The timing of Season 7 doesn’t work

[BarbieITFC]

I’ve been a die hard AFLW since Season 1 - probably been to more AFLW games in the last five years than men’s games. We live close to Freo Oval and my 12 year old daughter loves it.

But yesterday I didn’t even remember that Freo had their AFLW game in the morning. And even last week with the Men’s game having a bye I didn’t really engage with the AFLW season starting.

Maybe it’s different for fans of teams not in finals but right now I can’t see I’ll really engage that much in the AFLW H&A season until after September.

Which is a damn shame all round.

So here’s my solution:

• Don’t stagger the men’s bye. Give all teams a week off after Round 11.
• Launch AFLW Round 1 during that week off and then run it in parallel with the second half of the mens season
• include some double ups (3-4 games) during the year where the same teams play each other in AFL and AFLW back to back.
• In the pre-final bye in the mens comp have week 1 of AFLW finals and the AFLW grand final the same weekend as the mens prelims

That might all sound counter intuitive given the issue of not engaging with AFLW now - but I think it’s because it’s early rounds of H&A for woman’s up against the mens finals that’s the issue. Putting the two H&A seasons together and the finals at the same time will mean more fans can find the time to get invested.

Just a thought - but I’m just really frustrated that AFLW is being squeezed out by the finals and I want to see it succeed.

 

[petits]

I would think they would rather have more attention on the end of the women's season than the start, for a few reasons. Usually the teams settle in and the games get better in quality over the course of AFLW seasons (especially with expansion teams) (also you know better what to expect from each game once the ladder becomes more settled), plus potential for bigger crowds for finals which will now have no overlap at all. It's frustrating this year because the season is so short that the men's is overlapping with quite a lot of it, but I'd prefer to see them increase the season length and keep trying this timing for at least next season.

 

[craffles]

I’ve been a die hard AFLW since Season 1 - probably been to more AFLW games in the last five years than men’s games. We live close to Freo Oval and my 12 year old daughter loves it.

But yesterday I didn’t even remember that Freo had their AFLW game in the morning. And even last week with the Men’s game having a bye I didn’t really engage with the AFLW season starting.

Maybe it’s different for fans of teams not in finals but right now I can’t see I’ll really engage that much in the AFLW H&A season until after September.

Which is a damn shame all round.

So here’s my solution:

• Don’t stagger the men’s bye. Give all teams a week off after Round 11.
• Launch AFLW Round 1 during that week off and then run it in parallel with the second half of the mens season
• include some double ups (3-4 games) during the year where the same teams play each other in AFL and AFLW back to back.
• In the pre-final bye in the mens comp have week 1 of AFLW finals and the AFLW grand final the same weekend as the mens prelims

That might all sound counter intuitive given the issue of not engaging with AFLW now - but I think it’s because it’s early rounds of H&A for woman’s up against the mens finals that’s the issue. Putting the two H&A seasons together and the finals at the same time will mean more fans can find the time to get invested.

Just a thought - but I’m just really frustrated that AFLW is being squeezed out by the finals and I want to see it succeed.

I love this suggestion and think if the AFL were serious about driving inclusivity the women would have a crack at the big stage in September. I don't see it happening though as they are too commercial and want AFL on the calendar all year round

 

[BallaratBulldog]

That is more of a you problem that you didn't even know your own team is playing or engage with it tbh.

I would understand more if it was run at same time as a finals match of yours or a team you wanted to watch, but the early afternoon is fine on that Saturday.

 

[troybe]

Just download the AFLW app it’s got all the info you need on it. I can’t count the amount of times I’ve looked at it to see what games are where and what games I’m attending. I agree next years season should start about Round 11-12 of the AFLM, ramp up to 17 rounds so each team plays each other once, stagger bye weeks when mens finals are on especially the first week. The AFLW should finish mid to late November.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Hmm keep moving it around... that should help people keep track of it?

It doesn't seem crazy for the AFL to think there might be something in having heaps of AFLW games on at the height of "footy fever" (i.e. men's grand final eve/day). Likewise having the AFLW finals played in a rather dead patch of the sporting calendar.

