The truth about Sharon's “redeployment plan”

Lestat

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 16, 2002
Posts
7,356
Likes
41
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Arsenal
Thread starter #1
Last week Dov Weisglass was interviewed by Haretz, in what one can only describe as quite an 'enlightening' interview. What he said was very interesting, and i'd would love to hear our resident zionists put their spin on this one. For even though zionists are by there very nature liars, and hypocrites...i fear this may even be beyond there abilities.

I don't think even Jane could possibly ever again with a straight face claim that Israel is a country of 'peace'.

His statement is crystal clear....

the “redeployment plan” was designed to “freeze” the peace process for decades, to put all peace plans “in formaldehyde,” to put an end to the possibility of a Palestinian state, once and for all.
So much for the man of peace...

---------------------------------------------------

Thank you, Dubby
By Uri Avnery

What really is important is not what he said or why he said it, but the world-view that animates him.
By now, everybody in Israel has had a go at analyzing the ‘Ha’aretz’ newspaper interview earlier this month with Dov (‘Dubby’) Weisglass, Ariel Sharon’s most intimate confidant. But there is precious little to analyze. His statement is crystal clear: the “redeployment plan” was designed to “freeze” the peace process for decades, to put all peace plans “in formaldehyde,” to put an end to the possibility of a Palestinian state, once and for all.

A dozen small settlements will be dismantled in order to keep practically all the 250,000 West Bank settlers where they are. Israel will ‘concede’ the Gaza Strip, which constitutes 1.3 percent of pre-1948 Palestine, in order to take permanent possession of the West Bank, which is 16 times larger. The Gaza Strip will be cut off from the world on land, by sea, and in the air, as will the seven or eight similar Palestinian enclaves that will come into being on the West Bank.

Why did Dubby disclose this plan? After all, the disclosure was like spitting in the face of the Labor Party, exactly when Sharon needed them most!

The answer is simple: Sharon wants to convince the right and has only contempt for the left. Thirteen out of the 40 members of his Likud faction in the Knesset abstained from voting for him last week, although the vote was about nothing more then a resolution to ‘take notice’ of an unimportant speech of his. Sharon wants to explain to the extreme right-wing of his own party that ‘disengagement’ is a war-plan rather than a peace-plan, a plan to annex territories rather than a plan to ‘give up’ territories, a plan for the rapid expansion of the West Bank settlements rather than a plan to dismantle the settlements in the Gaza Strip.

Sharon cannot say so openly without making a fool of George W. Bush. That’s why he sent his trusted lieutenant to say it instead of him. The settlers know, of course, that Dubby is ‘His Master’s voice.’

Sharon can afford to treat the ‘left’ with disdain. Witness the farce with Shimon Peres: he analyzed Weisglass’ statement in an uncompromising Knesset speech and condemned Sharon acidly. Immediately afterward he assembled the Labor Knesset faction and asked them not to vote against Sharon. But the members were so convinced by his speech that they overruled him, 10 to 9. “I was too successful,” Peres complained.

Thereafter, the two ‘leftist’ parties, Labor and Yakhad (formerly Meretz), announced that they were going to vote for the disengagement plan when Sharon submits it to the Knesset. No disclosures will cause them to desist. Sharon knew that he could rely on their feebleness, and how right he is.

Only Weisglass himself may pay a price. It is difficult to believe that the beautiful friendship between Dubby and Condy (Condoleezza Rice, US national security advisor) – between Weis and Rice – will hold after Weisglass practically undressed her in public.

But that is not what is really important. After all, Weisglass did not reveal anything new to those who know Sharon’s intentions. And whoever wants to deceive himself will continue to do so.

What is really important is the Weltanschauung, the world-view of Sharon as it emerges from Weisglass’ long interview. When he exposes Sharon’s ways of thinking, this sheds light on the basic beliefs and perceptions of his master.

Sharon’s world is one-dimensional.

A world where brute force, and only brute force, reigns supreme.

This is a world where there are no past and no future, no lessons of history and no foreseeing of things to come. Whatever exists now will exist forever.

This is a world without moral constraints, where the opinions of mankind do not count. The world of Stalin, who once asked contemptuously: “How many divisions has the pope?”

His world looks like this:

- The only thing that counts is the interest of Israel and the Jewish people (as seen by Sharon).

- Their interest is to take possession of all of the territory between the Mediterranean and the Jordan (at least).

- The Palestinians are powerless. Hence, they are nothing more than an object to be kicked around as much as one pleases.

- Europe is a pathetic lot. To hell with Europe.

- There is only one real power in the world: The United States. They are the ‘world management.’

- All the power of the US is concentrated in the White House. The president and a handful of other people are the managers.

