Opinion The Trump Presidency

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Forzaport said:
Australia also doesn't have an illegal immigration problem on the same scale as the USA. You're also ignoring the symbolism which will serve to discourage illegal immigrants and drug trafficking.
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You said drugs was one of the reasons they built the wall. That's what my argument was mentioning australia. We don't share a border and get drugs here easily. No reason to think building a wall (fence lol) stops drugs getting in (also as a pointed out drugs are not the reason they are building it anyway)

Forzaport said:
If 2 border walls/fences are built for the same reasons why is one xenophobic but the other not?
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You are trying to fix the argument by stating in the question they were built for the same reasons.

Trump promised to build a wall not because it was the right thing to do , but because it was the popular thing to do. It's a promise that earned him the votes of many Americans and it was predicated on the xenophobic reasons I've already been through.

How is that different to Mexico building a partial fence on a South American border that is used by cartels to smuggle weapons in? Did the Mexican president use it as a ploy to gain votes from xenophobic conservatives so he could rise to power?

As much as you wanna stand by trump and whatever you think he will achieve you can't ignore the link between conservatives and xenophobia and pandering to that group. Go ask anyone why gay people can't marry in America , and who fought against equal rights for people of different race. A large section of xenophobic conservatives. Trump rose to power exactly because he promised what these people wanted to hear. To deny any different would be as obviously wrong as pretending the moon doesn't exist. the wall (fence) is being built to please a bunch xenophobes. The only purpose it will ever serve is getting trump elected and that will be about it.
 
With that argument, it's going to be 8 years of Trump and you'll still be wrongly blaming xenophobia. Wake up.
 
Forzaport said:
With that argument, it's going to be 8 years of Trump and you'll still be wrongly blaming xenophobia. Wake up.
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I've said the reason he is building a wall is because of xenophobia. It's not the only thing in his campaign. I'm not sure how you can debate it. In fact you still haven't manage to present me with any argument why that is incorrect. Only a trump supporter can use 8 years of trump as a threat. It's like you revel in his shitness.
 

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Out of everything you could criticise Trump for, cracking down on illegal immigration/drug trafficking really shouldn't be one of them. Enforcing the laws of your country and protecting its borders is well within the rights of any government. In fact, it's not just a right, it's a downright responsibility they have to their people. It's not xenophobic. It's the law.
 
TeeKray said:
Out of everything you could criticise Trump for, cracking down on illegal immigration/drug trafficking really shouldn't be one of them. Enforcing the laws of your country and protecting its borders is well within the rights of any government. In fact, it's not just a right, it's a downright responsibility they have to their people. It's not xenophobic. It's the law.
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So building a 2000mile long wall (fence) solves both those problems and trump isn't open to criticism? Also I cant point out that he got voted in by appealing to a sector of America because what now?
 
philthy05 said:
So building a 2000mile long wall (fence) solves both those problems and trump isn't open to criticism?
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Well, I'm not silly enough to believe the wall or fence is going to completely solve all of the problems it sets out to address, but it's probably not going to make things worse.

philthy05 said:
Also I cant point out that he got voted in by appealing to a sector of America because what now?
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Here's the problem. You're trivialising real issues that affect real people and lumping them all in under the banner of 'xenophobia'. No doubt there is a redneck element to Trump's support base but the majority of them simply want to see something done about illegal immigration and all of the problems it creates. Are we xenophobes here in Australia for stopping boats carrying illegal immigrants from entering our country?
 
philthy05 said:
I've said the reason he is building a wall is because of xenophobia. It's not the only thing in his campaign. I'm not sure how you can debate it. In fact you still haven't manage to present me with any argument why that is incorrect. Only a trump supporter can use 8 years of trump as a threat. It's like you revel in his shitness.
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Oh but I have, you just ignored it all.

8 years of Trump isn't a threat, it's your reality if you believe the wall is going up because of xenophobia. How could anyone who voted for Trump ever vote democrat if they're xenophobic? Democrats need to claw back 36 electoral college votes, possibly more. It won't happen if you label Trump voters as deplorables.