So rather than judging it after two weeks, maybe we should wait and see how the whole season plays out (or god forbid multiple seasons, lest supporters get accustomed).

And the season length being extended is inevitable, which guarantees greater overlap with the men's H&A (they aren't going to push the AFLW grand final any later than it is now). That will eventually result in the first 6 weeks of the AFLW season being played entirely as curtain-raisers to the men, because the TV broadcasters are not going to set up at 18 different venues each weekend.

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

Couldn't disagree more with the OP. The bye week is the perfect time. No men's footy, the seasons of 10 teams are over so their supporters still have a competition to follow if they wish, weather's better... I hope it stays like this forever. Yes, it might get a bit overshadowed during the finals but on the plus side there's less AFLM being played so it's easier to schedule.

 

[____]

The August start is the worst idea the AFL has ever come up with. And that's before mentioning the absolute idiocy of having two full seasons in one calendar year and hence the absolute farce of awarding two premierships in one year, which compromises the legitimacy of this season's and last season's premierships. As a Lions fan I'm glad we won our first women's premiership last year when it was an uncompromised premiership.

When the season started in February people were actually hungry for the footy to be back on, now people are footy fatigued. I will concede that starting in the start of January was a bit too early.

Round 1 2021 (late January), the season opener between Carlton and Collingwood at Princes Park, on a Thursday night, $10 tickets, with a COVID capped crowd, got over 6000 in January. I'm pretty sure from memory it was a COVID capacity sell-out.

Round 1 Season 7 (late August), the season opener between the same two teams, at the same venue, at the same timeslot, with the same ticket prices, WITHOUT a COVID capped crowd didn't even get a crowd of 4000 people.

The February (or even late January) start was better because supporters of all 18 teams are hungry at that time of the year for the footy to be back on, Carlton and Collingwood fans would be more likely to go to the AFLW season opener because their team is in it, neutral fans that live nearby would be keen to go because tickets would only be $10 and it's the first opportunity to watch some live footy in a long while, and the fact that a Thursday night in January or February in Melbourne is a nice time to be outdoors. In late August this year, the Carlton fans would have been in mourning that their men's team missed the finals after losing to their biggest rival by one point after being in the lead for almost all the second half and being in the eight all season. The Collingwood fans would be thinking about their upcoming qualifying final against Geelong and any neutrals would have had a lot of live footy to attend for the several months prior to that. Not to mention being outdoors in a suburban ground on a midweek winters night in Melbourne is s**t.

As a Lions supporter who has been to all three of our women's Grand Finals, travelled interstate for regular season games and even willingly this year missed out on a men's home game to watch the women's prelim because it was the first ever AFLW match at the MCG, I didn't make the roadtrip up to Canberra or down to Casey to watch the women's team so far this season (I currently live in the Northern suburbs of Melbourne), I didn't go to the Canberra game because I flew up for the men's final against Richmond and I didn't go down to Casey because I was in footy mourning after our men's team got destroyed in the prelim. If both of those games were in February or March I definitely would have been at those games, even if Casey is a pain to get to and even if fuel is expensive.

Another stupid thing about the August start is the finals of the women's comp will be in the midst of the cricket season, meaning grounds like the Gabba, MCG, Adelaide Oval and the SCG cannot be used. If the Crows or Power earn the right to host the Grand Final this season, where will you host it? Would you force the Lions to play at Carrara again since the Gabba can't be used? Not to mention the original argument is for the change was to get the women out of the heat and less injuries, when November and December is one of the hottest time of the year anyway and there are still a lot of injuries happening anyway. Adelaide Oval got a crowd of over 25000, with a COVID cap, for the Grand Final in 2021. The Gabba would definitely sell out if it hosted a women's Grand Final (remember Brisbane is a notorious bandwagon city). The August start means you can't get proper big crowds in the business end of the season in several states.

A February to June season, with the finals worked around the men's bye rounds would have been perfect. If the AFL really wanted a later season maybe June to October would be better, the season would start when people don't have footy fatigue and won't be overshadowed by men's finals and there's a fighting chance that the women's finals can still be played at the bigger grounds with the bigger crowds as international cricket generally isn't played in October in Australia.

