The Teague Delay

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Blugazi

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Jul 18, 2012
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No judgement. However a pattern appearing in Teague’s coaching - slow starts / fast finishes.

Theories, thoughts, opinions.
 

Mentallo

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Apr 23, 2005
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Something needs to change in the teams pregame routine and by that is it the 60 mins before the first bounce or the 5 mins before the first bounce.
 

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Manhattanite

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I think part of it is the match ups - Teague and his coaching team seem to be very very good at reacting to the other teams strategy and figuring out what changes need to be made to get us back into the game. Teague is probably still handicapped by the quality and age and experience of the players at his disposal. We don’t seem to have our own style of play just yet that we can start with in the first minute of the game and impose our way on to the other team. So we seem to always be playing catch up.

We still have too many passengers. For example if you replaced the following with just another Gibbons type (low cost, nothing fancy, just tries hard) we would win more games than we lose:
Lang
Newnes
Setterfield




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Red Bull

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Teague, his match committee/coaching panel and club management need to have the courage to see the rebuild through to the finish.
We have invested everything in terms of resources and 5 long painful years into the rebuild and we should be close to coming out the other end.
I fear some may be feeling the pressure to win and are being seduced by birth certificates in the misguided hope that they will provide the wins they crave.
Deckchairs are almost always never the answer.
Band aid policy will in the end bring everyone down, usually starting with the coach.
Teague would do well to ponder this.
The cornerstone of Silvagni’s tenure was building a team to win premierships as against just joining the pack in the middle of the road.
My old grandfather always used to tell us kids :
If you start something, you had better be prepared to finish it ...
 

Iamcarlton

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Teague, his match committee/coaching panel and club management need to have the courage to see the rebuild through to the finish.
We have invested everything in terms of resources and 5 long painful years into the rebuild and we should be close to coming out the other end.
I fear some may be feeling the pressure to win and are being seduced by birth certificates in the misguided hope that they will provide the wins they crave.
Deckchairs are almost always never the answer.
Band aid policy will in the end bring everyone down, usually starting with the coach.
Teague would do well to ponder this.
The cornerstone of Silvagni’s tenure was building a team to win premierships as against just joining the pack in the middle of the road.
My old grandfather always used to tell us kids :
If you start something, you had better be prepared to finish it ...
Mostly agree Ed and Murph were obvious choices to slot back into midfield when Teague took over to stabilise what was going on .
But now another preseason down the road one of these 2 need to be transitioned elsewhere or possibly out of the side .

SPS Jack and to a lesser degree Stocker fitness pending all bigger bodies now and one would think pretty good fitness base need to be playing more midfield .

Lang being selected over Philp is probably another example we may have gone too far the other way in selection and positioning .
 
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gbatman

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Not the coach it's the team. Heat is on early in the game and we are a very non-contact non-physical side. Our attack on the ball and man is terrible so we get smashed in the contest.

When the game slows down a bit we do well because we're a fit, good running and skilled side.

These short games wont suit us. We need to rebuild our center group. Big problem with Murphy and Curnow only being average players and so far not much coming through looking to be better.

Need a harder edge and physical aggression and it needs to start in the middle.
 

Magruder

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Nov 14, 2012
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Not the coach it's the team. Heat is on early in the game and we are a very non-contact non-physical side. Our attack on the ball and man is terrible so we get smashed in the contest.

When the game slows down a bit we do well because we're a fit, good running and skilled side.

These short games wont suit us. We need to rebuild our center group. Big problem with Murphy and Curnow only being average players and so far not much coming through looking to be better.

Need a harder edge and physical aggression and it needs to start in the middle.
Yep we are a Cognilio and/or a Wines short.

1-2 high quality mature mids away from breaking even in early exchanges and winning games by 5-8 goals.
 

gbatman

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Yep we are a Cognilio and/or a Wines short.

1-2 high quality mature mids away from breaking even in early exchanges and winning games by 5-8 goals.
Yeah we are, were short of blokes this size/build who are hard hitters who can really play.

Relying on Cripps, Murphy and Curnow in the engine room. It's a group that can run all day but it's poor quality.

Curnow looks a bit cooked, he's not the powerhouse, hard hitting midfield gun and Murphy has no physicality what so ever.

