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ODN is Michael Gleeson from The Age.:oops::p

Best player if we have pick five to eight. Port brought in other talls after taking Wines and Wingard ahead of Jaksch and Tomlinson.
If there are talls of comparable quality available we have to look at them.

We have Henderson, Jamison, Rowe, Casboult, Kreuzer, Warnock, Giles, Waite, Watson and Wood as our talls. One rookie, one first year player, 3 rucks who can't play key position.
,
How many talls did Port have on their list at the time? We are devoid of talented talls. They do take longer to come on, but who cares at this point? We certainly can't be justifying that a mid has dropped a few spots so take them instead of a tall rated around our draft pick. Another Lucas situation would hurt.

I'm also sceptical about our ability to pick up talls in the 2nd/3rd rounds. Austin, Hartlett, Mitchell, McCarthy, Edwards ... talls in this area can be hit and miss, even for a good recruiter.

I don't want to take a Gumbleton, Hansen risk either but there are probably as many early pick midfielder failures as there are tall failures so you have to be in it to win it.

I'm not quite sure why people have a problem with balance or tend to dismiss big blokes taken early. I assume Michael Gleeson is some journo you disagree with so thanks for that. It does seem to me that sooner or later we have to draft talls that come on at the same time as the midfielders around them, and considering they take longer, it might seem logical to try to find some quality big blokes and build a midfield around them. We're not all able to pull of Buddy Franklin deals or attract two years of Brian Lake with the promise of a premiership in order to fill those gaps.

In fact, I'm trying to think about how many talls we have managed to attract from other teams in the last 15 years of so. Henderson is the obvious stand out.

Warnock, McLaren, McKernan, French, Angwin, Smith, Ackland, Hotton, O'Reilly, Morrell, Martyn, Mott ....

We may get a Livingston early, but we may get a Roughead or Franklin. Boyd and Patton look worthy of building a side around. We've been pretty ordinary at finding talls for a while now. We have relied on father/son selections or rookie gold and a lot of luck. Other teams have been hit and miss but it feels most have got the talls right more often than we have.

It's a draft full of decent top end talls and it is one of our deficiencies. If they are around the same mark, why are we in a hurry to bolster our midfield while still hoping to strike lightning in a bottle finding talls with later draft picks? They won't be performing at the same time anyway.

Probably a moot argument anyway. I'm so jaded by our lack of tall options and ability to develop them, I'm probably leaning towards that Jacksch/Tomlinson type trade where we can get an idea of where they are heading now, instead of risking it in the draft. Problem is that plenty of other teams are looking at any surplus talls as well and we have to present as a better option and a better run club.

Whatever we do, we need strong talls that can kick that will straighten us up and stand a decent chance in contested situations and we need to be able to cover them if they go down. Even if they all work and we have a surplus, they are gold on the trade table.
 

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ItsAllAboutMe

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Port traded for Shultz and Monfries who are arguably there most important cogs in the forward set up. They managed to see something in both of those 2 that I reckon the rest of the footy world didn't.. I for one thought Monfries was rubbish. Perhaps there are similar options floating around the AFL ready to be shown some love, make them work hard and they could fire up in a navy blue jumper.. I cant think of too many names but maybe someone like a Josh Jenkins could do a similar job for us.
 

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If there are talls of comparable quality available we have to look at them.

We have Henderson, Jamison, Rowe, Casboult, Kreuzer, Warnock, Giles, Waite, Watson and Wood as our talls. One rookie, one first year player, 3 rucks who can't play key position.
...
Unfortunately, I'm not overly ecstatic with the state of our midfield going forward. We could very much do with another dynamic player through the middle of the park.
 
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Unfortunately, I'm not overly ecstatic with the state of our midfield going forward. We could very much do with another dynamic player through the middle of the park.
I agree. We can never have enough quality mids. One that can win contested ball but also find space by reading the play (inside/outside), has good skills, and is not treacle slow would be nice. Unless we can find multiple goal kicking mids who work both ways to compliment hard working but inexpensive tall targets, then we have a problem.

Chicken or egg, poor midfield delivery or do we have forwards who can't get out on the lead and demand the ball?

I do think we need to have more diamond in the rough midfielders become key to the side in order to get our full complement instead of relying on early pick midfielders.
 

Silvagnis

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If there are talls of comparable quality available we have to look at them.