The August start is the worst AFL idea in history, the season starts when everyone is thinking about the men's finals, and once that's done people have footy fatigue. Once the women's finals start almost all the big grounds won't be available due to cricket.

 

[Teen Wolf]

And that's before mentioning the absolute idiocy of having two full seasons in one calendar year and hence the absolute farce of awarding two premierships in one year, which compromises the legitimacy of this season's and last season's premierships.

Ok so suddenly Adelaide weren't the best team last season?

Round 1 2021 (late January), the season opener between Carlton and Collingwood at Princes Park, on a Thursday night, $10 tickets, with a COVID capped crowd, got over 6000 in January. I'm pretty sure from memory it was a COVID capacity sell-out.

Round 1 Season 7 (late August), the season opener between the same two teams, at the same venue, at the same timeslot, with the same ticket prices, WITHOUT a COVID capped crowd didn't even get a crowd of 4000 people.

Couldn't possibly have anything to do with Carlton supporters being salty about losing all their best players. The fact you don't even mention that Geelong's R1 crowd (same venue, bigger opposition but worse timeslot) this season was greater than in 2021 is rather telling.

Regardless, I'm going to blow your mind: the move was not about short-term attendance figures. There are a range of long-term factors behind the decision. And despite your claim, there is no "perfect" solution--any time of the year has pros and cons--and it's totally naive to claim otherwise.

Another stupid thing about the August start is the finals of the women's comp will be in the midst of the cricket season, meaning grounds like the Gabba, MCG, Adelaide Oval and the SCG cannot be used. If the Crows or Power earn the right to host the Grand Final this season, where will you host it? Would you force the Lions to play at Carrara again since the Gabba can't be used? Not to mention the original argument is for the change was to get the women out of the heat and less injuries, when November and December is one of the hottest time of the year anyway and there are still a lot of injuries happening anyway. Adelaide Oval got a crowd of over 25000, with a COVID cap, for the Grand Final in 2021. The Gabba would definitely sell out if it hosted a women's Grand Final (remember Brisbane is a notorious bandwagon city). The August start means you can't get proper big crowds in the business end of the season in several states.

Sorry but the Gabba had its chance, and blew it. And I don't just mean the 2017 farce. 4k to the 2021 PF, lowest-ever crowd for an AFLW prelim.

Adelaide had its chance to prove the 2019 crowd wasn't just a one-off freak event, and blew it. 22,934 and 16,712 were the crowds for the last two AO grand finals, with dirt cheap ticket prices. Great turnouts, but a lot of empty seats nonetheless.

Where will QLD/SA grand finals be held now? At venues that aren't half-full. Some people might miss out on getting tickets, but it won't be paid-up members.

Btw there are 9 games scheduled for November and 0 for December. A little different to playing 70% of the season in January and February.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I’ve been a die hard AFLW since Season 1 - probably been to more AFLW games in the last five years than men’s games. We live close to Freo Oval and my 12 year old daughter loves it.

But yesterday I didn’t even remember that Freo had their AFLW game in the morning. And even last week with the Men’s game having a bye I didn’t really engage with the AFLW season starting.

Maybe it’s different for fans of teams not in finals but right now I can’t see I’ll really engage that much in the AFLW H&A season until after September.

Which is a damn shame all round.

So here’s my solution:

• Don’t stagger the men’s bye. Give all teams a week off after Round 11.
• Launch AFLW Round 1 during that week off and then run it in parallel with the second half of the mens season
• include some double ups (3-4 games) during the year where the same teams play each other in AFL and AFLW back to back.
• In the pre-final bye in the mens comp have week 1 of AFLW finals and the AFLW grand final the same weekend as the mens prelims

That might all sound counter intuitive given the issue of not engaging with AFLW now - but I think it’s because it’s early rounds of H&A for woman’s up against the mens finals that’s the issue. Putting the two H&A seasons together and the finals at the same time will mean more fans can find the time to get invested.

