Society/Culture The Taxation system is unfair on high income earners

[geelong_crazy26]

people often think they are hard done by and extra hard working. It's a popular delusion. I've heard it from the well off forever. Work a real badly paid job, pulling long hours , because you have no other choice and then get back to me. What the longest time you working a sub minimum wage job for 80 hours a week? Liberal part branches in touch with working australia. thats why the liberal part generates such brain dead policies. I've had a pretty schizoid workinhg life occilating between pretty highly paid and pretty lowly paid. Poor people work a lot harder. They have to. Capitalism is not a meritoancy.

Can you explain to me how someone working 80 hours per week is poor ? someone who works 80 hours a week on the minimal wage would earn $80,000 a year . Also the idea that someone who can work 80 hours a week cant get job that pays above the minimum wage is ridiculous .

Look at people that don't have much money and you can trace the reason why they don't have much money back to poor decisions they have made. All someone has to do to make a comfortable living is do well at school and go and get a qualification in an industry that pays well . People can even go to University as an adult part time while working . People can also learn a trade that pays well or even learn on the job . If anyone come up with a good business idea they can get credit from A bank .

Why when there are so many opportunities to do some people still struggle ? bad choices such as wasting their education ,wasting their money, having children at a young age , poor work ethic ,committing crimes ,taking drugs , don't get along with people etc

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Look at people that don't have much money and you can trace the reason why they don't have much money back to poor decisions they have made. All someone has to do to make a comfortable living is do well at school and go and get a qualification in an industry that pays well . People can even go to University as an adult part time while working . People can also learn a trade that pays well or even learn on the job . If anyone come up with a good business idea they can get credit from A bank .

Yep. It's piss easy. There are absolutely no circumstances preventing everyone from being wealthy, nor is inequality a structural requirement of capitalism.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Yep. It's piss easy. There are absolutely no circumstances preventing everyone from being wealthy, nor is inequality a structural requirement of capitalism.

If you are born in this country you can make a good living for yourself if you make good choices , we have free university that gets paid back once you earn over $54,000 . Basically the better your choices the better your standard of living .

 

[AngryRanga]

Can you explain to me how someone who always leaves work early is supporting some who always works overtime?

How is someone who works 30 hours a week supporting someone who works 60 hours a week ?

How is someone who works no jobs supporting someone who works 2 jobs ?

You need to extend your idea of wealthy/poor a little further than works hard/doesn't work hard.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

If you are born in this country you can make a good living for yourself if you make good choices , we have free university that gets paid back once you earn over $54,000 . Basically the better your choices the better your standard of living .

You need to look up the definition of 'free'. Most of us take it to mean 'without cost'.

 

[pugsville]

Can you explain to me how someone working 80 hours per week is poor ? someone who works 80 hours a week on the minimal wage would earn $80,000 a year . Also the idea that someone who can work 80 hours a week cant get job that pays above the minimum wage is ridiculous .

Many people work for below minimum wage. Many people face the choice of either accepting this employment or not working. Do you actual know , really know poor people. You experience seems to limited to one of privilege.

Look at people that don't have much money and you can trace the reason why they don't have much money back to poor decisions they have made.

Capitalism is not a meritoancy. Hard work does not equal success and easy money, most people who work had are poor, working at low paid jobs. Mots of the truely hard unwanted jobs are the worst paid. Most of the rewarding interesting jobs are highly paid. There is not an endless number of 'good' jobs. The system is set up to produce winers and losers.

All someone has to do to make a comfortable living is do well at school and go and get a qualification in an industry that pays well . People can even go to University as an adult part time while working . People can also learn a trade that pays well or even learn on the job . If anyone come up with a good business idea they can get credit from A bank . Why when there are so many opportunities to do some people still struggle ? bad choices such as wasting their education ,wasting their money, having children at a young age , poor work ethic ,committing crimes ,taking drugs , don't get along with people etc

Spoken as the unthinking child of privilege who simply does not understand the reality of the real world. Word of mouth and connections is often the way together good jobs. People who know people. Those with a good network, which is often a product of class and the 'right' school just get opportunity after opportunity. If you and all your family and friends are poor the chances just don't crop up that often. Yes there are quite a few examples of people who can work there way up. But the vast majority people who are well off are well off because their parents were. And that trend is increasing in Australian society.

