Society/Culture The Taxation system is unfair on high income earners

[Bradesmaen]

A CEO does almost nothing? Wow

From the outside they seem to do a lot, from the inside in my experience, they faff about, create bullshit to distract and take the money after a few years.

 

[Jello_B]

From the outside they seem to do a lot, from the inside in my experience, they faff about, create bullshit to distract and take the money after a few years.

Not sure what companies you have worked for and at which level but I've never seen this. CEO like many other high ranking jobs and you're working 24/7, there is not much but work.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Not sure what companies you have worked for and at which level but I've never seen this. CEO like many other high ranking jobs and you're working 24/7, there is not much but work.

Working as in, going to meetings and chatting with other bosses, running fingers over dollars, but not actually doing anything. Delegating tasks. They don't work. Look at Trump.. he's supposed to be a CEO but suddenly being president and working all the time, he's complaining about how much work there is to do?

 

[Buzz Hawk]

I'm a high earning taxpayer and am fine with that as long as my taxes go to the poor, needy, underprivileged, sick, elderly etc.
Would happily pay more too for the NDN etc. I don't need the money and have the capacity to pay more, what really shits me are the multi national, global companies (hello Apple, Google, Chevron etc) who divert funds elsewhere and avoid tax. Go for those bastards.

 

[pugsville]

The taxations system is very unfair , very unfair on high income earners .Let me give you some facts, the below facts include all working age Australians

The top 10% highest income earners pay 52% of all the income tax in this country
The top 30% pay 84%
The top 50% pay 98%

The bottom 50% of income earners in this country pay 2% of the tax income in this country with is just ridiculous .

Lets look at just Australians in the workforce

The top 10% pay 46%
The top 30% pay 76%
The top 50% pay 93%

The bottom 50% income earners of working Australians pay 7% of the tax income in this country which is also ridiculous .

The above just shows the need to cut back spending , we have a unhealthy reliance on a small number of people who are carrying this country .

http://theconversation.com/factchec...ia-paid-by-10-of-the-working-population-45229

These stats do not include children or people past the pension age .

Whats wrong with those getting the greatest benefit from society paying more? Isnt user pays classic right wing philosophy.

Remember rich people are supported by poor people not the other way around. You can only be rich if others are working to maintain you in that lifestyle.

Money is a social construct and most be placed within society to have any value or meaning.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Whats wrong with those getting the greatest benefit from society paying more? Isnt user pays classic right wing philosophy.

Remember rich people are supported by poor people not the other way around. You can only be rich if others are working to maintain you in that lifestyle.

Money is a social construct and most be placed within society to have any value or meaning.

Can you explain to me how someone who always leaves work early is supporting some who always works overtime?

How is someone who works 30 hours a week supporting someone who works 60 hours a week ?

How is someone who works no jobs supporting someone who works 2 jobs ?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I'm a high earning taxpayer and am fine with that as long as my taxes go to the poor, needy, underprivileged, sick, elderly etc.
Would happily pay more too for the NDN etc. I don't need the money and have the capacity to pay more, what really shits me are the multi national, global companies (hello Apple, Google, Chevron etc) who divert funds elsewhere and avoid tax. Go for those bastards.

Thats good to hear.

The point needs to be made who is the needy ? We want as many people to not depend on government as possible so we can better look after those who truly are needy.

Taxing high income earnes also does not help others become more independent of government.

Do you want people to thrive or live on the government drip ?

 

[Seeds]

The taxations system is very unfair , very unfair on high income earners .Let me give you some facts, the below facts include all working age Australians

The top 10% highest income earners pay 52% of all the income tax in this country
The top 30% pay 84%
The top 50% pay 98%

The bottom 50% of income earners in this country pay 2% of the tax income in this country with is just ridiculous .

Lets look at just Australians in the workforce

The top 10% pay 46%
The top 30% pay 76%
The top 50% pay 93%

The bottom 50% income earners of working Australians pay 7% of the tax income in this country which is also ridiculous .

The above just shows the need to cut back spending , we have a unhealthy reliance on a small number of people who are carrying this country .

http://theconversation.com/factchec...ia-paid-by-10-of-the-working-population-45229

These stats do not include children or people past the pension age .