Just a thought - but I’m just really frustrated that AFLW is being squeezed out by the finals and I want to see it succeed.

That could be the strategy moving forward in 2023 (they needed time off after the early season in 2022)

 

[cmndstab]

Adelaide had its chance to prove the 2019 crowd wasn't just a one-off freak event, and blew it. 22,934 and 16,712 were the crowds for the last two AO grand finals, with dirt cheap ticket prices. Great turnouts, but a lot of empty seats nonetheless.

Bit harsh to refer to the three highest turnouts of any AFLW finals ever as "blowing it". 53000 was never going to be sustainable, even the men's comp doesn't draw those numbers. Particularly in the era of Covid, any crowd in the vicinity of 20000 more than justifies the use of Adelaide Oval. The AFL would clearly be happy to use it again if it was available.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Bit harsh to refer to the three highest turnouts of any AFLW finals ever as "blowing it". 53000 was never going to be sustainable, even the men's comp doesn't draw those numbers. Particularly in the era of Covid, any crowd in the vicinity of 20000 more than justifies the use of Adelaide Oval. The AFL would clearly be happy to use it again if it was available.

They did use it again, and got 20,000 people to attend a H&A match. Hmm, a bigger crowd than the last grand final...

 

[Sky]

Should be somewhere between October to March since it’s when the NTFL plays.

 

[cmndstab]

They did use it again, and got 20,000 people to attend a H&A match. Hmm, a bigger crowd than the last grand final...

Yes, the first ever AFLW Showdown. The city of Adelaide once again proved that they can put serious numbers into Adelaide Oval for a marquee AFLW match. The highest crowd figure of any match this season.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Yes, the first ever AFLW Showdown. The city of Adelaide once again proved that they can put serious numbers into Adelaide Oval for a marquee AFLW match. The highest crowd figure of any match this season.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here.

Did you happen to notice the thread is about the change in timing of the season?

If the AFL didn't make the change, guess what, no big crowd for the Showdown at Adelaide Oval.

 

[cmndstab]

Did you happen to notice the thread is about the change in timing of the season?

If the AFL didn't make the change, guess what, no big crowd for the Showdown at Adelaide Oval.

Why not? They could definitely have found a week in March or February to schedule it then.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the new timing. Just bemused that you think the Crows "blew it" despite consistently drawing the biggest crowds AFLW finals have ever seen, just because one of those crowds was even bigger again.

 

[Lore]

It's interesting to read this back a month later

I think there's a few things going on with the timing.

1. I doubt the AFL intended to spotlight the H&A season when they put it in August. They've timed it perfectly for the finals to come up for oxygen between the men's trade period and the men's draft, with the women's grand final falling on the weekend prior to the men's draft. Perhaps it would work better if the season was longer and got some clear air through November and the beginning of December, but it doesn't help the H&A much.
   
   
2. Footy fatigue. I certainly feel it. I almost feel like AFLW snuck up on me, despite preparing for it (as a mod) for over a year. But I also think footy fatigue is at least partially manufactured, in the sense that the AFL and the media that surrounds the AFL deliberately build everything up to the men's grand final and then the pressure is off, they're acting like footy is over, and the entire circus winds up and turns to cricket. For example, Kath Loughnan was boundary riding for the international T20 last night – I mean it's what she's paid to do so nothing against her personally but yeah.
   
   
3. The end of the men's season is more intense than the start of the season. The race for finals is all consuming for those who have teams participating or hoping to do so, while an increasing number of teams have their fans focused on the draft and trade period from mid-July onwards (noticeable as a trade board mod). The AFL's media cohort trying to cover both aspects at once means that the airwaves and the back page are full to choking with men's footy.
   