The biggest determine in wreath and poverty is the wreath and poverty of you parents,

The study History has taught me at least this much, no privileged group in human history has ever had any trouble justifying the state of affairs that makes them privileged and can explain at length of it's best for everyone including the poor that society is the way it is.

This is why the liberal party is devoid of anything resembling thoughtful policy.

Really have you got anything to say other than how hard rich people have it and could they please be excused form paying tax?

 

[quotemokc]

Everyone should be taxed the same amount regardless of income.

And no more tax loopholes.

Business taxes are a whole other kettle of fish, I am talking strictly income tax.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

You need to look up the definition of 'free'. Most of us take it to mean 'without cost'.

No up front costs and no repayments until you earn more than $54,000 makes university open to everyone.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

No up front costs and no repayments until you earn more than $54,000 makes university open to everyone.

Yes. So, not free.

You are thick.

 

[nylexbandit]

The average team of blokes fixing potholes on a highway payed more tax than GOOGLE did in Australia last financial year.
Want to see who needs to pay their ******* way?
Right here.
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-09/tax-data-transparency-ato/8106178

The way to tax google is unfortunately via sales tax. Makes sense they shouldn't suffer huge tax in australia

 

[Royal Flush]

Whilst people that work hard during the day earning a "decent " slightly above average income, purchase a 4 year interest free tv and enjoy watching it each evening .
There is another person , who doesn't have the T.V. they couldn't pay for in cash and is working long hours after his day job trying to build a business, researching and planning to build something that will replace his day job.
Enjoy your Doritos while watching the block and winge about how easy your employer has it.

People that build their own employment through business , do what others dare not.
They put their balls on the line, their soul and their life.
They back their dreams with their life savings, choosing risk over security.

Anyone that is unhappy in their current circumstances should change those, and your not limited by education, class and ethnicity.
The typical multi millionaire in this country is not tertiary educated and is most likely an immigrant.

It's sickening to think anyone can criticise an employer for being "rich"
They most likely have put life and family on hold and perhaps even got divorced for the focus in direction they have.



On EVA-L09 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[pugsville]

Whilst people that work hard during the day earning a "decent " slightly above average income, purchase a 4 year interest free tv and enjoy watching it each evening .
There is another person , who doesn't have the T.V. they couldn't pay for in cash and is working long hours after his day job trying to build a business, researching and planning to build something that will replace his day job.
Enjoy your Doritos while watching the block and winge about how easy your employer has it.

People that build their own employment through business , do what others dare not.
They put their balls on the line, their soul and their life.
They back their dreams with their life savings, choosing risk over security.

Anyone that is unhappy in their current circumstances should change those, and your not limited by education, class and ethnicity.
The typical multi millionaire in this country is not tertiary educated and is most likely an immigrant.

It's sickening to think anyone can criticise an employer for being "rich"
They most likely have put life and family on hold and perhaps even got divorced for the focus in direction they have.

On EVA-L09 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Do you not frequent the real world once in a while? Your cheap stereotypes have no basis what so ever in reality.

Most people who are wealthy are wealthy because their parents were. Most people who work hard do not get ahead. The fact that some people form poor background work hard and get ahead (these people are very visible , you fro not tend to hear about the ones who do not, confirmation bias at work) should not obscure that getting ahead is mostly unrelated to hard work, class and background are the key determents. Capitalism is NOT a meritocracy.

What I was objecting to is people on very high incomes whinging and moaning about how hard they have it. They pay more tax.So what? So they should, the rich do benefit from society more than poor. Whats wrong with contributing to the society that keeps you so very nicely?

The Well off often object to paying tax and often use their influence not to. This i'm opposed to. Negative gearing, Superannuation, trusts, giving away our resources to mining companies, allowing multi nationals to massive offshore profits are rorts of the system I'd like to see fixed up. Not all resource extraction, superannuation or trusts are rorts, but plenty of them are.

I'm not criticising people for being Rich. I'm criticising those who think that makes them better than other people and that they should not contribute to society.

