The Toon Army thread

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tribey

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Current table

11. Newcastle P22...... 26
12. Tottenham P22..... 24
13. Reading P22......... 22
14. Boro P22............... 21
15. Bolton P21............ 20
16. Birmingham P22...... 20
17. Wigan P22............. 20

18. mackems P21......... 17
19. Fulham P22............ 15
20. Derby P22.............. 7

Remaining fixtures:

Bolton (h) win? 29 pts
Arsenal (a) loss 29 pts
Boro (h) win? 32 pts
Villa (a) loss 32 pts
Man U (h) loss 32 pts
Blackburn (h) loss 32 pts
Liverpool (a) loss 32 pts
Birmingham (a) draw 33 pts
Fulham (h) win? 36 pts
Spurs (a) loss 36 pts
Reading (h) win? 39 pts
Pompey (a) loss 39 pts
mackems (h) win? 42 pts
West Ham (a) loss 42 pts
Chelsea (h) loss 42 pts
Everton (a) loss 42 pts

Is 42 points going to be enough this year?

Even if we win the ones we're expected to, we probably still need to nick some unlikely points from somewhere (ie Villa Park, Goodison or Fratton) to be truly safe - and god help us if we contrive to lose to either Fulham, Boro or Sunderland at home.

Those 5 points dropped to Derby... Unbelievable.
 

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What are people's views on Mark Hughes? Next in line in the betting (discounting the media's Shearer/Keegan dream team) - it's said he is an advocate of technical passing football (with some strong tackling) and his international, English and European experience has him well-rounded in his football philosophies. Apparently Gary Speed described as the best tactician he's played under, and he has that dressing room 'presence'. And he may be ambitious enough to take the job on - probably the most important criteria at the mo.

I really have no idea about him, just looking for some thoughts.
 

tribey

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What are people's views on Mark Hughes? Next in line in the betting (discounting the media's Shearer/Keegan dream team) - it's said he is an advocate of technical passing football (with some strong tackling) and his international, English and European experience has him well-rounded in his football philosophies. Apparently Gary Speed described as the best tactician he's played under, and he has that dressing room 'presence'. And he may be ambitious enough to take the job on - probably the most important criteria at the mo.

I really have no idea about him, just looking for some thoughts.
If, as is increasingly looking likely, we are limited to such a calibre of manager - ie, decent record with a solid reputation for getting smaller teams to punch above their weight - I'd take Hughes well ahead of the others on that tier, ie Redknapp, Coppell, McClaren, Jewell and of course, Allardyce.

If you look at his Blackburn teams the impressive thing about them is the almost perfect mixture of graft, pace, technique and flair. No-nonsense hard workers like Nelsen, Henchoz, Ooijer, Emerton and Warnock rub shoulders with audacious livewires such as Bentley, Santa Cruz, Tugay, MGP and Dunn - and on a comparative shoestring.

And that's the other impressive thing. Hughes' transfer acumen has proven to be topnotch to date. Whether buying English or abroad, his success rate of landing players who not only do a job but greatly add to the potency of the side is enormous - leaving us to look on jealously as Bentley, Benni, Santa Cruz and Nelsen have the type of impact that Geremi, Emre, Smith and Bramble could only dream of, and for a fraction of the cost.

Would he pull up stumps to join us? I don't think he would. While there is an upper limit on Blackburn's potential that he is already rapidly approaching, it'd take him at least 2-3 years to reach the same level of stability and cohesion at Newcastle - and where Bryan Robson and Steve Bruce have failed to impress as a potential successor to Fergie, Hughes is well on the way to putting himself in the frame when the time comes.

If he fails with us he loses that chance. If he succeeds with us we lose him.
 

ShearMagic9

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Notice how we couldn't so much as complete a pass in our final third tonight?

Sam's longball tactics have absolutely crippled every attacking instinct our players had - players looked surprised to have the ball played into their feet.

We are in big big trouble.
:rolleyes:

We sack him.... and it's still his fault.

Talk about a personal grudge.

We're now paying for some very poor decisions made over the years from the people in charge. Hard to have any sympathy with the club.

We deserve everything we get.

You've just got to laugh.

And 42 points will easily be enough, the sides at the bottom aren't going to pick up 25 points in their remaining fixtures (unfortunately).

