The Toon Army thread

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tribey

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Three bairns are having a kickabout in the park when a freak thunderstorm appears overhead and produces a bolt of lightning that flattens them all. When they awake they are at the pearly gates with St. Peter looking flustered.

"What's wrong?" says one of the urchins.

"Look," says St. Peter, "there's been a terrible mistake."

"What do you mean?" they ask in unison.

"You were taken before your time. Turns out the lightning wasn't going to kill you, just singe your eyebrows. As you love football so much I've been ordered to reincarnate you with the privilege of becoming an England player... just take a running jump off that cloud shouting what you wish to be reborn as and thy will be done".

The first kid takes the leap of faith shouting "great centre forward!", he is Alan Shearer.

The second kid takes the leap of faith shouting "midfield general!", he is Rob Lee.

As the third kid breaks into a sprint he trips over his feet and plummets back to Earth cursing "stupid f#cking c#nt!". He is Kevin Phillips.
 

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tige19

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Scocking defensive performace, looked tottaly lost at the back. Viduka was suberb, his first touch is great. Alan Smith a Joey Barton were a joke they play a very similiur game, the both of them cant be on the same teams sheet, Beye was excellent our best player along with Viduka. Why SA keeps playing Martins wide is beyond me, as soon as he goes to the central strikers position he looks like he will score every time the balls falls for him.

Crap performance.
 

tribey

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Yep. With the exception of the second half of the Arsenal game when we bossed them and deserved all three points, last night's game was no different to the Birmingham and Fulham wins - except we didn't get the rub of the green enough to steal maximum points again.

Once again, shambolic defending, no style of play, just hoof'n'hope.

What exactly is stopping us from passing it to the midfielders, who then approach the box with passing/dribbling and attempt to pass/cross it to the strikers? It's not as if the lads we have behind Viduka and Martins don't know how to play.

Just rubbish.
 

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Well, in my honest opinion I think we played better against Derby yesterday than we did against Birmingham and Fulham, which isn't exactly hard, but I think Derby deserve credit for the way they played.

They played better than Birmingham, and unlike them, after taking the lead they didn't sit back.

They played better than Fulham, because they believed they could win the match, and didn't just go out there to not lose.

Another early goal at SJP:

v Portsmouth - Noe Pamorot 8' L1-4
v Liverpool - Steven Gerrard 27' L0-3
v Arsenal - Emmanuel Adebayor 4' D1-1
v Birmingham - Cameron Jerome 8' W2-1
v Derby - Giles Barnes 6' D2-2

4 out of our last 5 home games, we've conceded in the first 10 minutes.

Also, another interesting stat - Out of the 28 goals we've conceded, 9 have been from outside the 18 yard box, with only 2 having been headers.

However, lets look at some positives:

- Damien Duff came back, and looked very good.
- We're unbeaten in 4

Next match against Wigan (a), must win game to keep touch, although we haven't won on boxing day since 1999 so thats probably a hard ask.

Our main problem is having Butt and Barton in the same midfield against sides that we should be beating. Its all well and good playing them both against sides above us that should beat us so to speak, but they are both defensive players, and in recent weeks we have improved greatly after Emre has come on off the bench.

Next 4 matches against Wigan (a), Chelsea (a), Man City (h) and Man Utd (a).

We've got to be looking at a minimum of 6 points from those 4 games.

Individual performances yesterday - I think Shay Given has lost a bit in the sticks to be honest. Not the keeper he once was. Cacapa was our best defender again I thought. I'm going off Rozehnal. Milner didn't have the best of games, Martins got a bit of stick from the crowd (and rightly so) for his work ethic. Viduka was great. Smith was slightly under par. Butt was good again.
 

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Yep. With the exception of the second half of the Arsenal game when we bossed them and deserved all three points, last night's game was no different to the Birmingham and Fulham wins - except we didn't get the rub of the green enough to steal maximum points again.

Once again, shambolic defending, no style of play, just hoof'n'hope.

What exactly is stopping us from passing it to the midfielders, who then approach the box with passing/dribbling and attempt to pass/cross it to the strikers? It's not as if the lads we have behind Viduka and Martins don't know how to play.

Just rubbish.
Well, its all well and good crossing it into the box, but we never have anyone in there.

Duff broke down the left a few times, looking to cross the ball in, and he had one man to aim for, whilst Derby had 6 or 7 defenders back.

Even when the bottom side broke against us, they got players into the box.