You seem to be more upset that Trump is proving to be an effective leader and are hoping he fails to sooth your ego. If this is true, you'll find yourself constantly frustrated at Trump. The thing is though, Trump's modus operandi involves failure in the form of A/B testing. He will fail and then he will succeed. Getting Healthcare through the House is one example, "Cryin' Chuck Schumer" is another.
 
TeeKray said:
Well, I'm not silly enough to believe the wall or fence is going to completely solve all of the problems it sets out to address, but it's probably not going to make things worse.



Here's the problem. You're trivialising real issues that affect real people and lumping them all in under the banner of 'xenophobia'. No doubt there is a redneck element to Trump's support base but the majority of them simply want to see something done about illegal immigration and all of the problems it creates. Are we xenophobes here in Australia for stopping boats carrying illegal immigrants from entering our country?
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How have i trivialised it?

How am I lumping all people under one banner? I'm simply speaking about a group of people. A group of people trump pandered to in his campaigning to drum up support.

There are other groups he pandered to.

As for your second statement

Yes.

How we are dealing with illegal immigration has been a shocking shocking mess for as long as I can remember. It's disgraceful and a huge part of it is the xenophobic vocal minority that stop any meaningful debate or action. Thanks to them we will be on this same merry go round of achieving nothing for the foreseeable future.

Forzaport said:
Oh but I have, you just ignored it all.

8 years of Trump isn't a threat, it's your reality if you believe the wall is going up because of xenophobia. How could anyone who voted for Trump ever vote democrat if they're xenophobic? Democrats need to claw back 36 electoral college votes, possibly more. It won't happen if you label Trump voters as deplorables.

You seem to be more upset that Trump is proving to be an effective leader and are hoping he fails to sooth your ego. If this is true, you'll find yourself constantly frustrated at Trump. The thing is though, Trump's modus operandi involves failure in the form of A/B testing. He will fail and then he will succeed. Getting Healthcare through the House is one example, "Cryin' Chuck Schumer" is another.
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A) how is my disapproval of trump going to have any effect on American voters o_O

B) you are taking a label I've applied to an element he pandered to and taking it to the extreme to try to dismantle it.

C) you are saying a group of people cant be xenophobic because then we would never have a democrat voted in? How do you get that logic? A democrat wouldn't need 100% of votes to get in. The xenophobic group trump pandered to doesn't represent the entirety of his voters. There are so many reasons this logic doesn't follow.

D) the problem im finding with trump supporters is they are very keen to assign victories to him. You've already called the wall (fence) a victory because illegal immigration has momentarily dropped. In so many ways it's crazy to call that a victory right now.
 
philthy05 said:
A) how is my disapproval of trump going to have any effect on American voters o_O

B) you are taking a label I've applied to an element he pandered to and taking it to the extreme to try to dismantle it.

C) you are saying a group of people cant be xenophobic because then we would never have a democrat voted in? How do you get that logic? A democrat wouldn't need 100% of votes to get in. The xenophobic group trump pandered to doesn't represent the entirety of his voters. There are so many reasons this logic doesn't follow.

D) the problem im finding with trump supporters is they are very keen to assign victories to him. You've already called the wall (fence) a victory because illegal immigration has momentarily dropped. In so many ways it's crazy to call that a victory right now.
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A) I was making the point that you need to understand the people who voted for Trump before judging them

B) You're the one that said the wall is being built because of xenophobia and I've said that's wrong, where's the extreme?

C) I'm saying xenophobic people wouldn't vote democrat. You're the one now pivoting to a "subset" of xenophobic voters which then begs the question of why Trump would bother making the wall a pillar of his campaign for a "subset" of xenophobic voters.

