Current Trial The Teachers Pet Podcast & Chris Dawson's Murder Trial

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Angry Red Bull

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Well lets not talk about OJ Simpson's sports career and personality type.
By your own definition cluster B's are capable of long term relationships as long as the partner sticks around. A partner might stick around for a few reasons - I don't think Malania would stay around, for example, if Trump didn't have a bit of cash, hey.

Oh I see what has happened!......I see where you are coming from now with the co-dependancy traits displayed in the relationship but I have been looking at a different definition....I suppose psychology can be tricky like that with wording. The one I have been looking at is a personality type that is manipitative etc. themselves and are incapable of healthy relationships due to those traits - (It's kind of the ying and yang of it I suppose).....so I think we are just having a communication misunderstanding because of the different definitions - Thank goodness for that because I couldn't understand how you thought that Lyn was being manipulative.

I couldn't work out why you had thought co dependency meant something negative. I didn't view it as so.
 

Angry Red Bull

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NFL is a team sport where certain players have more prominent roles. In particular the quarter back and the running back.unequal treatment. All players aren't equal. He was winner of Heisman trophy as best amateur player. Adored as a running back one of two positions amongst about 60 that are 'special'. Don't think it' negates what I'm saying. He still gets to be special.

In NFL they don't work as a team in like manner. When it's 'his' time to run the ball ALL focus is on him and solely what he does for the team. It for that reason would be one sport where a NPD person could survive
 
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Story

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Don't think it' negates what I'm saying.
I don't agree. Cluster B's can be anywhere - part of it can be about personal goals and doing whatever is needed to achieve that.
It's such a long time ago that CD played that it's hard to know if he liked to push the rules a bit.
I do recall a story (think it was in a podcast) of a friendly touch footy match (I believe they said) - it was years after CD had played professionally as I remember it - and CD shocked others with the way that he played when he tackled and harmed/injured another player in an aggressive manner (ahhh, I wish I had all the accounts written down because there was something dramatic about it). In the account, it seeemed that CD didn't give a damn about his actions being either against the rules or that he had hurt someone, or that the person wasn't a sportman. Wish I could remember more details.

One thing we have heard as well is that Paul seemed to have been the more desired player and wouldn't join a team unless CD was picked too- was this becasue PD was a better team player I wonder?
 
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Story

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I just want to clarify, for anyone that might be reading the thread, because I don't think I explained what I meant. I just think that co-dependency is generally seen in a way that doesn't reflect the 'deeper' aspects, if you know what I mean. I think it's usual definition that people see it in the way that ARB meant it, and I should have realised that when I first read his comment and become upset on behalf of Lyn. It's my understanding that there are deeper aspects....that's when we get to traits that show the person has other stuff going on from childhood etc.- things like a more passive or unconscious manipulation can be seen on the part of the victim that reinforces the cycle of unhealthy relationships and the person is not able to form healthy relationships at that point in their lives. There is a lot of work that needs to happen for the person to heal and get a better self image that will break the cycle. That's what I mean by the ying and yang of it. As I say, I'm not a psychologist, outside of my armchair, but that is my understanding of of how it works. The first thing has to be to get away from the person causing the harm, imo.
We can't say that Lyn was a co-dependent personality type (most people of that personality type go from short term to short term relationships too) but Lyn and CD could have had a co-dependent relationship. As I said I didn't hear of manipulative behaviour on Lyn's part or that she wasn't able to form healthy relationships. Outside of CD her relaionships seemed healthy imo. All we know at this point is that Lyn looks to have been in a DV situation and that the perpetrator of the DV was CD. That can happen to anyone really. The overt abuse might have been building in the last months of the marriage and Lyn was trying to come get her head around what was happening to the person she loved - She told her sister that she thought CD should go to a doctor about his anger/abuse. That would show that things were changing around that issue and Lyn had not always felt like she might be physically abused by him and 'needed' to excuse his actions which is something you'd see in co-dependency.
 
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FTY1

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Chris Dawson's carnal knowledge charge of a student 10- less than 17 has been pushed back to next year because of publicity. Can't get too many details because of paywalls
 

BFew

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Chris Dawson's carnal knowledge charge of a student 10- less than 17 has been pushed back to next year because of publicity. Can't get too many details because of paywalls

Voila!

The longer the delay, the increased chance that Chris Dawson's reported/claimed health issues might result in the case never going to trial, or any conviction not result in any time in jail if found guilty (of the carnal knowledge charges).

'Dawson trial pushed back over publicity concerns

RHIANNON DOWN

12:38PM JULY 15, 2022

Chris Dawson’s trial for allegedly having sexual intercourse with a former student has been pushed back until next year due to the intense publicity surrounding the case.

Mr Dawson was due to face a trial in August on carnal knowledge charges but it has now been delayed until May next year after his lawyer Greg Walsh argued that the intense publicity would damage his prospects of a fair trial.