We don't get enough bodies into the box, and that is our main problem.
 

tige19

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Our main problem is having Butt and Barton in the same midfield against sides that we should be beating. Its all well and good playing them both against sides above us that should beat us so to speak, but they are both defensive players, and in recent weeks we have improved greatly after Emre has come on off the bench.
I find that funny, Barton considers him self an attacking midfielder who can score 7-8 PL goals a season, he is far from it the guy does alot of nothing on the pitch, we already have Butt,Smith and Geremi who do that for us.

We need to play Emre every game with either Barton or Butt supporting him, just play the ball through Emre everytime we go forward at least with Emre he can give some nice balls to either Duff or Milner or the guys up front.

Just a question for you lads, is it just me or is Zoggy looking like Fernando Alonso stuck in a Datsun?? the guy going forward is almost unbeatable he rarely gets beaten by a defender 1on1.

At this stage what is everyones opinion of Enrique?? apparantley had a shocker in the reserves the other day and his enthusiasm for the place is shot, was a very expensive purchase and has massive wraps in Spain but as we have seen many times before these Spanish masters turn into chicken feed in the EPL.

Wigan this week is a draw at best, it will either be 1-0 Wigan or 0-0 with SA playing 5 midfielders and 2 protecting the back 4. Yay yay cant wait for the game, another spectacle to entice more people to get behind the club :thumbsu:.
 

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I find that funny, Barton considers him self an attacking midfielder who can score 7-8 PL goals a season, he is far from it the guy does alot of nothing on the pitch, we already have Butt,Smith and Geremi who do that for us.
Barton is capable of that, but he needs to be the focal point of everything and the team suffers as a result. If his ego could stand it he would be the ideal defensive midfielder (as you've suggested). Break up the play, lay it off to someone person that can actually pass to a teammate. But if he is your go to guy, you're always going to struggle to win a lot of games.
 

tige19

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Wigan this week is a draw at best, it will either be 1-0 Wigan or 0-0 with SA playing 5 midfielders and 2 protecting the back 4. Yay yay cant wait for the game, another spectacle to entice more people to get behind the club :thumbsu:.
If I dont say so my self, not a bad call.... if a run of the mill fan can pick exactly how we are gonna play imagine how easy it is for the proffesionals to pick apart our game.

Quite pathetic.
 

tige19

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Cracking signing, we get a guy who scored once every 2.3 games in South Korea which means we get a guy who can put the ball in the back of the net once every 8 games in the PL. I would understand it if he where like 17 or 18 but the guy is 27, surely we can do better.
 

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Theres an article in 'The Mag', here are the important paragraphs:

Here's a thought; the season before last, on the final day, Tottenham Hotspur were one win away from finishing fourht in the table, jostling arch-rivals Arsenal into fifth and getting their snouts into the Champions League trough.
The year before, Everton did manage to elbow their own nemesis Liverpool aside and, by rights, should have relegated them to the UEFA Cup competition, instead of ballsing up their qualifier, like we did, and ended up undoing all of their hard work. Liverpool were disgracefully allowed into the Champions League by a back door and the top four has been sewn up ever since.

As one of only a few clubs who are capable of crashing that party, we have to decide pretty quickly what it is we want for this great club of ours. Do we want to be a Tottenham or an Everton? I know that's like being asked if you'd prefer a kick in the balls or a jab in the eye, but lets face it, we haven't got the option of playing attractive, attacking football like Arsenal or Manchester United. Our current choice is to either hark back to the Keegan years, or accept playing for percentages.

Ruud Gullit was in the papers recently, saying that Fabio Capello was all 'about winning.' His are defensive, organised, well-drilled teams that grind out results and win titles. It isn't always pretty and Real Madrid famously sacked him after he won them their first Primera Liga title in four years. Mourinho suffered the same fate at Chelsea. Houllier at Liverpool is another whose team played some pretty pedestrian football but won loads of trophies.

These are all managers who play percentage football and focus on the result above all, but the don't get derided in the press for this, in fact, the hype machine is in full swing for Capello.

Much as I hate to admit it, we have a fair bit in common with Spurs. We're a club that tends to think of ourselves as a club that is bigger than the others see us. We seem to be hung-up on some myth of playing attractive football. Starved of success for years we have ridiculously high expectations and start throwing toys out of our pram when things don't go our way. We jettison managers in a cack-handed manner which sets us even further back. We lack stability and consistency. Oh yeah, and we can't defend if our lives depended on it.