We have Henderson, Jamison, Rowe, Casboult, Kreuzer, Warnock, Giles, Waite, Watson and Wood as our talls. One rookie, one first year player, 3 rucks who can't play key position.
,
How many talls did Port have on their list at the time? We are devoid of talented talls. They do take longer to come on, but who cares at this point? We certainly can't be justifying that a mid has dropped a few spots so take them instead of a tall rated around our draft pick. Another Lucas situation would hurt.

I'm also sceptical about our ability to pick up talls in the 2nd/3rd rounds. Austin, Hartlett, Mitchell, McCarthy, Edwards ... talls in this area can be hit and miss, even for a good recruiter.

I don't want to take a Gumbleton, Hansen risk either but there are probably as many early pick midfielder failures as there are tall failures so you have to be in it to win it.

I'm not quite sure why people have a problem with balance or tend to dismiss big blokes taken early. I assume Michael Gleeson is some journo you disagree with so thanks for that. It does seem to me that sooner or later we have to draft talls that come on at the same time as the midfielders around them, and considering they take longer, it might seem logical to try to find some quality big blokes and build a midfield around them. We're not all able to pull of Buddy Franklin deals or attract two years of Brian Lake with the promise of a premiership in order to fill those gaps.

In fact, I'm trying to think about how many talls we have managed to attract from other teams in the last 15 years of so. Henderson is the obvious stand out.

Warnock, McLaren, McKernan, French, Angwin, Smith, Ackland, Hotton, O'Reilly, Morrell, Martyn, Mott ....

We may get a Livingston early, but we may get a Roughead or Franklin. Boyd and Patton look worthy of building a side around. We've been pretty ordinary at finding talls for a while now. We have relied on father/son selections or rookie gold and a lot of luck. Other teams have been hit and miss but it feels most have got the talls right more often than we have.

It's a draft full of decent top end talls and it is one of our deficiencies. If they are around the same mark, why are we in a hurry to bolster our midfield while still hoping to strike lightning in a bottle finding talls with later draft picks? They won't be performing at the same time anyway.

Probably a moot argument anyway. I'm so jaded by our lack of tall options and ability to develop them, I'm probably leaning towards that Jacksch/Tomlinson type trade where we can get an idea of where they are heading now, instead of risking it in the draft. Problem is that plenty of other teams are looking at any surplus talls as well and we have to present as a better option and a better run club.

Whatever we do, we need strong talls that can kick that will straighten us up and stand a decent chance in contested situations and we need to be able to cover them if they go down. Even if they all work and we have a surplus, they are gold on the trade table.
Why is it fair to say that we could get another Lucas?

We took Yarran after overlooking Davis, Schoenmakers, Lynch and Brown. Plus Menzel and Cripps with McCarthy and Jaksch available. Same old argument that completely ignores what you get from mids and flankers. Yarran, Hartlett and Hill are better than Watts. Talia hasn't been the best player by a long stretch. Port and Carlton liked Butcher after letting Fyfe slip through their hands with at least two picks.

The recruiter cares at this point given his head is the one that will be on the block. Mick will let the baker bake the bread. I posted four years ago that all the backslappers would be out in force if we went tall in the 2010 draft. Yet the Hughes bashers just pull out the names of Fraser McInnnes or whoever because they're tall.

Rogers could find a player with the want and leadership you see in a Fyfe, Selwood, Pendlebury or Dangerfield. There's no guarantee that you can find class mids late like Essendon fans keep arguing. Kavanagh, Colyer, Jetta and Zaharakis haven't become elite. Even the likes of Murphy, Dangerfield, Hodge, Bartel, Watson, Goddard, Pendlebury, Thomas, Swan and Ablett took their time to become superstars and AA players. Judd is the exception to the rule.

Gleeson is responsible for this terrible excuse for "journalism"...

Power forwards in great demand:Michael Gleeson
Lynch was a known quantity in 2010, favoured to go early in the draft, so it is not rewriting history to wonder how he was not chosen sooner.

All of the players - Andrew Gaff, Jared Polec, Reece Conca and Dyson Heppell - taken in that draft ahead of Lynch by clubs other than the Suns are solid players. But they are not key forwards.

Conca is a good player but Richmond’s need is in the position Lynch plays, not where Conca bustles about. Richmond might have been a little shy in using a top-10 draft pick on another tall forward when Tyson Vickery remained (then and now) an unfulfilled talent.
Power forwards in great demand:Michael Gleeson

Weasel words given Vickery, Butcher and Ayce Cordy were rated like Tom Lynch.

