The team of the century

HairyO

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Sure lets look at the year after.

Is the 2005 Brisbane team, who missed the finals the same as the 2004 Brisbane team who made the Grand Final, just because most of the players were the same?

Of course not.

Essendon of 2001 was not the same team as Essendon of 2000, just like Brisbane of 2000 was not the same team as Brisbane of 2001.

Every year is different. Players are at different stages of their careers. The mix is slightly different year-to-year, even though many of the names on paper are the same.

Brisbane did not "beat" Essendon of 2000. They lost by 64 points in round 8 on their Gabba home ground in driving rain.
Still dodging. How about Brisbane 2001 and 2002? Or 2002 and 2003.

Hawthorn 2013 and 2014? Or 2014 and 2015?

Geelong you can pretty much take your pick from 2007 to 2011.
 

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PhatBoy

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Still dodging. How about Brisbane 2001 and 2002? Or 2002 and 2003.

Hawthorn 2013 and 2014? Or 2014 and 2015?

Geelong you can pretty much take your pick from 2007 to 2011.

What has he dodged?

The question was asked 'if Essendon in 2000 were so good why did Brisbane beat them?'

Brisbane, as he correctly pointed out, didn't beat them.

How is this still being argued?
 

Dom PC

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What has he dodged?

The question was asked 'if Essendon in 2000 were so good why did Brisbane beat them?'

Brisbane, as he correctly pointed out, didn't beat them.

How is this still being argued?
2004 Brisbane was not as good as 2001-03 Brisbane... very obvious. So to compare them to the Brisbane of 2005 is just plain stupid.

Essendon lost one player from their 2000 GF team going into the 2001 season (Bewick)... they were the same team.

Essendon had the dominant season sure, but are they the greatest team since 2000... no.
 

PhatBoy

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2004 Brisbane was not as good as 2001-03 Brisbane... very obvious. So to compare them to the Brisbane of 2005 is just plain stupid.

Essendon lost one player from their 2000 GF team going into the 2001 season (Bewick)... they were the same team.

Essendon had the dominant season sure, but are they the greatest team since 2000... no.
Ffs.

The West Indies of 1995 were basically the same team as the West Indies of 1994. so how did they lose?

Oh yeah that's right. Having the same personnel doesn't equal being the same team.
 

Dom PC

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Ffs.

The West Indies of 1995 were basically the same team as the West Indies of 1994. so how did they lose?

Oh yeah that's right. Having the same personnel doesn't equal being the same team.
Steve Waugh, Glenn McGrath, Shane Warne etc. WI faced a better team... that's ignoring the fact in cricket there is only 11 vs 22 in AFL... not a great example.
 

PhatBoy

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Steve Waugh, Glen McGrath, Shane Warne etc. WI faced a better team... that's ignoring the fact in cricket there is only 11 vs 22 in AFL... not a great example.
Fine. What's the point of any team being rated then.

The 03 Lions were shit because the 04 Lions lost.

Our 07 side was shit because the same team lost to the Hawks.

See where this is going?

None of which answers the question 'what relevance to other seasons have to the question, which single season team was the best.'
 

Dom PC

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Fine. What's the point of any team being rated then.

The 03 Lions were shit because the 04 Lions lost.

Our 07 side was shit because the same team lost to the Hawks.

See where this is going?

None of which answers the question 'what relevance to other seasons have to the question, which single season team was the best.'
Geelong choked... they were the best team in 08.

That same team rebounded to win the 09 GF...
 

Dan26

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Essendon lost one player from their 2000 GF team going into the 2001 season (Bewick)... they were the same team..
They weren't the same team.

That's like saying Geelong of 2006 was the same team as Geelong of 2007 because all the players were the same.

If Essendon had an unchanged list from 2000 through to 2017, the 2000 players would be all in their 40's. Would the 2017 team (which would get the wooden spoon with a bunch of 40 year olds) be the same team as the 2000 team just because all the players are the same? Of course not.

Players are at different stages of their careers as years go on. Sometimes teams that look the same on paper from one year to the next are better one season to another because players peak at different times, and are at different stages of their careers.

Another team in 2000, Carlton, was an excellent team that year, and were a premiership contender. They had almost the same players as 1999 when they won only 12 games, and had a percentage of a bit over 100%. The Blues were an also-ran in 1999 and a flag contender in 2000. Why? Because they were a different team in 2000. Maybe the players gelled together better and needed that extra season before it clicked, even though the players were the same from one year to the next.

For whatever reason, sometimes teams improve (or slide) from one year to the next because of the delicate balance of variables that make a team good.
 

Dom PC

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For whatever reason, sometimes teams improve (or slide) from one year to the next because of the delicate balance of variables that make a team good.

I agree with this. That just shows the greatness of a team being able to win multiple premierships with the same players.
 

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PhatBoy

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They came up against a team which was better. Oops. Argument fail.
That's my point though, the team that was better in 95 wasn't as good as the West Indies were in 94 or 93. But by 95 they were because Australia were getting better and the West Indies were getting worse.

Why didn't Hawthorn win in 2016?

Was it because they were actually shit in 2015?
 

PeaTea

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2004 Brisbane was not as good as 2001-03 Brisbane... very obvious. So to compare them to the Brisbane of 2005 is just plain stupid.

Essendon lost one player from their 2000 GF team going into the 2001 season (Bewick)... they were the same team.

Essendon had the dominant season sure, but are they the greatest team since 2000... no.
You're a lunatic
 

HairyO

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That's my point though, the team that was better in 95 wasn't as good as the West Indies were in 94 or 93. But by 95 they were because Australia were getting better and the West Indies were getting worse.