Mr Walsh also said that Mr Dawson was “fit” but only “just so” to stand trial after he collapsed in the street fractured his hip possibly from a brain injury sustained from his years playing rugby.

“This is the first time in Australia’s criminal justice history such detailed publicity has appeared in print media as well as other media,” he told the court.

“It’s a real risk that (the jurors) could well be affected by their exposure to such reporting.”'

'Carnal knowledge trial for ex-teacher Chris Dawson delayed until 2023

The case against Chris Dawson, accused of underage sex with a then-student, has hit a road bump relating to his pending murder trial verdict.

Emily Burley
July 15, 2022 - 12:24PM

Chris Dawson’s trial for allegedly having sex with an underage student has been delayed by nine months after his lawyer laid out a slew of complications including “egregious” media coverage of the ex-teacher’s murder trial, and its outstanding verdict.

Dawson, 73, was set to stand trial in Sydney’s Downing Centre District Court on August 15, having pleaded not guilty to a single charge of carnal knowledge by a teacher of a girl between the ages of 10 and 17.

In a separate three-month Supreme Court trial, the Crown alleged Dawson murdered his wife Lynette Dawson in 1982 so he could continue his relationship with a former student and baby sitter identified by the court only as JC. Dawson vehemently denied the allegations.

His fate now lies in the hands of Justice Ian Harrison, who is expected to deliver a verdict in September.

In the District Court on Friday, Dawson’s lawyer Greg Walsh laid out several reasons why the carnal knowledge trial should not proceed next month.

“Justice Harrison hasn’t delivered a decision,” Mr Walsh said. “(That could) directly or indirectly impact on the process.

“Publicity (around the murder trial) has been the most egregious type of publicity.

“Jurors could have been exposed to media portraying him as a brutal, callous murderer.”

Mr Walsh also said Dawson was experiencing deteriorating health including a possible brain injury stemming from his rugby league career, and that there had not been time to brief counsel or apply for Legal Aid ahead of the “complex” trial.

The court has heard the carnal knowledge case will hinge on when Dawson first had sex with the student.

The Crown will need to prove Dawson was still the girl’s teacher at the time.

Crown prosecutor Craig Everson SC conceded media coverage of the murder trial had been overwhelming and its “fade factor”, or time to fade from public discourse, was likely to be six to 12 months.

Acting Judge Graeme Henson agreed, and relisted the t
rial for May 18, 2023.

The one-to-two week trial will hear from a number of witnesses.

Dawson was charged with carnal knowledge in 2019, the year after he was charged with his wife’s alleged murder, and almost 40 years after her disappearance.

He remains on bail in Queensland.'
 
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FTY1

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Voila!

The longer the delay, the increased chance that Chris Dawson's reported/claimed health issues might result in the case never going to trial, or any conviction not result in any time in jail if found guilty (of the carnal knowledge charges).

'Dawson trial pushed back over publicity concerns

RHIANNON DOWN

12:38PM JULY 15, 2022

Chris Dawson’s trial for allegedly having sexual intercourse with a former student has been pushed back until next year due to the intense publicity surrounding the case.

Mr Dawson was due to face a trial in August on carnal knowledge charges but it has now been delayed until May next year after his lawyer Greg Walsh argued that the intense publicity would damage his prospects of a fair trial.

Mr Walsh also said that Mr Dawson was “fit” but only “just so” to stand trial after he collapsed in the street fractured his hip possibly from a brain injury sustained from his years playing rugby.

“This is the first time in Australia’s criminal justice history such detailed publicity has appeared in print media as well as other media,” he told the court.

“It’s a real risk that (the jurors) could well be affected by their exposure to such reporting.”'

'Carnal knowledge trial for ex-teacher Chris Dawson delayed until 2023

The case against Chris Dawson, accused of underage sex with a then-student, has hit a road bump relating to his pending murder trial verdict.

Emily Burley
July 15, 2022 - 12:24PM

Chris Dawson’s trial for allegedly having sex with an underage student has been delayed by nine months after his lawyer laid out a slew of complications including “egregious” media coverage of the ex-teacher’s murder trial, and its outstanding verdict.

Dawson, 73, was set to stand trial in Sydney’s Downing Centre District Court on August 15, having pleaded not guilty to a single charge of carnal knowledge by a teacher of a girl between the ages of 10 and 17.

In a separate three-month Supreme Court trial, the Crown alleged Dawson murdered his wife Lynette Dawson in 1982 so he could continue his relationship with a former student and baby sitter identified by the court only as JC. Dawson vehemently denied the allegations.

His fate now lies in the hands of Justice Ian Harrison, who is expected to deliver a verdict in September.

In the District Court on Friday, Dawson’s lawyer Greg Walsh laid out several reasons why the carnal knowledge trial should not proceed next month.

“Justice Harrison hasn’t delivered a decision,” Mr Walsh said. “(That could) directly or indirectly impact on the process.

