The Transfers Thread

[ADL9798]

Some rumours over the weekend that liverpool are trying to sell Carroll back to us but won't accept anything less than 17m (half what they paid us for him) or for cash plus Ben Arfa.



I personally wouldn't mind having Carroll back as he would give us another option going forward but similar to liverpool, he may need to be content with playing as a impact sub (as I'm not too sure him and Cisse would gel). Our owners are very shrewd as well and almost certainly wouldn't accept such a price. I think 10m tops would be our limit.



With there being a lot of rumours we will try and get Pierre Emerick Aubameyang, I can't see our owners throwing up potentially $20m + for 2 strikers. We've also been linked to Wilfried Bony - at best we would get 1 'purple' (premium) striker and then maybe 1 young/back up striker.

Looking at Sam Allardyce's recent comments it seems he is desperate to keep Carroll at West Ham so there may be some competition which will work in our favour when it comes to his transfer fee, I wouldn't be surprised if Stoke had a look at him either, he would be ideal for Pulis' system. As for the asking price, although we are reportedly holding out for £17m I'd expect that we will accept around £15m or an exchange with Ben Arfa.

Carroll's value is really dependent on the type of football the buying club wants to play, if they're looking to pass it around on the floor then he's essentially worthless as we've discovered to our detriment, trying to shoehorn him into our system had disaster written all over it from day 1. Alternatively, if you have a team that looks to play a lot of aerial balls into the box I've no doubt he'll be very useful and will score a lot of goals as he did at Newcastle. He's shown on occasions that if he's on form and given the right service he can be unplayable and has the ability to tear games apart given the chance. Hopefully he can get over the injuries that have plagued his season and show a bit of that in the last few weeks of the season to get a few more clubs interested in his services.

Having said that, the Newcastle link confuses me as the players you've brought in since Carroll left would indicate that unlike West Ham or Stoke you're not looking to play a style of football that would be conducive to getting the best out of a player like Carroll. Maybe as you said Pardew is looking to bring him in as an impact player.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Looking at Sam Allardyce's recent comments it seems he is desperate to keep Carroll at West Ham so there may be some competition which will work in our favour when it comes to his transfer fee, I wouldn't be surprised if Stoke had a look at him either, he would be ideal for Pulis' system. As for the asking price, although we are reportedly holding out for £17m I'd expect that we will accept around £15m or an exchange with Ben Arfa.

Carroll's value is really dependent on the type of football the buying club wants to play, if they're looking to pass it around on the floor then he's essentially worthless as we've discovered to our detriment, trying to shoehorn him into our system had disaster written all over it from day 1. Alternatively, if you have a team that looks to play a lot of aerial balls into the box I've no doubt he'll be very useful and will score a lot of goals as he did at Newcastle. He's shown on occasions that if he's on form and given the right service he can be unplayable and has the ability to tear games apart given the chance. Hopefully he can get over the injuries that have plagued his season and show a bit of that in the last few weeks of the season to get a few more clubs interested in his services.

Having said that, the Newcastle link confuses me as the players you've brought in since Carroll left would indicate that unlike West Ham or Stoke you're not looking to play a style of football that would be conducive to getting the best out of a player like Carroll. Maybe as you said Pardew is looking to bring him in as an impact player.

If I'm not mistaken, West Ham have the option to make the loan permanent for an agreed fee of 17m as part of the loan arrangement? My room mate is a mad hammers fan and reckons Gold and Sullivan (co owners of the club) wouldn't pay $17m for Carroll - though they would be interested if the price was lower. They only have Maiga and Carlton Cole on the books as strikers (with Cole perhaps leaving in the summer). The rest of their strikers are loaned from other clubs (Chamakh, Paulista, Carroll) so they will probably buy at least 2 strikers in the off season.

Stoke would be ideal for Carroll given their preference to play direct football - when he is on, he's a massive threat. His work rate is also very good, often the first one back helping the defence at corners and when trying to hold a lead.

Carroll wouldn't really fit into our preferred style under Pardew but he would be a great option to have on the bench if we needed to try something different. Carroll is a local boy and has been seen in Newcastle many times so probably would be open to coming back. Not sure what his wages at Liverpool are like (80k maybe?) but he'd need to take a wage cut to come back as we have a strict wage budget.

 

[WCErevival]

yeah reading have signed carrico from sporting cp for something like 600k. ridiculous bargain. having seen some of carrico a couple of years back he was hyped as a major talent. captain of sporting, reading have done themselves some very good business and done exactly what they need. top effort on whoever negotiated that deal.

Does anyone know what happened to this guy? Played one game straight away then disappeared off the face of the earth. Club never mentions him.

 

[Latro]

True - though Arsenal seem very keen on Jovetic (who also seems eager) - incidentally from Fiorentina. Assuming Jovetic joins Arsenal, would Arsenal still pursue Aubameyang? He would have to contend with Giroud, Walcott, Gervinho (heard he may be sold to Turkey) and Jovetic for a start.