The sooner we're relegated to the CCC the better, at least then the fans might actually realise we're not as good as they think we are.
 

apollo_creed

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:rolleyes:

We sack him.... and it's still his fault.

Talk about a personal grudge.

We're now paying for some very poor decisions made over the years from the people in charge. Hard to have any sympathy with the club.

We deserve everything we get.

You've just got to laugh.

And 42 points will easily be enough, the sides at the bottom aren't going to pick up 25 points in their remaining fixtures (unfortunately).

The sooner we're relegated to the CCC the better, at least then the fans might actually realise we're not as good as they think we are.
Who paid 6 mil for Alan Smith?

You can't expect to play football with guys like Smith in the team?

Who paid a similar amount for Enrique? who might not be terrible but never played, whilst one of your best attacking players was being played out of position. now he looks lost.

Who kept changing around and dropping central defenders when not necessary?
the balance became irreperable.

who had a grudge against Martins and a hard on for Owen?

who couldn't decide which keeper was better?

who bought Barton for 7 mil?

all these problems are Big Sam problems. he has gotten the club into this mess. he is resposible.

strip him of his underwear and make him stand in the middle of St.James park for a week.
 

ShearMagic9

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Barton was only 5.8 :p

And every manager has a hard-on for Owen (for some unknown reason, because he's garbage). Which means Martins gets shafted.

N'Zogbia looks lost? He was one of our better players last night, playing from midfield.

It's not only Sams mess.

It's a mess that was there before Sam got there.

It's a mess that is there after he is gone.

Our whole club is a mess.
 

apollo_creed

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well I only watched the first half.

I was referring to some of N'Zogbia's quite games previously played further up the field.
he's looked more dangerous and comfortable as a left back. which shouldn't be the case.
good to see he had the juice in the second half.

every manager has bad buys but as I said in the other thread. why try and buy some hard nosed, I'm a homie g English dudes for such prices. it's ridiculous and was always stupid.
 

ShearMagic9

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well I only watched the first half.

I was referring to some of N'Zogbia's quite games previously played further up the field.
he's looked more dangerous and comfortable as a left back. which shouldn't be the case.
good to see he had the juice in the second half.

every manager has bad buys but as I said in the other thread. why try and buy some hard nosed, I'm a homie g English dudes for such prices. it's ridiculous and was always stupid.
Hear what you're saying.

And the fact that Sam was going to spash out another 5m on Kevin Nolan probably saw the nail go into his coffin.

Geremi (even though he was free), Smith for 6m and Barton for 5.8m were pretty poor buys.

Enrique was 6.3m, but he looked very composed yesterday at left back. Only issue I have with him is that he tries to play his way out of trouble too often, instead of playing the percentages. Probably cost us the 2nd goal by passing the ball back to Given under pressure, rather than just clearing it. I think he'll be worth the money in the long run.

Beye for 2m and Faye for 2m have been superb though. Great value for money out of those two, and they'll be sorely missed while they're at the ACN.

Viduka has shown glimpes, on a free can't complain with him. Rozehnal still has the verdict out, but he was cheap so even if he turns out to be a failure he didn't cost a lot.

You just have to give Owen time and he'll score goals for you, just be patient??[/jod23]
:D
 

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For all the love Martins gets, you gotta admit his attitude blows. He doesnt look that interested anymore. Hes a loose cannon, bit like Drogba except it affects his game.

I said it once and ill say it again. The signings you made in the summer. Every single one of them sucks

P.S Beye was a free wasnt he FC. The only good signing you made
 

ShearMagic9

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For all the love Martins gets, you gotta admit his attitude blows. He doesnt look that interested anymore. Hes a loose cannon, bit like Drogba except it affects his game.

I said it once and ill say it again. The signings you made in the summer. Every single one of them sucks

P.S Beye was a free wasnt he FC. The only good signing you made
That's why I wouldn't be bothered if we sold Martins to be honest. As long as we got back what we paid for him.

I've gave my opinions on the signings above, so you can read them there.

Beye was 2m though, worth every penny.
 
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If, as is increasingly looking likely, we are limited to such a calibre of manager - ie, decent record with a solid reputation for getting smaller teams to punch above their weight - I'd take Hughes well ahead of the others on that tier, ie Redknapp, Coppell, McClaren, Jewell and of course, Allardyce.