As someone who earns in the top 1-2 per cent of income I agree that taxes on income are too high. We should have taxes on wealth instead of income to greater incentivise work.

 

[Seeds]

Think that OP may need some rewording like...
Should pay but once their accountants become involved actually pay...

That applies to the 0.05 percent of very high income earners. Most high income earners cant afford fancy accountants or trusts and pay there proper amount of tax.

 

[Seeds]

Doesn't matter how you spin it, at least 50% of the nation's income is received by 20% of the population, and that 20% receives at least as much as the other 80% of the population combined.
Fix this iniquity and the tax issues will solve themselves.

You need to look past fruitcake ideology and get to the real issues.

You arent making the right argument to help your point. You need to explain why high income earners incomes are too high? You havnt even attempted to do this.

 

[FredLeDeux]

As someone who earns in the top 1-2 per cent of income I agree that taxes on income are too high. We should have taxes on wealth instead of income to greater incentivise work.

We need a mix.
Reintroducing inheritance tax would be a good first step.

 

[Taylor]

Whats wrong with those getting the greatest benefit from society paying more? Isnt user pays classic right wing philosophy.

Remember rich people are supported by poor people not the other way around. You can only be rich if others are working to maintain you in that lifestyle.

Money is a social construct and most be placed within society to have any value or meaning.

Most of that work being done by the poor to keep the rich Australian rich is happening in other nations.

The quality of life in Australia is depending on those other nations not having an upwardly mobile middle class, so it makes me wonder why we pretend to care with foreign aid at all.

Australians don't want Indonesia to get better, that would make it more expensive.

 

[Seeds]

I worked out that if you had two children in school then you needed to be earning above $74,000 a year and never get sick to not be a net negative on the nation's finances.

Allowing almost everybody in the country a similar standard of living is one of the best things about Australia. Yes, some people have bigger houses or more expensive cars but the poorest person here is still in the top single digit percentage wealth on the planet.

Taking more from the bottom won't improve the standard of living for those people and they spend their lives watching media showing how questionably capable people are living opulent lives off little effort - making the bottom half of earners have to work even harder won't go down well. Nobody wants to take a step backwards, they will just come and get your TV instead.

Your argument is basically the equivalent of giving in to terrorists. Give them money otherwise they will invade your home and steal from it anyway. Surely you can come up with a better argument then that?

 

[Taylor]

We need a mix.
Reintroducing inheritance tax would be a good first step.

I think this will happen when the next generation inherit the monster super funds of my generation who died before 80 and never saw it.

All of them retired by 55 off the back of mum and dad dying before they got to retire and leaving them hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

[Seeds]

Most of that work being done by the poor to keep the rich Australian rich is happening in other nations.

The quality of life in Australia is depending on those other nations not having an upwardly mobile middle class, so it makes me wonder why we pretend to care with foreign aid at all.

Australians don't want Indonesia to get better, that would make it more expensive.

The richer other countries are the cheaper are their goods they can import to us which improves our standard of living and the more consumers there are for us to sell goods to which improves our real income and again increases our standard of living all else equal. The lower capital costs are as well because of greater global supply of capital. Thus the cheaper is housing and all technologies really. We benefit if other countries are doing well just like we benefit if our neighbour is doing well.

 

[Taylor]

Your argument is basically the equivalent of giving in to terrorists. Give them money otherwise they will invade your home and steal from it anyway. Surely you can come up with a better argument then that?

Your argument is relating people who want a good life for their children to terrorists.

The minimum standard of living in the nation decides what level of crime you want.

We can lower it by taxing tax money away from support services, but then those wealthy need to pay for better security.

It is all about minimising the divide between people.

 

[Elroo]

The taxations system is very unfair , very unfair on high income earners .Let me give you some facts, the below facts include all working age Australians

The top 10% highest income earners pay 52% of all the income tax in this country
The top 30% pay 84%
The top 50% pay 98%

The bottom 50% of income earners in this country pay 2% of the tax income in this country with is just ridiculous .

Lets look at just Australians in the workforce

The top 10% pay 46%
The top 30% pay 76%
The top 50% pay 93%

The bottom 50% income earners of working Australians pay 7% of the tax income in this country which is also ridiculous .