The OP says that the top income earners should pay less tax. I think it behooves that posters to say exactly were the cuts would be to fund this.

 

[Royal Flush]

Do you not frequent the real world once in a while? Your cheap stereotypes have no basis what so ever in reality.

Most people who are wealthy are wealthy because their parents were. Most people who work hard do not get ahead. The fact that some people form poor background work hard and get ahead (these people are very visible , you fro not tend to hear about the ones who do not, confirmation bias at work) should not obscure that getting ahead is mostly unrelated to hard work, class and background are the key determents. Capitalism is NOT a meritocracy.

What I was objecting to is people on very high incomes whinging and moaning about how hard they have it. They pay more tax.So what? So they should, the rich do benefit from society more than poor. Whats wrong with contributing to the society that keeps you so very nicely?

The Well off often object to paying tax and often use their influence not to. This i'm opposed to. Negative gearing, Superannuation, trusts, giving away our resources to mining companies, allowing multi nationals to massive offshore profits are rorts of the system I'd like to see fixed up. Not all resource extraction, superannuation or trusts are rorts, but plenty of them are.

I'm not criticising people for being Rich. I'm criticising those who think that makes them better than other people and that they should not contribute to society.

The OP says that the top income earners should pay less tax. I think it behooves that posters to say exactly were the cuts would be to fund this.

You lost all credibility when you said "most people who are wealthy are because their parents are wealthy"

I think you need to challenge your thinking . That's why you are most likely stuck in some sort of rut

On EVA-L09 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[William Wonka]

The way to tax google is unfortunately via sales tax. Makes sense they shouldn't suffer huge tax in australia

Ok.
Did you read the list?
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-09/tax-data-transparency-ato/8106178
How do you feel about you yourself paying more tax than
American Express
BHP Billiton Alumina
CSR
Ford
Heinz
Honda
IBM
McDonald's
COMBINED?

 

[pugsville]

You lost all credibility when you said "most people who are wealthy are because their parents are wealthy"

I think you need to challenge your thinking . That's why you are most likely stuck in some sort of rut

On EVA-L09 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Reality denial syndrome. you need to get out more and engage with reality. Wealthy people come from weatlhs backgrounds generally.

Coming form a wealthy background has advantages. DO you serious find this a challenging thing to accept?


I'm actually very highly paid right now. I have no problems with paying taxation in line with my earnings.

 

[Seeds]

Yep. It's piss easy. There are absolutely no circumstances preventing everyone from being wealthy, nor is inequality a structural requirement of capitalism.

inequality of opportunity is not a structural requirement of all capitalist societies and lefties on here continually say they only want equality of opportunity not outcome.

 

[FredLeDeux]

inequality of opportunity is not a structural requirement of all capitalist societies and lefties on here continually say they only what equality of opportunity not outcome.

Inequality of opportunity may not be a requirement of all capitalist societies, but offhand I can't think of one where it isn't or hasn't been a fact.

 

[Seeds]

Many people work for below minimum wage. Many people face the choice of either accepting this employment or not working. Do you actual know , really know poor people. You experience seems to limited to one of privilege.


Capitalism is not a meritoancy. Hard work does not equal success and easy money, most people who work had are poor, working at low paid jobs. Mots of the truely hard unwanted jobs are the worst paid. Most of the rewarding interesting jobs are highly paid. There is not an endless number of 'good' jobs. The system is set up to produce winers and losers.



Spoken as the unthinking child of privilege who simply does not understand the reality of the real world. Word of mouth and connections is often the way together good jobs. People who know people. Those with a good network, which is often a product of class and the 'right' school just get opportunity after opportunity. If you and all your family and friends are poor the chances just don't crop up that often. Yes there are quite a few examples of people who can work there way up. But the vast majority people who are well off are well off because their parents were. And that trend is increasing in Australian society.

The biggest determine in wreath and poverty is the wreath and poverty of you parents,

The study History has taught me at least this much, no privileged group in human history has ever had any trouble justifying the state of affairs that makes them privileged and can explain at length of it's best for everyone including the poor that society is the way it is.