D) I made an observation that illegal immigration has dropped 60+% since Trump took office. That's a victory. Why is that crazy? If you're thinking illegal immigration will shoot back up, it won't. ICE agents have the freedom to follow US law now that Trump is in the White House. The Obama Administration obstructed ICE agents from doing their job. It's why the ICE and border patrol unions endorsed Trump during the election.
 
Donald Trump says he came up with 'priming the pump', a phrase that was coined before he was born

"Mr Trump: We have to prime the pump.
The Economist: It's very Keynesian.
Mr Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you heard that expression before, for this particular type of an event?
The Economist: Priming the pump?
Mr Trump: Yeah, have you heard it?
The Economist: Yes.
Mr Trump: Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't heard it. I mean, I just ... I came up with it a couple of days ago and I thought it was good. It's what you have to do.
The Economist: It's...
Mr Trump: Yeah, what you have to do is you have to put something in before you can get something out."

First known use of "priming the pump, 1933. :rolleyes:
 
Having a laugh reading the Washington Post propaganda today, not unexpected given Trump had a Russian in the Oval Office.

Every time a former official is quoted, remember that former officials are usually democrats who lost their jobs because they lost the election. Have a read a take a shot every time you see the word "former".

Fake News
“It is all kind of shocking,” said a former senior U.S. official.
 

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'Look at the way I've been treated lately - especially by the media.
No politician in history has been treated worse or more unfairly.'
Donald Trump, May 2017.

Hmmm, I wonder why that should be Donald.

We now have the Russian President Vladimir Putin offering to defend Trump by releasing a transcript of the Trump/Lavrov meeting. The problem for Donald is that Putin is so liberal with truth that no one could ever be certain about anything he endorses. Putin is still telling the world that Russian athletes have done nothing wrong.

We also have senior Republican's as well as Democrats calling for an independent enquiry into the alleged Russian involvement in the US election campaign. Both Republican's and democrats want the recently sacked FBI chief James Comey to front that enquiry. Not even Donald's own party trusts the White House to investigate the President.

On the BBC last Tuesday a former Constitutional adviser to George W Bush stated that the Russian scandal was worse than Watergate because it involved possible interference by a foreign power and a possible White House cover up of that involvement.

On the ABC this morning the ABC's Washington Correspondent said that the man who promised to drain the swamp in Washington is himself drowning in the swamp.
 
It's ridiculous. Good luck Mueller in finding the unicorn but I reckon Pelosi gave the game away today by already starting the he's independent but not really talk. No one's found anything with multiple investigations already, at best he might find something to pin on a nobody.
 
It's no coincidence that the 2 biggest Trump stories this week have come from the 2 most anti-Trump syndicates.

The NY Times would have you believe that Trump, the day after he sacked Flynn, met with Comey and allegedly said "I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go” equates to obstruction of justice (it doesn't and no respectable court would prosecute on it). What's worse is that this is allegedly documented in a memo which the Times admits that they have not seen.

The Washington post would have you believe that Trump leaked super secret stuff to the Russians and that's bad because Russians are bad (It's supposedly related to ISIS and everything to come out has already been in the public domain, e.g. Laptop bombs on commercial flights). What's worse is that the article is laced with commentary from former (read: democrat) officials.

It's a peak hysteria week but as usual there's nothing of substance, just the hope that a multi-pronged attack by the opposition media will smoke something out. Still waiting.
 
Forzaport said:
It's no coincidence that the 2 biggest Trump stories this week have come from the 2 most anti-Trump syndicates.

The NY Times would have you believe that Trump, the day after he sacked Flynn, met with Comey and allegedly said "I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go” equates to obstruction of justice (it doesn't and no respectable court would prosecute on it). What's worse is that this is allegedly documented in a memo which the Times admits that they have not seen.

The Washington post would have you believe that Trump leaked super secret stuff to the Russians and that's bad because Russians are bad (It's supposedly related to ISIS and everything to come out has already been in the public domain, e.g. Laptop bombs on commercial flights). What's worse is that the article is laced with commentary from former (read: democrat) officials.

