting it is? maybe Anonymous BG is a crap source posting fake news.

youtube, fox/cnn deletes stuff on a regular basis mate. There is nothing to see here

 

[awaremind]

The Armenian Weekly takes it seriously....https://armenianweekly.com/2017/08/29/dilyana-gaytandzhieva-fired/
However to be fair Armenia and Azerbaijan are enemies...

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

So firing someone for an article doesnt look like a cover-up, but deleting it is? maybe Anonymous BG is a crap source posting fake news.

youtube, fox/cnn deletes stuff on a regular basis mate. There is nothing to see here

Remember to conspiracy theorists, everything is a cover up. Like how religious people say fossils were put there by God to deliberately 'test' their faith. Everything that goes against their theory proves it's a conspiracy. Everything that goes for it, proves it's a conspiracy.

And to be a bit clearer. The Buzzfeed article is a legit article. The Trud one is not. They aren't saying the same thing in the slightest. The US arming rebels wasn't hidden. They've admitted to support and upon examination had to admit it had been a failure. Because that's one of the good thins in a working Democracy. Dodgy stuff still happens, but when it's found out, people feel the need to explain themselves. Trump and the internet culture that rose with him do not believe in that. It's all a game of left v right or black v white or whatever to them and a core idea of truth or reality isn't important to them.

 

[Total Power]

Remember to conspiracy theorists, everything is a cover up. Like how religious people say fossils were put there by God to deliberately 'test' their faith. Everything that goes against their theory proves it's a conspiracy. Everything that goes for it, proves it's a conspiracy.

And to be a bit clearer. The Buzzfeed article is a legit article. The Trud one is not. They aren't saying the same thing in the slightest. The US arming rebels wasn't hidden. They've admitted to support and upon examination had to admit it had been a failure. Because that's one of the good thins in a working Democracy. Dodgy stuff still happens, but when it's found out, people feel the need to explain themselves. Trump and the internet culture that rose with him do not believe in that. It's all a game of left v right or black v white or whatever to them and a core idea of truth or reality isn't important to them.

This is precisely the point. This is a well known fact that CIA are arming the so called "moderate" rebels, who are pretty much Al-Nusra. Then the other hand where are these undercover jounros when its time to disclose the crime by pro-assad regime? i regularly meet refugees here who have been tortured and harrassed by Assad regime cause they won't serve in the military. All we are asking for is a coverage is fair and balanced. Telling people one side of the story and selling it as objective truth is just misleading the masses. This is why i call p35 and his buddies naive, cause they believe MSM to be fake (which is partly true) but subscribes to the fact that Assad is a democratically elected president of the state. Laughable

 

[Total Power]

That's just jibber jabber, they haven't been very open about what they are doing at all, they admitted to that laughable failure of a program, but are quiet about the operation ongoing on the Jordanian border. The buzz feed article is pretty damning in itself, and the trud article goes further in details of the operation. Without close examination of the sources it's impossible to conclusively say the article is bollocks or not, but its is fact that Syrian rebels recieved weapons somehow. Al Qaeda and Isis did end up with a lot of ATGMs that is undeniable, and it wasn't just loot.

Even if the article is true, this is no revelation. CIA/US and allies supplying arms to the rebels is a well known fact, i am not sure what is so enlightening about the article?

 

[awaremind]

This is precisely the point. This is a well known fact that CIA are arming the so called "moderate" rebels, who are pretty much Al-Nusra. Then the other hand where are these undercover jounros when its time to disclose the crime by pro-assad regime? i regularly meet refugees here who have been tortured and harrassed by Assad regime cause they won't serve in the military. All we are asking for is a coverage is fair and balanced. Telling people one side of the story and selling it as objective truth is just misleading the masses. This is why i call p35 and his buddies naive, cause they believe MSM to be fake (which is partly true) but subscribes to the fact that Assad is a democratically elected president of the state. Laughable

Huh you decry the fact that we don't attack Assad? Isn't that what the msm is for? It's not fair and balanced, so it's important people hear the other side of the story....

 

[awaremind]

Even if the article is true, this is no revelation. CIA/US and allies supplying arms to the rebels is a well known fact, i am not sure what is so enlightening about the article?

The trud one? I guess just the claims that the Azeri airline has been using diplomatic privileges in the delivery of the arms which indicates the players involved went to a lot of trouble to do this in secrecy.