Is Henderson better than Dangerfield?

I guess the knee jerk response is that the first team would be closer to a flag...

B: Docherty Jamison Davis
HB: Tuohy Talia Buckley
C: Gibbs Robinson Thomas
HF: Garlett Jaksch Everitt
F: Armfield McCarthy Darling
R: Kreuzer Curnow Murphy

I/C: Graham Warnock Henderson Bell

B: Docherty Jamison Yarran
HB: Tuohy Rowe Buckley
C: Gibbs Fyfe Thomas
HF: Menzel Henderson Everitt
F: Fasolo Casboult Robinson
R: Kreuzer Curnow Murphy

I/C: Graham Robinson Warnock I.Smith

Great list management also involves finding the class and leadership you find in the likes of Boak, Murphy, Gibbs, Menzel, Wines, Wingard, Selwood, Fyfe, Yarran, etc. Only have to look at WC who couldn't knock us off with Kennedy, Mackenzie, Darling, Glass and Brown in their 22.
 

blueboy25

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lol thats way unders.

Would be 1st round at least, id say 3-5 probably a bit over only cause hes still young. Pick 6-8 about right
It's a starting point and it also depends on GWS's needs. Could they do with a small forward that averages 40 goals a year and would be at the feet of Patton, Boyd and Cameron. I understand he is having a down year this year.
 

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Doesn't sound like that to me... :oops:

Comparing their stats (not the be all end all, I know) but their output is extremely similar at the same age.
And there was another post where I said all my suggestions were in an ideal world & that Gaff would cost more than we'd be willing to give. Good selective quoting. You should work for the HS.
 

etsal1

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I think Gaff's major issue is that he can't break a tag.

I don't think he would be tagged @ Carlton. He was very promising in his early years when he wasn't tagged. But given the Eagles poor midfield (especially outside runners) he is tagged every week. There are a number if players that will be tagged @ Carlton before Gaff.

But I wouldn't want him for a high draft pick.

Lucas would be the ideal swap but I can see the Eagles wanting more.
That's what I was thinking.

It would help a lot if Gaff picked us and not just said he wants to go home.

Only in my fantasy land could we get Gaff for Lucas.
mickelboy182 conveniently found only a couple of posts above your selected ones......
 
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Why is it fair to say that we could get another Lucas?

We took Yarran after overlooking Davis, Schoenmakers, Lynch and Brown. Plus Menzel and Cripps with McCarthy and Jaksch available. Same old argument that completely ignores what you get from mids and flankers. Yarran, Hartlett and Hill are better than Watts. Talia hasn't been the best player by a long stretch. Port and Carlton liked Butcher after letting Fyfe slip through their hands with at least two picks.

The recruiter cares at this point given his head is the one that will be on the block. Mick will let the baker bake the bread. I posted four years ago that all the backslappers would be out in force if we went tall in the 2010 draft. Yet the Hughes bashers just pull out the names of Fraser McInnnes or whoever because they're tall.

Rogers could find a player with the want and leadership you see in a Fyfe, Selwood, Pendlebury or Dangerfield. There's no guarantee that you can find class mids late like Essendon fans keep arguing. Kavanagh, Colyer, Jetta and Zaharakis haven't become elite. Even the likes of Murphy, Dangerfield, Hodge, Bartel, Watson, Goddard, Pendlebury, Thomas, Swan and Ablett took their time to become superstars and AA players. Judd is the exception to the rule.

Gleeson is responsible for this terrible excuse for "journalism"...

Power forwards in great demand:Michael Gleeson

Power forwards in great demand:Michael Gleeson

Weasel words given Vickery, Butcher and Ayce Cordy were rated like Tom Lynch.

Is Henderson better than Dangerfield?

I guess the knee jerk response is that the first team would be closer to a flag...