If you look at his Blackburn teams the impressive thing about them is the almost perfect mixture of graft, pace, technique and flair. No-nonsense hard workers like Nelsen, Henchoz, Ooijer, Emerton and Warnock rub shoulders with audacious livewires such as Bentley, Santa Cruz, Tugay, MGP and Dunn - and on a comparative shoestring.

And that's the other impressive thing. Hughes' transfer acumen has proven to be topnotch to date. Whether buying English or abroad, his success rate of landing players who not only do a job but greatly add to the potency of the side is enormous - leaving us to look on jealously as Bentley, Benni, Santa Cruz and Nelsen have the type of impact that Geremi, Emre, Smith and Bramble could only dream of, and for a fraction of the cost.

Would he pull up stumps to join us? I don't think he would. While there is an upper limit on Blackburn's potential that he is already rapidly approaching, it'd take him at least 2-3 years to reach the same level of stability and cohesion at Newcastle - and where Bryan Robson and Steve Bruce have failed to impress as a potential successor to Fergie, Hughes is well on the way to putting himself in the frame when the time comes.

If he fails with us he loses that chance. If he succeeds with us we lose him.
Thanks for the summation dt. It's hard to get a perspective from the UK Newcastle bloggers as it seems the only choices are Mourinho, Lippi or global apocalypse (maybe Hitzfeld falls in between) ;).
 

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Sack the whole fuking club, send one of those Islamic suicide bombers in Mercedes to the team bus and blow the thing up, screw the whole lot of the worthless scum bags, start with Alan Smith.
 

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Sack the whole fuking club, send one of those Islamic suicide bombers in Mercedes to the team bus and blow the thing up, screw the whole lot of the worthless scum bags, start with Alan Smith.
Call me when your 19th coming of a 4-0 loss to the 18th placed team buddy. Harden up
 

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Sack the whole fuking club, send one of those Islamic suicide bombers in Mercedes to the team bus and blow the thing up, screw the whole lot of the worthless scum bags, start with Alan Smith.
I shouldn't laugh, it's wrong to laugh and you're wrong to say what you have but it's still funny.
 

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Release the lot of them...Geremi, Smith, Butt, Carr..get ridd of emm...i think thats what the Tottenham boss is doing now just making a better list with more depth and more talent...as the commentator said its not a lost cause but then again...
 

tribey

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:rolleyes:

We sack him.... and it's still his fault.

Talk about a personal grudge.
Wait, do you honestly think the players will be rid of the negative aspects of Sam's style and teachings in 3 or 4 days? Really? Not being silly, I honestly ask you - really?!

What I said was completely and utterly true, whether I think the Allardyce regime was pound for pound worse than Souness' or not.

I can only assume that Pearson told the boys to simply go and out play - and the result was at least an attempt to move the ball into the final third, rather than simply hoof it over Owen's head.

But our players, many of them big names who are absolutely synonymous with attacking football - Owen, Viduka, Duff, not to mention bright young wingers Milner and N'Zogbia - could not pass 5-10 yards to each other in the final third. Balls were played to the wrong side, Viduka, Owen and Milner in particular were trapping it like a balloon and none of them seemed to have any knowledge of each other's runs or individual preference for receiving the ball.

Forget not playing much together - the front 5/6 looked like they hadn't met each other til they turned up in the dressing room before the game.

They are simply not used to it - they're so accustomed to running down blind alleys and channels expecting to chase long balls they've lost their close control, touch and ability to make sharp runs to space. It's like muscle memory - we have the ball on the half way line, I'm going to turn and run. There's no initial creative thought to link up and forge openings.

There were no effective triangles whatsoever last night. None.

Whoever the new man is needs to reprogram the players. First and foremost, the midfielders have to stick together and play as a unit - and Owen, Martins and Viduka must relearn the art of forward movement. Last night Owen didn't bother to move along the line, he simply hung off the last defender expecting to chase punts. My dog can do that.

But to think Sam is suddenly absolved of any responsiblity for last night's disgraceful performance simply because he isn't there is ridiculous.

He's brought in a swathe of ordinary players (ironically the better ones are currently in Africa, no help there) and stamped out many of the instincts that made our good players what they are.
 

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WOW

We were just given a footballing lesson like no other.