The above just shows the need to cut back spending , we have a unhealthy reliance on a small number of people who are carrying this country .

http://theconversation.com/factchec...ia-paid-by-10-of-the-working-population-45229

These stats do not include children or people past the pension age .

You don't talk to me thankyou very much.

 

[Taylor]

The richer other countries are the cheaper are their goods they can import to us which improves our standard of living and the more consumers we have to sell goods to them. The lower capital costs are as well because of greater global supply of capital. We benefit if other countries are doing well.

You're right, that's why we have such a booming production export industry in Australia for common goods everyone has in their homes.

Oh. That s**t is all made by $2 a week earning Asian people? How much will those appliances cost if that slave labour has to cost more because they want to live in a home a quarter as nice as our average scum hole here?

 

[Seeds]

Your argument is relating people who want a good life for their children to terrorists.

The minimum standard of living in the nation decides what level of crime you want.

We can lower it by taxing tax money away from support services, but then those wealthy need to pay for better security.

It is all about minimising the divide between people.

You are just making the point that high income earners should pay extra tax only to pay for police and security. Use a utilitarian argument to make your point. It goes far beyond security.

 

[Seeds]

You're right, that's why we have such a booming production export industry in Australia for common goods everyone has in their homes.

Oh. That s**t is all made by $2 a week earning Asian people? How much will those appliances cost if that slave labour has to cost more because they want to live in a home a quarter as nice as our average scum hole here?

You are only thinking about part of the system and not the whole system. And its not slave labour wages its free market wages. That is part of your problem in thinking. there is a reason why free market wages are so low in developing countries. There is so very little capital and what capital there is, is often horded by a corrupt elite. If developing people are to become richer it will be through capital growth and that capital growth turns them into consumers and makes products cheaper.

 

[FredLeDeux]

You arent making the right argument to help your point. You need to explain why high income earners incomes are too high? You havnt even attempted to do this.

That's true, it relates to basic attitudes and beliefs about politics, society and economics, and I didn't bother because it would require discussion far beyond the scope of this type of forum, particularly one started by the OP.

I shouldn't really have joined in at all, it's just that the OP's arguments about politics, society and economics make me feel nostalgic.

I haven't heard them all put together the way he does it since the mid-60s when I used to hear them from the idiot and idle sons of the rich at my private school (who were filling in time there until they could take over dad/grandpa's business) and parrotted from their half-heard and half-understood dinner conversations with dad and mother.

 

[Taylor]

You are only thinking about part of the system and not the whole system. And its not slave labour wages its free market wages. That is part of your problem in thinking. there is a reason why free market wages are so low in developing countries. There is so very little capital and what capital there is, is often horded by a corrupt elite. If developing people are to become richer it will be through capital growth and that capital growth turns them into consumers and makes products cheaper.

If I were a rich elite in that example of yours, why don't I just get richer as more money flows in? Competition for services between one rich elite and another trying to hire people alone isn't going to boost wages and increase the standard of living for their population as a whole.

 

[Taylor]

You are just making the point that high income earners should pay extra tax only to pay for police and security. Use a utilitarian argument to make your point. It goes far beyond security.

My point actually isn't about high income earners paying more tax, it's that money spent on services to lift the quality of life for low income earners benefits the high income earners too so they can look at it as paying their protection money if they feel better for it.

 

[pugsville]

Thats good to hear.

The point needs to be made who is the needy ? We want as many people to not depend on government as possible so we can better look after those who truly are needy.

Taxing high income earnes also does not help others become more independent of government.

Do you want people to thrive or live on the government drip ?

So why don't you apply the same metric to upper class welfare and the private school and hoispital systems? Why are they paid as entitlement when they are not needed.? Why isn't it good for them to independent of government?

 

[pugsville]

Can you explain to me how someone who always leaves work early is supporting some who always works overtime?

How is someone who works 30 hours a week supporting someone who works 60 hours a week ?

How is someone who works no jobs supporting someone who works 2 jobs ?

Well for starters it's generally poor people working the long hours and two jobs and generally the crappy jobs.

But Money represents the resources of society, the more money you get the more of societies resources you get to control and the more you benefit from society and other people's work.