B: Docherty Jamison Davis
HB: Tuohy Talia Buckley
C: Gibbs Robinson Thomas
HF: Garlett Jaksch Everitt
F: Armfield McCarthy Darling
R: Kreuzer Curnow Murphy

I/C: Graham Warnock Henderson Bell

B: Docherty Jamison Yarran
HB: Tuohy Rowe Buckley
C: Gibbs Fyfe Thomas
HF: Menzel Henderson Everitt
F: Fasolo Casboult Robinson
R: Kreuzer Curnow Murphy

I/C: Graham Robinson Warnock I.Smith

Great list management also involves finding the class and leadership you find in the likes of Boak, Murphy, Gibbs, Menzel, Wines, Wingard, Selwood, Fyfe, Yarran, etc. Only have to look at WC who couldn't knock us off with Kennedy, Mackenzie, Darling, Glass and Brown in their 22.
Where do I start with this. A lot in there designed to have a go at 'all the backslappers' but I refuse to be categorised through your response. Same with the naming of 'could have been' teams. Save the cynicism please.

At the end of the day, I support what the club does. I have neither the knowledge or the expertise to challenge them. I also don't favour hindsight selections. However, to my knowledge the draft has not happened yet and until it does, we are all free to speculate and express our desires. I'd say we could all look through our histories and found support for the selection of players that have not made it so nobody holds the prevailing opinion sceptre here.

My only issue and I have been consistent on this for a few years now, is that we lack tall depth and we often play a tall too few, and it has burned us on several occasions when injury strikes. You don't play 'tweeners who can play tall as starting talls. These guys should be the +1 in a side ... in case.

I also appreciate that no talls were leaping out of us last year with Boyd, daylight, more daylight, a raw McCarthy, daylight, then the rest. Cripps offered something we did not have and we needed. A tall extractor, knew how to get the ball, could gets his hands free and distribute to advantage. No issue there at all. We got our tall with an early third rounder and a back up ruck as a rookie. Probably the best we could do under the circumstances.

When we took Yarran, we had just missed on Hurley. Not sure whether we were looking that way or not, but I wasn't completely sold on him either. Yarran offered something we did not have a lot of either. Run and carry combined with blinding speed and x factor. There were no talls left around that mark. We didn't reach for one and that is fine.

I like Lucas and I think he has attributes to make it and is unfairly maligned at times. The reference to him is only that he did not have any stand out qualities we were lacking. He's not slow but not a jet, he's not inside, he's not overly strong. He does know where to run and has a tank. The fact that there were talls rated in his areas of the draft is the only reason I mention him. Even then, I supported the decision the club made. If they went small instead of tall again, it could work out but I'm not sure it addresses our list balance.

I'm not suggesting we reach here either. If the early rounds of the draft are as strong for talls as touted, it seems an ideal time to get one all things being equal. Waite is on the way out, Casboult is on the verge but could still fall either way. We are fortunate that Rowe is holding his own this year but is that form set in stone? We planned for the loss of Judd with Cripps. Surely we should look at planning for the loss of Waite, and be looking to top up our KPP stocks to the level of other teams.

If it doesn't work out, that tall is still going to hold more value at trade time than a mid that isn't working out.
 
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This debate could have been avoided if we had of only drafted Mitch Thorp last year :rolleyes:
Apples and oranges. Thorp merely represented an opportunity to add a KPP to our list which was already threadbare. His name could have been Balki for all it mattered.

I just work off a basic formula. 4 KPPs per side, 1 ruckman, 1 back up ruck who can fill a spot in a pocket when not rotating on or off the bench. That's 6 talls in a team of 22. For my money that represents 12 talls in a squad of 44. You ideally want 6 quality talls with the others experienced stop gappers or developing youngsters.

This year we had Kreuzer, Warnock, Jamison, Henderson, Waite ... all who can be considered quality (in varying degrees)
We also had Watson, Rowe, Giles, Wood, Casboult.

That's 10 of the 12 we need, and only 5 of the 6 quality talls we need and some would argue with the term quality in some cases.

Waite is almost gone. I feel we need 2 more quality talls and 1 more developing tall. Casboult could become a quality tall but we'd still need one more and then 2 more developing/stop gap talls.

We were very lucky this year that Rowe has been reinvented rather than playing the Casboult forward/second ruck role or we'd be in a deeper hole.

It's also important for our reserves to have a decent tall structure for the development of those guys as well. Some might point to White or McInnes but they are pinch hitters as KPPs. Ideally you'd have one in a back pocket next to the fullback, a proper CHB and 3 medium/small defenders in support.
 
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Ahh yes trade value. I would happily put our 1st pick up for Shiel provided we got a later pick back.

Very talented mid, would add explosiveness in the post-Judd world
Shiel and Jaksch and their second for a first round pick, our second round pick and Garlett (and/or Watson).
 
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