“Publicity (around the murder trial) has been the most egregious type of publicity.

“Jurors could have been exposed to media portraying him as a brutal, callous murderer.”

Mr Walsh also said Dawson was experiencing deteriorating health including a possible brain injury stemming from his rugby league career, and that there had not been time to brief counsel or apply for Legal Aid ahead of the “complex” trial.

The court has heard the carnal knowledge case will hinge on when Dawson first had sex with the student.

The Crown will need to prove Dawson was still the girl’s teacher at the time.

Crown prosecutor Craig Everson SC conceded media coverage of the murder trial had been overwhelming and its “fade factor”, or time to fade from public discourse, was likely to be six to 12 months.

Acting Judge Graeme Henson agreed, and relisted the t
rial for May 18, 2023.

The one-to-two week trial will hear from a number of witnesses.

Dawson was charged with carnal knowledge in 2019, the year after he was charged with his wife’s alleged murder, and almost 40 years after her disappearance.

He remains on bail in Queensland.'
Thanks BFew. So the permanent stay on the murder charge was because of depression and a couple of falls.

In July 2021 it was:
"The accused in recent times has had two serious falls," Mr Walsh said.

"He's suffered some injuries and also he's suffering from depression."


In July 2022 it is possible brain injury and a broken hip.


What next in May 2023. Will he testify? Will there be another ailment in September this year if found guilty.

 

BFew

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What next in May 2023. Will he testify? Will there be another ailment in September this year if found guilty.
There's still time for a case of the short, medium and long COVID.

Or a serious enough adverse reaction side effects to his 4th, 5th, 6th etc shot of COVID vaccine.

Define Catch-22 GIF by Kev Lavery
 

BFew

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There's still time for a case of the short, medium and long COVID.

Or a serious enough adverse reaction side effects to his 4th, 5th, 6th etc shot of COVID vaccine.

Define Catch-22 GIF by Kev Lavery
I guess that makes COVID-82,
where something bad that happened in 1982, is affected by COVID.
 

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Angry Red Bull

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I tried to get a sense of CD exposure in relation to the historical sex offences relating to JC. Apparently relatively recent legislation introduced in 2018 now makes it appropriate to make sentences based upon current community sentiment and guidelines NOT on historic sentencing guidelines. Looking at the grid of maximum sentences the maximum sentence for sexual intercourse with a girl between 14 and 16 is 10 years. An aggravating factor is whether the person had influence over the child which I presume means a teacher student type relationship. There are a myriad of other factors but it appears if proven there is some serious jail time pending for CD. I would presume there is strong evidence to support that sexual intercourse occurred before her 16th birthday. Even if CD escapes on the murder charge there may be some justice pending in relation to this charge.
 

FTY1

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I tried to get a sense of CD exposure in relation to the historical sex offences relating to JC. Apparently relatively recent legislation introduced in 2018 now makes it appropriate to make sentences based upon current community sentiment and guidelines NOT on historic sentencing guidelines. Looking at the grid of maximum sentences the maximum sentence for sexual intercourse with a girl between 14 and 16 is 10 years. An aggravating factor is whether the person had influence over the child which I presume means a teacher student type relationship. There are a myriad of other factors but it appears if proven there is some serious jail time pending for CD. I would presume there is strong evidence to support that sexual intercourse occurred before her 16th birthday. Even if CD escapes on the murder charge there may be some justice pending in relation to this charge.
If the person is a teacher the specific offence for carnal knowledge is greater than 10 and less than 17. So the defence will be saying that it did not occur before her 17th birthday in early in 1981. The alleged offences are from 1980.
 

Angry Red Bull

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And Sydney Criminal Lawyers explains it all.


Thanks for that FTY1.

They always talk about maximum sentences. I'd love to know what usual starting sentence occurs. Even if it's half the maximum either way it sounds like he is in line for some serious punishment.

So in summary

Offence up to 1986 bw ages 16 to 17 is 8 yrs max

Under new section it remains 8 yrs max but reduces to 4 yrs max if sex occurred between 17 and 18

Assuming the sentence is mid range then we might be looking at 2 to 4 yrs. I thought I read somewhere too that the impact to child is taken account. In JC case she was groomed, enticed into an ongoing relationship that became long term. Would that not mean an aggravating factor perhaps
 
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Angry Red Bull

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Is this true or just another ruse?


No it's true I think. It was mentioned in trial to suggest that people can walk away like that and draw inferences for LD
 

Angry Red Bull

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To get a CD conviction of the crime of carnal knowledge the prosecution is going to have to convince the jury that JC is more credible than CD that sexual intercourse occurred. There will be no forensic or witness evidence. The remainder of facts are easily proven that one was a student and the other a teacher, also that she became close working as a baby sitter and the notes he gave her indicating closeness. The standard will still be beyond reasonable doubt.
 
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