Why didn't Hawthorn win in 2016?

Was it because they were actually shit in 2015?
4 GFs in a row. We ran out of steam.

Did the greatest team ever run out of steam after a single year?

Doesnt sound that great to me.
 

PhatBoy

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4 GFs in a row. We ran out of steam.

Did the greatest team ever run out of steam after a single year?

Doesnt sound that great to me.
THE OTHER SEASONS DONT MATTER. DOES SOMEONE WHO WINS 4 GRAND SLAMS IN A SEASON SOMEHOW NOT GET CONSIDERED TO HAVE HAD A GREAT SEASON BECAUSE THEY DIDNT WIN ANY BEFORE??????
 

HairyO

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THE OTHER SEASONS DONT MATTER. DOES SOMEONE WHO WINS 4 GRAND SLAMS IN A SEASON SOMEHOW NOT GET CONSIDERED TO HAVE HAD A GREAT SEASON BECAUSE THEY DIDNT WIN ANY BEFORE??????
u mad?

Maybe the better argument is, does "the best ever team for a single year" matter as something to celebrate when ultimately that team is derided as a failure for having failed to meet the expectation?
 

PhatBoy

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Apparently Joe Frazier's legendary performance in the Thrilla (which he lost ironically) gets marked down because he was in poor form in his previous fights.

Greg Norman's absolute clinic at the 93 British Open can't be considered a great single golfing major performance because of his failures either side of it.
 

PhatBoy

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u mad?

Maybe the better argument is, does "the best ever team for a single year" matter as something to celebrate when ultimately that team is derided as a failure for having failed to meet the expectation?

The.
Point.
Of.
The.
Article.
And.
The.
Thread.
Is.
Purely.
About.
Single.
Season.
Performances.

Argue their merit as an overall outfit all you want. Do it in a f***ing thread that ISNT dedicated to talking about single, individual seasons.
 

Dan26

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I agree with this. That just shows the greatness of a team being able to win multiple premierships with the same players.
That's really a club achievement more than a team achievement.

A team, really is a "one year thing"

An era is a "two or more year thing."

Both are worthy of praise.

Brisbane never had a great team. None of their 4 teams finished top or had a percentage more than the mid 130's. But they had a great era, that's for sure.

I actually think brisbane's best team was their 2004 team. They had the best percentage of any of their 4 teams and were the most experienced. They just ran into the best opponent Brisbane faced during the 2001-2-3-4 era. Port were a fantastic team in 2004.

Collingwood were overrated in 2002 and 2003. Essendon were stale in 2001 and were playing their worst football at the end of the year. Port were cherry ripe in 2004, and were able to beat the best team Brisbane has produced - their 2004 team.
 

Dan26

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u mad?

Maybe the better argument is, does "the best ever team for a single year" matter as something to celebrate when ultimately that team is derided as a failure for having failed to meet the expectation?
What you've written doesn't make sense. And I mean that literally - it doesn't make sense.

If you acknowledge that they are the best team ever for a single year (which you have) than by definition they HAVE met expectations and are considered a success.

Read what you've written. Read it. It makes no sense.

You're saying they are the best ream, and then saying they are a failure for succeeding in the season in which they were successful.
 

Tuco

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The fallacy in the premise of the article is that we are to rate standalone seasons with all their specific peculiarities against every other and then rate them as if they are like for like.

But they're not.

You can rate Essendon as being the best in 2000. But if you want to spread that mantle out over a number of years (17 or so) then you unfortunately find other teams who are able to spread their achievements out into these inconvenient things called called Three-peats, and multiple premierships.

Carlton were amazing in 95. A colossus. But a one Premiership wonder and not even part of team of the century discussions for a very good reason.

Great teams win for years on end.
 

HairyO

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What you've written doesn't make sense. And I mean that literally - it doesn't make sense.

If you acknowledge that they are the best team ever for a single year (which you have) than by definition they HAVE met expectations and are considered a success.

Read what you've written. Read it. It makes no sense.

You're saying they are the best ream, and then saying they are a failure for succeeding in the season in which they were successful.
It makes perfect sense. Perhaps comprehension is the issue.

I am saying, that the entire premise is dumb, because Essendon is considered to have failed, because that team was meant to be so good they were going to win a bunch of flags. They won one.

So it doesnt matter whether they are the greatest single team ever. They failed to meet the expectation.
 

Dan26

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It makes perfect sense. Perhaps comprehension is the issue.

I am saying, that the entire premise is dumb, because Essendon is considered to have failed, because that team was meant to be so good they were going to win a bunch of flags. They won one.

So it doesnt matter whether they are the greatest single team ever. They failed to meet the expectation.
Essendon won 2 in the eight-year era from 1993-2000. Any club that wins one flag in any era is successful, let alone two in 8 years like the Bombers did. Do you have any idea how hard it is to win even one? They didn't fail the expectations of any reasonable supporter who appreciates the difficulty of winning premierships. Failing would be not winning a premiership. They won one in 2000 - they succeeded. And another in 1993. That's what a premiership is - success.

Whose to say they didn't win two, when factually they did? Eight players from 1993 played in 2000. Does this make it part of the same era?

Essendon from 1993-2001: ------- 1st,10th,5th,4th,14th,8th,3rd,1st,2nd

If Geelong can count 8 years from 2007-2014 (before their 2015 miss), why can't Essendon?

The 2000 premiership was the second premiership for a number of Essendon players.
 
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