The last trophy Tottenham won (League Cup) was won when they were being managed by a much despised, defense minded, long ball merchant by the name of George Graham. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Everton, on the other hand, are benefitting from having had the same manager for five years, working with a supportive board, very little pressure and having a team rather than an expensive collection of individuals. Their style is functional, but they can be a match for anybody on their day. Moyes has been able to build himself a decent team over time, and they can realistically challenge for a top six finish which is more than we can say at the moment.

What we supporters have to decide is what we want to see; exciting football that gets us patronising plaudits amidst 4-3 defeats or grinding out 1-0 wins and taking the three points every time. Until we sort this out we're going to remain a divided fan base and we'll become the Spurs of the North East.
 

tige19

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Theres an article in 'The Mag', here are the important paragraphs:

Here's a thought; the season before last, on the final day, Tottenham Hotspur were one win away from finishing fourht in the table, jostling arch-rivals Arsenal into fifth and getting their snouts into the Champions League trough.
The year before, Everton did manage to elbow their own nemesis Liverpool aside and, by rights, should have relegated them to the UEFA Cup competition, instead of ballsing up their qualifier, like we did, and ended up undoing all of their hard work. Liverpool were disgracefully allowed into the Champions League by a back door and the top four has been sewn up ever since.

As one of only a few clubs who are capable of crashing that party, we have to decide pretty quickly what it is we want for this great club of ours. Do we want to be a Tottenham or an Everton? I know that's like being asked if you'd prefer a kick in the balls or a jab in the eye, but lets face it, we haven't got the option of playing attractive, attacking football like Arsenal or Manchester United. Our current choice is to either hark back to the Keegan years, or accept playing for percentages.

Ruud Gullit was in the papers recently, saying that Fabio Capello was all 'about winning.' His are defensive, organised, well-drilled teams that grind out results and win titles. It isn't always pretty and Real Madrid famously sacked him after he won them their first Primera Liga title in four years. Mourinho suffered the same fate at Chelsea. Houllier at Liverpool is another whose team played some pretty pedestrian football but won loads of trophies.

These are all managers who play percentage football and focus on the result above all, but the don't get derided in the press for this, in fact, the hype machine is in full swing for Capello.

Much as I hate to admit it, we have a fair bit in common with Spurs. We're a club that tends to think of ourselves as a club that is bigger than the others see us. We seem to be hung-up on some myth of playing attractive football. Starved of success for years we have ridiculously high expectations and start throwing toys out of our pram when things don't go our way. We jettison managers in a cack-handed manner which sets us even further back. We lack stability and consistency. Oh yeah, and we can't defend if our lives depended on it.

The last trophy Tottenham won (League Cup) was won when they were being managed by a much despised, defense minded, long ball merchant by the name of George Graham. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Everton, on the other hand, are benefitting from having had the same manager for five years, working with a supportive board, very little pressure and having a team rather than an expensive collection of individuals. Their style is functional, but they can be a match for anybody on their day. Moyes has been able to build himself a decent team over time, and they can realistically challenge for a top six finish which is more than we can say at the moment.

What we supporters have to decide is what we want to see; exciting football that gets us patronising plaudits amidst 4-3 defeats or grinding out 1-0 wins and taking the three points every time. Until we sort this out we're going to remain a divided fan base and we'll become the Spurs of the North East.
All well and good mate but a few things.

* We dont Capello we have Allardyce, much difference?
* We dont grind out 1-0 wins we have 1 shot in 90 mins against a CC defence
* Houllier should never be brought into discussion
* We do the same thing over and over again regarding bad signings (Barton springs to mind after recent events)

I dunno, I am just sick of losing.
 

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Me too, but I think I have come to terms with the fact that we are only a mid-table side at the moment, and as disappointing as that is, it's probably true.

Let's get one thing straight, I am far from Sam Allardyces biggest fan, I think the style that we've been playing, and the way we've been playing is disgraceful.

BUT - He is in charge of our club, and talk of sacking him after just 19 games in charge is absurd.

He needs time to show what he can do.

This season we have 9 new faces, whilst 11 have gone out the door. The new team isn't going to gel all of a sudden.

We've also had changes to our owners and chairman, which in the long term is only good for the club.

All of these things will see the club become a force again, but it takes time. At the moment, as frustrating as it is, we just have to remain patient and have faith.
 

tribey

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He needs time to show what he can do.
And that's what the problem is for mine.

As I just posted in the other thread, Allardyce's best is playing a horrific style with a rag-tag team of bargain basement journeymen and jagging 7th-10th place.

Well...

To date we've seen the bargain basement signings - journeymen one and all.