   
4. Summer is for summer sport. The broader culture in Australia is conditioned to the cricket/footy binary. Cricket pitches being dropped into football fields across the country the day after the men's grand final with an even 6 month split. Local cricket kicks off, there's more sunshine, daylight savings starts, people take annual leave and spend more time outdoors. They're not standing around the water cooler or the playground comparing their footy teams. The lifestyle is more relaxed, suited to a five day test match in the background at a barbecue rather than 2-3 hours glued to a TV. Once people start going back to work after the new year, people are more primed for footy, which is why it sort of worked in that slot, but:
   
   
5. Footy is a winter sport. There should be less injuries, and the grounds should be available instead of being set up for cricket. But given the issues with overlapping the end of the men's season, I think it would be better to overlap the start and middle of the men's season instead. As a club board mod who does a lot with the women's footy, there was a much stronger following for our VFLW team in March-July than for our AFLW team August-October. Part of that is on-field success, but I think a bigger part of it is down to the timing as well, with the mens team not doing anything more notable than playing a game each weekend (and none of the mens teams do any more than that at that time of year, short of sacking their coach).

In light of that, it would make sense to have the women's season in winter, but coinciding with the start of the men's season, rather than the end of it. That means the women's grand final in the round 23 bye at the latest, which should theoretically have decent weather to encourage attendance. It could even be a Saturday in September, if the men's season was pushed back by a week (or had an extra bye or a magic round immediately before round 1 or something).

17 H&A + 4 weeks of finals should be 21 weeks of actual footy, so you could theoretically start the women's season in Round 4 of the men's season and finish it four weeks earlier, but starting it the same week as (or a week or two before) the mens comp would probably be optimal.

To make it really complicated, if the mens went to a 17-5 they could have their bye a couple of weeks earlier before playing off for finals positions or draft picks or whatever, which would be a good spot for the women's grand final, and then get rid of the Round 23 bye that is semi-hated anyway.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Why not? They could definitely have found a week in March or February to schedule it then.

In a world where AO is available in Feb for the Showdown, so too AO is available in Nov for the Grand Final.

Yes they could have the Showdown in mid-late March at AO, which doesn't solve the problem of when and where to have the GF (unless the AFL is happy to have it clash with, and thus overshadowed by, the men's season... which they aren't).

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the new timing. Just bemused that you think the Crows "blew it" despite consistently drawing the biggest crowds AFLW finals have ever seen, just because one of those crowds was even bigger again.

The fact that 16k and 23k are big crowds by AFLW standard is precisely the point.

Do they justify the use of 50k stadiums? Sure, probably, maybe. Do they prove a demand for the use of 50k stadiums? No, that opportunity was given and subsequently blown.

 

[Lore]

In a world where AO is available in Feb for the Showdown, so too AO is available in Nov for the Grand Final.

Yes they could have the Showdown in mid-late March at AO, which doesn't solve the problem of when and where to have the GF (unless the AFL is happy to have it clash with, and thus overshadowed by, the men's season... which they aren't).


The fact that 16k and 23k are big crowds by AFLW standard is precisely the point.

Do they justify the use of 50k stadiums? Sure, probably, maybe. Do they prove a demand for the use of 50k stadiums? No, that opportunity was given and subsequently blown.

Which stadiums are available that hold more than 10k but less than 50k?

Carrara has 22,500 according to ausstadiums and Kardinia Park has 40k but currently around 22k due to works.

The rest seem to max out at 10-12k due to removal of the old grandstands.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Which stadiums are available that hold more than 10k but less than 50k?

Carrara has 22,500 according to ausstadiums and Kardinia Park has 40k but currently around 22k due to works.

The rest seem to max out at 10-12k due to removal of the old grandstands.

Sounds like tickets for future grand finals could sell out pretty fast then, and maybe for more than $10.

But for the record: The Legends Stand alone at Carlton holds 10-12k, wouldn't trust any source claiming that number to be the capacity of the entire venue. Fremantle Oval will fit over 16,000 people post-redevelopment. And the capacity of Adelaide's new ground is definitely going to be 20k... if having 20k (rather than 12k) attend the GF is so important (which it isn't imo, but we'll see).

 

[timokane]

In Sept and October its a case of never again seams like the afl was after some quick cash hence they rushed it back in.
Next aflw to be played in late feb/march and the grand final to be played as a curtain raiser to the first game of round 1 of the afl season at the mcg.