Fiorentina (if they lost Jovetic) would then need a striker so might be a big player for him (many clubs will be interested in him). He played for Milan before he moved to Ligue 1 and only had a handful of games (not sure how he felt playing in Italy - if he enjoyed his time there, that would be a big bonus to Fiorentina's hopes of securing him). They are currently sitting 4th, 6 points off Milan in third who have the last CL qualification spot so seemingly won't be able to offer him CL football next season.

Should he want to try English football, I would like to think we would be one of the more attractive clubs he could join given he would almost certainly be a regular starter for us and our large contingent of French speaking players and former Ligue 1 players. Will be an interesting story over summer.

The only forward he would be behind at Arsenal is Walcott. I have never play though.

I think he would choose Arsenal over Newcastle as Wengers reputation is still very high with players.

 

[Magma]

benat's agent has said he will move in the summer.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

The only forward he would be behind at Arsenal is Walcott. I have never play though.

I think he would choose Arsenal over Newcastle as Wengers reputation is still very high with players.

With you guys seemingly on track to get CL qualification, it would be a massive boost to your chances of landing him. Giroud has done quite well in his debut season and should be better next season and despite what some might think, Wenger/Arsenal are still very good at developing young players.

We are still in with a shot of making it to the semi finals of the Europa but need to peg a 2-0 deficit against Benfica at home which will be tough but not impossible. We will only be able to offer european football next season if we win the EL which is a long stretch. If QPR go down, I don't think we will go back in for Remy after his snub. The main points of appeal to Aubameyang to come to us in the summer would be almost guaranteed first team football every week, the strong presence of French and French speaking connections in the current squad which might help him settle abroad and our growing reputation and profile in France.

I would still expect the better wages, more prestige and CL football on offer at Arsenal would be more appealing to him than ourselves but then again we've managed to secure some coups from France recently so stranger things have happened.

 

[ADL9798]

Versatile 24 year old Ajax and Belgium defender Toby Alderweireld was questioned about interest in him from Liverpool the other day and he responded "Liverpool is a club that meets my criteria" according to The Times and De Telegraaf. Would be a very good pickup in my opinion. I've watched a few of Ajax's games this season and he looks very comfortable with the ball at his feet and has great defensive positioning, he can also play anywhere across the back 4 if required.

With Carragher retiring we'll need to add at least 1 CB to the squad, with Martin Kelly also expected to step back into his natural position to provide cover (I'd expect Coates to go out on loan as he is in desperate need of playing time). Other names we've been linked with to fill this gap are Stefan De Vriij, Dejan Lovren, Dede and Ashley Williams although my personal preference would be for Alderweireld. He's out of contract at the end of next season and given the similarities between our playing style and Ajax's I'm sure he'd have no trouble fitting in.

 

[Stratton_Gun]

VDS to come out of retirement for Ajax

Rafa to replace Mourinho!!

 

[typeclub]

Yeah apparently Real Madrid are offering Mourinho + Ronaldo for Rafa.

 

[FISTO]

Liverpool are kidding themselves if they think Carroll is worth 17 mil.

He wasn't even worth that when they spent 35.

 

[Cruyff14]

Yeah apparently Real Madrid are offering Mourinho + Ronaldo for Rafa.

How does Hernandez fit into this?

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Liverpool are kidding themselves if they think Carroll is worth 17 mil.

He wasn't even worth that when they spent 35.

I remember at the time, most of us newcastle fans were up in arms that our local boy wearing the famous number 9 would be sold. It wasn't the price but moreso the fact we were sitting relatively comfortably in mid table following our promotion and decided to sell our only decent striker with 24 hours left in the transfer window.

In hindsight, the money was fantastic for our club as it allowed us to bring in quite a few handy players which later helped us finish 5th last season.

The thing with Carroll is he is still young (24) and English - English players always command an inflated premium (especially since PL rules mean you need to have at least 8 home grown players in your playing list). When he is motivated and playing in a suitable system, he is a great center forward - especially if playing as a lone man. Not sure Liverpool will get the 17m they want but as he is under contract for another 2 years, they aren't under huge pressure to cut their losses just yet. Will be an interesting story over the summer.

 

[ADL9798]

I remember at the time, most of us newcastle fans were up in arms that our local boy wearing the famous number 9 would be sold. It wasn't the price but moreso the fact we were sitting relatively comfortably in mid table following our promotion and decided to sell our only decent striker with 24 hours left in the transfer window.

In hindsight, the money was fantastic for our club as it allowed us to bring in quite a few handy players which later helped us finish 5th last season.

In hindsight, I wish you'd kept him!

The thing with Carroll is he is still young (24) and English - English players always command an inflated premium (especially since PL rules mean you need to have at least 8 home grown players in your playing list). When he is motivated and playing in a suitable system, he is a great center forward - especially if playing as a lone man. Not sure Liverpool will get the 17m they want but as he is under contract for another 2 years, they aren't under huge pressure to cut their losses just yet. Will be an interesting story over the summer.