Curnow would still be a good tagger and Murphy a good outside player on a wing but they make a mediocre centre group.

We need to face the fact that we can be a good side with them in it but not in this role. We must find two powerful hard hitting center men to replace them in the middle.

In the meantime I would not be against giving Gibbons a go in there, he puts his head down and goes hard.

I guess we need to keep an eye on the scratch matches and have a crack at recruiting some good center men. Perhaps Wines as you suggested. Someone who will be an upgrade to Murphy and Curnow.
 

J-dog

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I must have watched a different game.
First quarter seemed like constant skill errors.
Looked to me like the team was very hard running but tried to do WAY too much and just didn't settle until quarter time.
I think it's just maturity.
Don't forget these young men know that the country is watching, they are going to worry about how they look if they go a couple of goals down.
Just took a while for them to settle and really get into the groove of the game.
Won't be the last time either
 

btdg

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Yeah we are, were short of blokes this size/build who are hard hitters who can really play.

Relying on Cripps, Murphy and Curnow in the engine room. It's a group that can run all day but it's poor quality.

Curnow looks a bit cooked, he's not the powerhouse, hard hitting midfield gun and Murphy has no physicality what so ever.

Curnow would still be a good tagger and Murphy a good outside player on a wing but they make a mediocre centre group.

We need to face the fact that we can be a good side with them in it but not in this role. We must find two powerful hard hitting center men to replace them in the middle.

In the meantime I would not be against giving Gibbons a go in there, he puts his head down and goes hard.

I guess we need to keep an eye on the scratch matches and have a crack at recruiting some good center men. Perhaps Wines as you suggested. Someone who will be an upgrade to Murphy and Curnow.
It's basically this. Our midfield is reliant on two small, older blokes who lack physicality, plus Cripps and an undersized ruckman, and then we rotate through young blokes. Teams put a hard block on Cripps, monster Murphy/Curnow and the young blokes at contests, and blow us out.

I think we had hoped that young guys would step into this spot but the bigger bodied blokes (Setterfield and Kennedy) haven't been up to it, and our best options have been smaller (Fisher, Gibbons, to a lesser extent Dow) which is good on them, but doesn't help the problem. We also thought we'd get a Dylan Shiel or Devon Smith or... someone but whiffed on that repeatedly too.

As the game goes on, fitness seems to matter more, and we've got big targets to kick to. Murphy and Curnow start to have more impact, Cripps deals with the tag, we come back.

Then in the last few minutes, the game tightens up again and suddenly we're getting monstered. We're about 50/50 in these situations though - Murphy is a surprisingly clutch player with the capacity to find space in important moments, Cripps is Cripps (and particularly tough when his opponent is worn down) and the big blokes are also better against tired opponents or when teams have to push numbers to the ball and they get more space.

We can complain all we like about 'intensity' but all the intensity in the world isn't going to let Murphy beat a fresh Jack Viney to a contested ball in the first 5 minutes of the game.
 

jj1978

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definitely for starts if games we need tacklers at the bounces. Murphy, Walsh out of there... get Big P to be aggressive and ensure if he doesn’t get a clean tap the other ruck doesn’t do much with it. Maybe be creative for example and to get Gov into the game early put him in the middle with Cripps and Curnow... would just love to see them just crunch a few opposition midfielders early... that would resonate the intensity early on with the young players.
 

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SurreyBlue

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I must have watched a different game.
First quarter seemed like constant skill errors.
Looked to me like the team was very hard running but tried to do WAY too much and just didn't settle until quarter time.
I think it's just maturity.
Don't forget these young men know that the country is watching, they are going to worry about how they look if they go a couple of goals down.
Just took a while for them to settle and really get into the groove of the game.
Won't be the last time either
Must have.
1st quarter was all about application. No desire for the contest.
 

Michael Jezz

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Jan 30, 2007
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Yep we are a Cognilio and/or a Wines short.