It's a peak hysteria week but as usual there's nothing of substance, just the hope that a multi-pronged attack by the opposition media will smoke something out. Still waiting.
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The big issue is whether Trump has covered anything up in his reported dealings with the Russians and it goes back to the days prior to Trump's nomination as the Republican candidate. Richard Paynter who was George W Bush's ethics and legal adviser is pretty adamant that there needs to be an independent investigation into the activities of Donald Trump's inner sanctum and if there has been any Russian involvement in the Republican campaign did Trump know about it? The appointment of Robert S. Mueller by the Justice Department, goes way beyond the Trump/Lavrov exchange it goes back several years to the days preceding Trump's nomination.

Donald Trump may be entirely innocent but there sure is plenty of smoke atm and a good deal of it originates within the Republican Party. You really need to broaden your reading if you believe this is a plot by the Democrats.
 
raptalia said:
The big issue is whether Trump has covered anything up in his reported dealings with the Russians and it goes back to the days prior to Trump's nomination as the Republican candidate. Richard Paynter who was George W Bush's ethics and legal adviser is pretty adamant that there needs to be an independent investigation into the activities of Donald Trump's inner sanctum and if there has been any Russian involvement in the Republican campaign did Trump know about it? The appointment of Robert S. Mueller by the Justice Department, goes way beyond the Trump/Lavrov exchange it goes back several years to the days preceding Trump's nomination.

Donald Trump may be entirely innocent but there sure is plenty of smoke atm and a good deal of it originates within the Republican Party. You really need to broaden your reading if you believe this is a plot by the Democrats.
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This is absolutely a plot by the democrats. It's their only effective weapon. Happy to broaden my reading, present me with something that doesn't smell like bullshit.

Here's the problem, everything is at such a fever pitch right now that even being in the same room as a Russian is viewed through the lens of there being some nefarious activity. I don't doubt plenty of people on both sides of the political spectrum had dealings with Russians as normal people would. What I take issue with is that every single possible Russian interaction/association/connection is compounded to satisfy the narrative that Trump is in league with the Russians.
 
It is ridiculous. Straight after she loses the Russians are coming lol. Good luck finding the crime to fit the verdict, the Democrats never wanted a special prosecutor for Russia they wanted one in the hope he finds something else completely irrelevant that actually exists and everyone knows this. Any grown adult who isnt mentally impaired knows that the Russian conspiracy is ridiculous no one can even explain how they were meant to have changed the election amd interfered for him to win. So Trump ends up being investigated for a crime that has zero evidence of anything to actually investigate and people are screaming inpeachment!? lol.

Also to note when you set a new standard of behaviour and opposition you get thst back in spades when the tide turns
 
Forzaport said:
This is absolutely a plot by the democrats. It's their only effective weapon. Happy to broaden my reading, present me with something that doesn't smell like bullshit.

Here's the problem, everything is at such a fever pitch right now that even being in the same room as a Russian is viewed through the lens of there being some nefarious activity. I don't doubt plenty of people on both sides of the political spectrum had dealings with Russians as normal people would. What I take issue with is that every single possible Russian interaction/association/connection is compounded to satisfy the narrative that Trump is in league with the Russians.
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It's absolutely a plot. It's borderline treason. It's been months they still haven't come to realisation that Trump is president.

I mean you have this guy saying this.





Swept under the carpet.


If Trump did this, an impeachment notice would be in the oval office by Monday Pence addressing the nation and world by Tuesday. There has been about 6 officials already saying there is no evidence. It just keeps going on and on.
 
*peeks in*

Ah well, at least this alt-right circle jerk is fizzing along in an unpopulated area.

kYqDeN.gif
 
raman said:
*peeks in*

Ah well, at least this alt-right circle jerk is fizzing along in an unpopulated area.

kYqDeN.gif
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We can always trust you to come up with your unwitty internet bullying style posts with anyone who doesn't share your beliefs and values.
 
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