You're right and on the back of those home grown rules we've seen inflated transfer fees paid for nearly every single current or future England international (with any decent amount of time left on their contract) bought over the last few years (Carroll obviously the most inflated of the lot!). It's become the norm so while he isn't worth £17m to us and probably not to any of the top sides given his inability to play in a fluid passing system, I don't think it would be a huge surprise to see him go for £15-17m if there was enough competition for his signature which there looks to be given the verbal confirmation from Pardew and Sullivan for Newcastle and West Ham respectively. He's very difficult to judge because he really isn't a skillful footballer in the classic sense, but he has attributes that can make him a very effective footballer if he is played in the right system with the right group of players.

Here's a list of the fees paid for English players that I can think of:

Carroll - £35m
Rooney - £27m (18 years old)
Ferdinand - £27m
Milner - £26m
Lescott - £22m
Wright-Phillips - £21m
Downing - £20m
Carrick - £19m
Young - £17m
Jones - £17m
Hargreaves - £17m
Henderson - £16m
Zaha - £15m
Rodwell - £15m
Sturridge - £12m (1 year remaining on his contract)
Smalling - £10m
Oxlade-Chamberlain - £10m (17 years old)
Walcott - £9m (17 years old)
Powell - £6m (18 years old)

90-95% of those I'd say were probably over the odds or very risky purchases. I think we just have to accept that this is the way the market for English players works, and there will always been an inflation of the price to some degree.

 

[Magma]

side note

we didnt pay 26 mil for milner. 18 mil + ireland who was valued at 8 mil. and we've only paid 12 mil for rodders so far.

semantics and stuff

 

[Cruyff14]

Rooney showed the talent and it's paid off. Bargain really.
Ferdinand was among the best defenders in the world when he was purchased and still young, fee is fair enough.
Milner I think went for too much, but he is a solid player IMO. Around 18m I think would be fair value.
Lescott lol
SWP, overpaid
Dowining, double lol
Carrick's fee is fair IMO
Young maybe a little too exp
Jones well too much
Henderson again too much
Rodwell overpriced.
Sturridge is a good fee IMO
Ox you're paying for potential and what S'hampton miss out on. Same with Theo. Probably too much for their ages though.
Powell is too early to judge. 6m isn't bad anyway.

 

[Magma]

there's also don andres barry iniesta coming in at a cool 12 mil.

reckon we got a bargain out of that based on his last 2 seasons especially.

 

[ADL9798]

side note

we didnt pay 26 mil for milner. 18 mil + ireland who was valued at 8 mil. and we've only paid 12 mil for rodders so far.

semantics and stuff

Yeah I know, but you still gave them an asset (Ireland) valued at £8m so it was easier just to say £26m.

Either way when you compare his fee and the others I've listed with those paid for non-English players, it's pretty clear there's a premium attached no matter how inexperienced or talented the player is.

 

[ADL9798]

Cruyff14 agree with most of that but:

- £27m for a defender (Ferdinand) is a hell of lot no matter how talented they are. Thiago Silva's the only defender I can think of that went for more and that comes with the caveat that he was bought by an extremely wealthy club (PSG) almost 10 years later so you can take off inflation.
- Regarding Rooney, in hindsight it has obviously paid off but £27m for an 18 year old was still a big risk at the time

 

[Cruyff14]

Doesn't matter, you can't get the best for cheap. Defenders and keepers are often overlooked in everything, awards, greats etc etc. Nesta went for 25m the same year. Thuram for 35m the year before.

And they were both better than Rio. Price is fair IMO.

 

[Shoei]

Arsenal also paid 8 million for the English wonderkid Francis Jeffers in 2001

 

[ADL9798]

Doesn't matter, you can't get the best for cheap. Defenders and keepers are often overlooked in everything, awards, greats etc etc. Nesta went for 25m the same year. Thuram for 35m the year before.

And they were both better than Rio. Price is fair IMO.

Yes but I think the difference between a £10-15m defender and a £30m defender is probably less than the difference between a £10-15m striker and a £30m striker. That's why I'd look at Rio's fee and say that's a lot of money even though he has turned out to be a brilliant footballer.

 

[Cruyff14]

Yes but I think the difference between a £10-15m defender and a £30m defender is probably less than the difference between a £10-15m striker and a £30m striker. That's why I'd look at Rio's fee and say that's a lot of money even though he has turned out to be a brilliant footballer.

Because strikers get all the plaudits.

 

[moomba]

Phil Neville will be leaving Everton at the end of the season according to the Sky ticker.

 

[moomba]

If we can get Rodwells body right his fee could be a bargain.

It's a big if, but his game against Chelsea was a sign of what he could do for us. And despite a few mistakes early in the piece he's looked comfortable for us whenever he's played.

 

[Stratton_Gun]

Phil Neville will be leaving Everton at the end of the season according to the Sky ticker.

According to Everton fans he's been done for a few years