We're already beginning to see the implementation of the horrific style, aimless punts up field against the likes of Derby, Birmingham and Wigan.

Phase three of the Allardyce plan is to now start seeing the jammy Bolton wins roll in. Almost flawless performances against Birmingham, Fulham and Arsenal in that regard. 'Unlucky' not to have broken Paul Jewell's heart against Derby... but you just know he thinks we're almost about to turn that corner.

It just isn't good enough.

Spurs went out and poached Juande Ramos - whose best is seriously challenging Real and Barca and winning UEFA Cups.
Man City hired Svennis, a man with a superb record at club level.
Villa hired Martin O'Neill - who I personally have no time for - but a man who has had marked success with Leicester and Celtic.

Put simply, we hired a comparative f#cking idiot.
 

tribey

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Much better performance tonight - and funnily enough we actually looked the equal, if not superior of Chelsea when we got the ball forward in wide positions to Milner, Duff and N'Zogbia. Rocket surgery. It really is.

Was disappointed Sam wasn't more proactive at around the 65-70 minute mark when we were really threatening - ie, bringing Viduka on to support Martins, replacing Smith/Faye with Emre, etc.

We really really could've had them at that point, but we fizzled by not freshening up the midfield at the crucial moment like they did by subbing Ballack and Cole.

Seeing Rozehnal come on for anyone but the visibly spent Faye personally infuriated me, at a time when we were on the cusp of ruining their shit.
 

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I actually thought the Rozehnal for Duff switch was good.

Duff is clearly not 100% match fit, and Sam obviously reacted to SWP beating N'Zogbia all the time by bringing on a more defensively sound Rozehnal to left back.

Must win game on Wednesday if we are to have any shot at Europe this year. A performance like the one today is exactly what I want to see.

It's my last match until I return back to Adelaide as well, so I'm hoping to end it with a bang.
 

tribey

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I actually thought the Rozehnal for Duff switch was good.

Duff is clearly not 100% match fit, and Sam obviously reacted to SWP beating N'Zogbia all the time by bringing on a more defensively sound Rozehnal to left back.
It was Rozy for Smith. The Czechmate went to LB which allowed Zog to move up to wideleft with Duff in a central freerole from what I could see on teevee.

Duff then came off for Viduka after the horse had bolted.

Just saw on the nufc.co.uk ticker that Zog got booked for dissent after the fulltime whistle too. So that's a point gone and 2 bookings thanks to the peanut with the flag.

Must win game on Wednesday if we are to have any shot at Europe this year. A performance like the one today is exactly what I want to see.

It's my last match until I return back to Adelaide as well, so I'm hoping to end it with a bang.
Hopefully the players aren't too gutted/up all night baking Joey a cake with a file in it to give us what we want.
 

ShearMagic9

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It was Rozy for Smith. The Czechmate went to LB which allowed Zog to move up to wideleft with Duff in a central freerole from what I could see on teevee.

Duff then came off for Viduka after the horse had bolted.

Just saw on the nufc.co.uk ticker that Zog got booked for dissent after the fulltime whistle too. So that's a point gone and 2 bookings thanks to the peanut with the flag.



Hopefully the players aren't too gutted/up all night baking Joey a cake with a file in it to give us what we want.
Ah, Rozy for Smith. I didn't see the game as it wasn't on TV here in the UK.

Yeah Zog got booked for dissent, as did Butt, who is now only 1 yellow away from a 2 match suspension.
 

tige19

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I didnt see the game but by the sounds of it the lads played much better and had a crack which is all we can ask for, however looking at the team sheets the Chelsea they put out was there 2nd string side bar 4, it was 100% a game we should have and needed to get a result from. The loss will do nothing for SA, massive game against Everton coming up, they got open up big time agains Arsenal so it might be a good time to catch them.
 

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(insert odd looking person) scores more than Alan Smith.

He's a joke.

I can't stand him.

Nothing against the guy and although he's probably a wanker, I'm in no position to assume that. Nevertheless, I am not a fan.

Has he scored yet?

Has he done anything except run around yet?

Has Fantastic Crows found out his home address yet?
 

ShearMagic9

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I didnt see the game but by the sounds of it the lads played much better and had a crack which is all we can ask for, however looking at the team sheets the Chelsea they put out was there 2nd string side bar 4, it was 100% a game we should have and needed to get a result from. The loss will do nothing for SA, massive game against Everton coming up, they got open up big time agains Arsenal so it might be a good time to catch them.
Might have been their second string, but it was still very strong.

And we're playing Man City on Wednesday, not Everton.
 
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