Things aren't looking very good at the moment and dont rule us out of a relegation scrap, I'm serious, the footballing quaility has been extremely poor for a long time, we cant pass the ball to feet, and when the pressure is on we thump the ball long. This is gonna be a fight.

First thing we need is a world class Manager.

Jose Morinho, Guus Hiddink, Marcello Lippi.

No more short cuts, no more risky managers, just the best available.

Then we need to clear out some of the most expensive but worthless players in the League.

Michael Owen needs to be sold
Emre needs to be sold
Stephen Carr needs to be sold
Geremi needs to be sold
Alan Smith needs to be sold

Thats just the start. Then we need to invest heavily on world class players that want to be successful.


This is not gonna be easy. :(
 

ShearMagic9

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Wait, do you honestly think the players will be rid of the negative aspects of Sam's style and teachings in 3 or 4 days? Really? Not being silly, I honestly ask you - really?!
Course I don't.

But I'm sick to death of the managers being made scapegoats. We have players who play in the EPL. Regardless of the previous managers style, they should be able to pass the ball 5 yards to players in front of them.

Why do you think we're in our current predicament? It's because managers aren't given the time of day by the fans. Which results in them getting sacked after 8 months in charge and a completely different regime comes in.

That's the problem at the minute. The players have to adapt to a new manager/new regime every year/year and a half at best.

What I said was completely and utterly true, whether I think the Allardyce regime was pound for pound worse than Souness' or not.

I can only assume that Pearson told the boys to simply go and out play - and the result was at least an attempt to move the ball into the final third, rather than simply hoof it over Owen's head.
Yet we lost 6-0. Something that I guarantee wouldn't have happened if Sam was still in charge. Smith and Butt would've pretty much played as extra defenders and we probably would've limited it to 3 or 4.

But our players, many of them big names who are absolutely synonymous with attacking football - Owen, Viduka, Duff, not to mention bright young wingers Milner and N'Zogbia - could not pass 5-10 yards to each other in the final third. Balls were played to the wrong side, Viduka, Owen and Milner in particular were trapping it like a balloon and none of them seemed to have any knowledge of each other's runs or individual preference for receiving the ball.

Forget not playing much together - the front 5/6 looked like they hadn't met each other til they turned up in the dressing room before the game.
And wait, this is all Sams fault?

If players can't pass the ball it's not his problem.

Have you watched Bolton this season? They appear to be able to pass the ball to players 10 yards in front of them.

They are simply not used to it - they're so accustomed to running down blind alleys and channels expecting to chase long balls they've lost their close control, touch and ability to make sharp runs to space. It's like muscle memory - we have the ball on the half way line, I'm going to turn and run. There's no initial creative thought to link up and forge openings.

There were no effective triangles whatsoever last night. None.
There were some effective triangles. Not many but there were some. If you say there were none I suggest you go and watch the tripe we served up again. We passed the ball around well on some occasions, just had no end product.

Let me guess... it's all Sam Allardyces and Alan Smith's fault? Might as well be.

Why not make them the scapegoats eh?

Let's completely ignore the fact that our club has something wrong with them in the head. Constantly make wrong decisions. Appoint wrong managers. Turn good players into complete duds.

It's the club with the problem.
 

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Anyway, lets forget about Sam Allardyce, lets forget about Glenn Roeder, lets forget about Graeme Souness.

Lets focus on now and the future for this club.

Starting with the appointment of the next manager:

Current favourite - Mark Hughes: Has been at Blackburn since 2004. Blackburn is the first club he has managed, but has some experience at a higher level after managing Wales from 1999-2004. Has done very well at Blackburn since 2004, taking them to an FA Cup semi final in his first year in charge, followed by finishing in the top 6 and getting a UEFA Cup spot. Has done very well in the transfer market, signing players such as Benni McCarthy for 2m and Christopher Samba for 400k. Gets the best out of his players. I'd personally like to see him installed as the next boss of Newcastle United, which is an opinion shared by many supporters.

Other Candidates:

Alan Shearer: A bit early for him in my opinion. No doubt he was a fantastic player, one of the best, but this doesn't automatically transfer into being a great manager. One day he will be manager of Newcastle United, but it's a bit too soon at the moment. I wouldn't be against seeing him assisting whoever the new man in charge is to be. Would be a popular choice with the fans, and would get time to transform the club, something other managers don't get.