This is why the liberal party is devoid of anything resembling thoughtful policy.

Really have you got anything to say other than how hard rich people have it and could they please be excused form paying tax?

The unwanted jobs are usually the highest paid. Demand and supply suggests unwanted jobs get high pay. That is why unskilled mining jobs in the Pilbara got paid so much. No one wants them which forces the wage up. Likewise with boring jobs that dont require a difficult skill set like accountants. Jobs like teachers, nurses and policeman are terribly low paid given their skill sets because there is so much demand for them. You really need to educate yourself a bit about how the labour market works if you want to comment about it.

 

[Seeds]

Inequality of opportunity may not be a requirement of all capitalist societies, but offhand I can't think of one where it isn't or hasn't been a fact.

true. there has never been a society with true equality of opportunity. The welfare state capitalist systems we have now are the closest there has ever been but there is still a long way to go.

 

[FredLeDeux]

true. there has never been a society with true equality of opportunity. The welfare state capitalist systems we have now are the closest there has ever been but there is still a long way to go.

I was going to exempt the garden of Eden but obviously, reading between the lines, her physical assets gave her an unfair advantage.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Many people work for below minimum wage. Many people face the choice of either accepting this employment or not working. Do you actual know , really know poor people. You experience seems to limited to one of privilege.


Capitalism is not a meritoancy. Hard work does not equal success and easy money, most people who work had are poor, working at low paid jobs. Mots of the truely hard unwanted jobs are the worst paid. Most of the rewarding interesting jobs are highly paid. There is not an endless number of 'good' jobs. The system is set up to produce winers and losers.



Spoken as the unthinking child of privilege who simply does not understand the reality of the real world. Word of mouth and connections is often the way together good jobs. People who know people. Those with a good network, which is often a product of class and the 'right' school just get opportunity after opportunity. If you and all your family and friends are poor the chances just don't crop up that often. Yes there are quite a few examples of people who can work there way up. But the vast majority people who are well off are well off because their parents were. And that trend is increasing in Australian society.

The biggest determine in wreath and poverty is the wreath and poverty of you parents,

The study History has taught me at least this much, no privileged group in human history has ever had any trouble justifying the state of affairs that makes them privileged and can explain at length of it's wbest for everyone including the poor that society is the way it is.

This is why the liberal party is devoid of anything resembling thoughtful policy.

Really have you got anything to say other than how hard rich people have it and could they please be excused form paying etax?

Can you please identify who these people are that are poor but hard working ?

You keep going on about these poor hard working people but you have not once told us who they are , what jobs are these people doing ?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

true. there has never been a society with true equality of opportunity. The welfare state capitalist systems we have now are the closest there has ever been but there is still a long way to go.

The government does provide equal opportunity to everyone , the difference comes from the opportunity provided by the parents .

 

[pugsville]

Can you please identify who these people are that are poor but hard working ?

You keep going on about these poor hard working people but you have not once told us who they are , what jobs are these people doing ?

So you think there are no hard working poor people.

really.

have a think see ho you go . How did you get though school were you spoon fed all the way?

 

[pugsville]

The unwanted jobs are usually the highest paid. Demand and supply suggests unwanted jobs get high pay. That is why unskilled mining jobs in the Pilbara got paid so much. No one wants them which forces the wage up. Likewise with boring jobs that dont require a difficult skill set like accountants. Jobs like teachers, nurses and policeman are terribly low paid given their skill sets because there is so much demand for them. You really need to educate yourself a bit about how the labour market works if you want to comment about it.

No you don't understand how the capitalist system works. Really if you are the ignorant there is little I can do for you.

Why is toilet cleaning so badly paid? because that and other crappy jobs people will do only when they have little choice.

 

[Seeds]

No you don't understand how the capitalist system works. Really if you are the ignorant there is little I can do for you.

Why is toilet cleaning so badly paid? because that and other crappy jobs people will do only when they have little choice.

Because there are large supply of workers who have little to no skills and toilet cleaner is one of the jobs they can do. Supply of labour is high given the demand.

Can you tell my why toilet cleaners in australia today get paid far more in real terms then toilet cleaners in the past or toilet cleaners in developing economies?