1-2 high quality mature mids away from breaking even in early exchanges and winning games by 5-8 goals.
Don't think adding 2 mids will change the soft culture. Of course that will make us an 8 to 12 side. We were soft during the Ratten Years (down hill skiers). We need a massive infusion of c....streak to become top 4
 

gbatman

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It's basically this. Our midfield is reliant on two small, older blokes who lack physicality, plus Cripps and an undersized ruckman, and then we rotate through young blokes. Teams put a hard block on Cripps, monster Murphy/Curnow and the young blokes at contests, and blow us out.

I think we had hoped that young guys would step into this spot but the bigger bodied blokes (Setterfield and Kennedy) haven't been up to it, and our best options have been smaller (Fisher, Gibbons, to a lesser extent Dow) which is good on them, but doesn't help the problem. We also thought we'd get a Dylan Shiel or Devon Smith or... someone but whiffed on that repeatedly too.

As the game goes on, fitness seems to matter more, and we've got big targets to kick to. Murphy and Curnow start to have more impact, Cripps deals with the tag, we come back.

Then in the last few minutes, the game tightens up again and suddenly we're getting monstered. We're about 50/50 in these situations though - Murphy is a surprisingly clutch player with the capacity to find space in important moments, Cripps is Cripps (and particularly tough when his opponent is worn down) and the big blokes are also better against tired opponents or when teams have to push numbers to the ball and they get more space.

We can complain all we like about 'intensity' but all the intensity in the world isn't going to let Murphy beat a fresh Jack Viney to a contested ball in the first 5 minutes of the game.
Pretty right on the money though size isn't everything, there are plenty of smaller blokes who play hard and are willing to crash in, they make up for being smaller by hitting with momentum and not holding back from taking a hit and putting their head over it. Not seeing that much at Carlton. Hard tackles. Our blokes getting tackled but hitting hard and breaking a few tackles and taking a few high hits. Not seeing it.

Setterfield is far from a big bodied mid, he's rather light framed but I'd like to see him played in the middle to see if he can do it as he does have intensity and a good tackle on him. Kennedy is not a midfielder, at least not at a great level, he doesn't have it. Maybe without Cripps but a mid like Kennedy along side Cripps, we become slower and less mobile and lose more defensive pressure.

Will Dow or Stocker step up? Skills and physical attributes are there but sometimes it comes down to fearless blind aggression and competitiveness. So let's see it. Let's see some hard hitting, high effort footy. Spots are there for the taking.

Definitely gives us some direction for recruiting. My concern is we go out and get a big bodied mid and end up with a slow second rate one like we have in the past.

High hopes for Kemp but not sure when. Think we have to target Wines. Can't get a bloke who has glaring deficiencies.
 

blue6ers

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Not the coach it's the team. Heat is on early in the game and we are a very non-contact non-physical side. Our attack on the ball and man is terrible so we get smashed in the contest.

When the game slows down a bit we do well because we're a fit, good running and skilled side.

These short games wont suit us. We need to rebuild our center group. Big problem with Murphy and Curnow only being average players and so far not much coming through looking to be better.

Need a harder edge and physical aggression and it needs to start in the middle.
I think JSos will suit this role
 

therubbernub

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I think part of it is the match ups - Teague and his coaching team seem to be very very good at reacting to the other teams strategy and figuring out what changes need to be made to get us back into the game. Teague is probably still handicapped by the quality and age and experience of the players at his disposal. We don’t seem to have our own style of play just yet that we can start with in the first minute of the game and impose our way on to the other team. So we seem to always be playing catch up.

We still have too many passengers. For example if you replaced the following with just another Gibbons type (low cost, nothing fancy, just tries hard) we would win more games than we lose:
Lang
Newnes
Setterfield




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
If DT can shuffle the magnets effectively then thats a hell of a lot better than our last few coaches. Rats was pretty SH at having a plan B as was Mick. Probably give Pagan a pass in that he didnt have the cattle
 

therubbernub

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You think we were that young yesterday -- reckon it was close to oldest side we had for a Long time --
Fair point. But we are still a bit BiPolar- lots of older players and younger players. Still missing the mid aged players that most clubs have. Or the ones we have are hit and miss
 

Accidental genius

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im not sure our issue is poor midfield or a lack of physicality etc. we dominated for long periods after 1st quarter. just meed to work oit these poor starts and be able to take that extra split second to make better decisions. mckay and gov missed a lot of marks that they usually swallow.
 

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