Martin Jol: I was against him as soon as his name came up, but looking into it further he wouldn't be such a bad choice. Enable Spurs to finish fifth in two consecutive seasons, albeit after spending lots of money. Doesn't have the 'big team' experience, which would be good, but has been at a club of a similar size in that of Tottenham. Had a decent record, with a 45% winning statistic. Whats more is I think he'd want the job, and we've tried British and failed. Maybe it's time to go foreign?

Kevin Keegan: Would like Alan Shearer, be a popular choice with the fans. But I think they'd expect it to go straight back to the wonder years if he came back, which would be extremely hard to achieve. Its now 2008, not 1996, and with this appointment I don't think the club would neccessarily be looking forward. He does have the experience though, and whilst I think there is better options out there, I wouldn't be fully against the appointment of Keegan.

Steve Coppell: Once again a manager that has punched above his weight at Reading. Has done very well there but there has been talk for quite some time that he isn't happy. Don't think he is different enough from Sam Allardyce, and whilst he'd be better than the aforementioned, I still wouldn't be happy with the appointment.

Others mentioned include: Gordon Strachan, Steve Bruce, Jose Mourinho, Didier Deschamps, Billy Davies, Gerard Houllier, Guus Hiddink, Steve McClaren and Terry Venables.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, who would you like to see as the next Newcastle manager?
 
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Kevin Keegan: Would like Alan Shearer, be a popular choice with the fans. But I think they'd expect it to go straight back to the wonder years if he came back, which would be extremely hard to achieve. Its now 2008, not 1996, and with this appointment I don't think the club would neccessarily be looking forward. He does have the experience though, and whilst I think there is better options out there, I wouldn't be fully against the appointment of Keegan.
Speaking as an outsider I don't see why you don't get Keegan back, with Shearer as his assistant (with the view to take over in time) and look to draft in Coach from another club that a) hasn't worked or played with Newcastle before and b) hasn't worked or played with Keegan or Shearer. This move adds a third person to the group who'll become the assistant to Shearer when he become manager and is a fresh mind within the Keegan/Shearer duo.

People say you shouldn't go back and normally they are right, but I doubt most Newcastle fans would expect Keegan to return them to the Top 2 within 12 months, so he'll be given time. Plus with him there to groom Shearer as well he'll be given even more time by the fans because there is a clear plan in place from the club to get the Toon Army back towards the Top of the Table and hopefully winning Cups.

Others mentioned include: Gordon Strachan, Steve Bruce, Jose Mourinho, Didier Deschamps, Billy Davies, Gerard Houllier, Guus Hiddink, Steve McClaren and Terry Venables.
How about John Collins ex-Hibs.

He doesn't stuffer fools, can manage on a shoestring budget and got his Hibs sides to play an attacking brand of football.
 

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Newcastle owner Mike Ashley has revealed he sacked Sam Allardyce because it was time "to run the club the way I wanted".

Harry Redknapp had been expected to succeed Allardyce at St James' Park but he opted to stay with Portsmouth and the Magpies' woes were compounded when they went down to a 6-0 defeat by Manchester United.

Allardyce was hired by previous owner Freddy Shepherd and Ashley has made it clear he wants to be in charge of a successful club playing attractive football.

Ashley told the News of the World: "I want a team that will go all out to try to give Chelsea a walloping, that will try to stuff Tottenham and that will be brave and bold enough to attack Manchester United.

"To date I have invested £250million to try and make it happen.

"And I'm not the only one who could see it wasn't working with things as they were.

"So when my chairman (Chris Mort) told me it was time for a change I knew it had to happen. I just knew it was time for me to get involved.

"So I did what I should have done in the first place and decided it was time to run the club the way I wanted."

He continued: "I must admit that when I bought this club my gut instinct was to bring in my own team to run it straight away, including a new manager.

"That's no reflection on Sam, that's just the way I have always done things.

"But for once in my life I ignored my intuition and, looking back, that was a mistake.

"Now is the time to put away my Newcastle shirt. I'm not saying I will never go back on the terraces but now I have to be in the boardroom - I have to be hands on."
Kevin Keegan is his man by the sounds of things.

We famously lost the title because of KK's reluctancy to play defensively and be happy with draws that would have got us there.

The papers today are talking about a Keegan - Shearer dream team.
 
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