 

[The Nostradamus]

In Sept and October its a case of never again seams like the afl was after some quick cash hence they rushed it back in.
Next aflw to be played in late feb/march and the grand final to be played as a curtain raiser to the first game of round 1 of the afl season at the mcg.

Is this confirmed?

Seems odd starting the next season so soon again after back to back seasons

Would expect a longer gap this time

 

[Biggie]

Is this confirmed?

Seems odd starting the next season so soon again after back to back seasons

Would expect a longer gap this time

Yes theres a longer gap this time. The season will align much like S7

 

[Crankyhawk]

It's interesting to read this back a month later

I think there's a few things going on with the timing.

1. I doubt the AFL intended to spotlight the H&A season when they put it in August. They've timed it perfectly for the finals to come up for oxygen between the men's trade period and the men's draft, with the women's grand final falling on the weekend prior to the men's draft. Perhaps it would work better if the season was longer and got some clear air through November and the beginning of December, but it doesn't help the H&A much.
   
   
2. Footy fatigue. I certainly feel it. I almost feel like AFLW snuck up on me, despite preparing for it (as a mod) for over a year. But I also think footy fatigue is at least partially manufactured, in the sense that the AFL and the media that surrounds the AFL deliberately build everything up to the men's grand final and then the pressure is off, they're acting like footy is over, and the entire circus winds up and turns to cricket. For example, Kath Loughnan was boundary riding for the international T20 last night – I mean it's what she's paid to do so nothing against her personally but yeah.
   
   
3. The end of the men's season is more intense than the start of the season. The race for finals is all consuming for those who have teams participating or hoping to do so, while an increasing number of teams have their fans focused on the draft and trade period from mid-July onwards (noticeable as a trade board mod). The AFL's media cohort trying to cover both aspects at once means that the airwaves and the back page are full to choking with men's footy.
   
   
4. Summer is for summer sport. The broader culture in Australia is conditioned to the cricket/footy binary. Cricket pitches being dropped into football fields across the country the day after the men's grand final with an even 6 month split. Local cricket kicks off, there's more sunshine, daylight savings starts, people take annual leave and spend more time outdoors. They're not standing around the water cooler or the playground comparing their footy teams. The lifestyle is more relaxed, suited to a five day test match in the background at a barbecue rather than 2-3 hours glued to a TV. Once people start going back to work after the new year, people are more primed for footy, which is why it sort of worked in that slot, but:
   
   
5. Footy is a winter sport. There should be less injuries, and the grounds should be available instead of being set up for cricket. But given the issues with overlapping the end of the men's season, I think it would be better to overlap the start and middle of the men's season instead. As a club board mod who does a lot with the women's footy, there was a much stronger following for our VFLW team in March-July than for our AFLW team August-October. Part of that is on-field success, but I think a bigger part of it is down to the timing as well, with the mens team not doing anything more notable than playing a game each weekend (and none of the mens teams do any more than that at that time of year, short of sacking their coach).

In light of that, it would make sense to have the women's season in winter, but coinciding with the start of the men's season, rather than the end of it. That means the women's grand final in the round 23 bye at the latest, which should theoretically have decent weather to encourage attendance. It could even be a Saturday in September, if the men's season was pushed back by a week (or had an extra bye or a magic round immediately before round 1 or something).

17 H&A + 4 weeks of finals should be 21 weeks of actual footy, so you could theoretically start the women's season in Round 4 of the men's season and finish it four weeks earlier, but starting it the same week as (or a week or two before) the mens comp would probably be optimal.

To make it really complicated, if the mens went to a 17-5 they could have their bye a couple of weeks earlier before playing off for finals positions or draft picks or whatever, which would be a good spot for the women's grand final, and then get rid of the Round 23 bye that is semi-hated anyway.

Could this current season be a transition towards the type of fixture you describe for season 8? Make aflw fully winter sport, maybe some double headers (curtain raisers)

 

[Lore]

Could this current season be a transition towards the type of fixture you describe for season 8? Make aflw fully winter sport, maybe some double headers (curtain raisers)

I think so.

The last we heard was there will be an overage draft in Feb or early March, which if you add a 4 month preseason you’d be looking at an early July season start.