- That’s how it is now, and that’s how it is going to stay in the future.

- Therefore, all we need is to maintain the power of the Israeli army and the alliance with the White House. All the rest is nonsense, fantasies of eggheads.

- The Israeli army and the White House – that is the winning combination. With it we shall take complete possession of all we desire. There is no need for a peace process, indeed, there is no need for peace. The Palestinians are a negligible factor. Let them vegetate for the time being in their ghettos. In due course, they will disappear.

This is, in free translation, the world of Sharon according to Weisglass.

On the face of it, a realistic picture. Sharon’s thoughts are primitive, and perhaps because of this, one might believe he sees things as they really are.

Really? Is this in truth the real picture? History shows that brute military power is a blunt instrument that cannot solve complex problems. A leader who puts his sole trust in it will discover that it is a broken reed that wounds the hand that grasps it.

What Thomas Jefferson wrote in the American Declaration of Independence about “a decent respect for the opinions of mankind” was not just an empty phrase. It was a realistic appraisal: World public opinion influences in a thousand ways the behavior of nations and governments. It can have far-reaching effects.

“The pen is mightier than the sword,” according to a British poet. And the pope does indeed have divisions, even it they don’t march on the parade ground.

Military might is but one of the forces active in the world. Economic forces do not have a smaller impact; as a matter of fact, their impact may be much bigger in the long run. Moral forces are invisible, but their impact is immense. One of the greatest military leaders in history, Napoleon, was well aware of this.

The human craving for freedom is invincible, and so is the struggle of oppressed nations for liberation. To ignore this is not realism, it is blindness.

Even George W. Bush, himself no less primitive and brutal than Sharon, is learning that ‘world management’ is subject to severe limitations, as he slowly sinks into the morass of Iraq. The belief that Israel’s problems can be solved solely by an alliance with the ‘world managers’ is an illusion.

The world is not one-dimensional, even if one country has attained an impressive military superiority. The world is a very complicated place; innumerable forces are at work, nothing stays in one place. “Everything is in flux,” as an ancient Greek philosopher said.

One is tempted to paraphrase Hamlet: “There are more things in heaven and earth, Arik, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

The world-view of Sharon, which at first appears so realistic, is the very opposite of realism. It is a view that will lead us to disaster.

And to Dubby, who disclosed it, whatever his motives, many thanks.

Uri Avnery is an Israeli journalist and peace activist
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Dippers Donuts

Premiership Player
Joined
Jul 24, 2001
Posts
4,147
Likes
7
Location
Hunting the snark
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Sluggers
#2
Lestat said:
Last week Dov Weisglass was interviewed by Haretz, in what one can only describe as quite an 'enlightening' interview. What he said was very interesting, and i'd would love to hear our resident zionists put their spin on this one. For even though zionists are by there very nature liars, and hypocrites...i fear this may even be beyond there abilities.

I don't think even Jane could possibly ever again with a straight face claim that Israel is a country of 'peace'.

His statement is crystal clear....



So much for the man of peace...

---------------------------------------------------

Thank you, Dubby
By Uri Avnery

What really is important is not what he said or why he said it, but the world-view that animates him.
By now, everybody in Israel has had a go at analyzing the ‘Ha’aretz’ newspaper interview earlier this month with Dov (‘Dubby’) Weisglass, Ariel Sharon’s most intimate confidant. But there is precious little to analyze. His statement is crystal clear: the “redeployment plan” was designed to “freeze” the peace process for decades, to put all peace plans “in formaldehyde,” to put an end to the possibility of a Palestinian state, once and for all.

A dozen small settlements will be dismantled in order to keep practically all the 250,000 West Bank settlers where they are. Israel will ‘concede’ the Gaza Strip, which constitutes 1.3 percent of pre-1948 Palestine, in order to take permanent possession of the West Bank, which is 16 times larger. The Gaza Strip will be cut off from the world on land, by sea, and in the air, as will the seven or eight similar Palestinian enclaves that will come into being on the West Bank.

Why did Dubby disclose this plan? After all, the disclosure was like spitting in the face of the Labor Party, exactly when Sharon needed them most!

The answer is simple: Sharon wants to convince the right and has only contempt for the left. Thirteen out of the 40 members of his Likud faction in the Knesset abstained from voting for him last week, although the vote was about nothing more then a resolution to ‘take notice’ of an unimportant speech of his. Sharon wants to explain to the extreme right-wing of his own party that ‘disengagement’ is a war-plan rather than a peace-plan, a plan to annex territories rather than a plan to ‘give up’ territories, a plan for the rapid expansion of the West Bank settlements rather than a plan to dismantle the settlements in the Gaza Strip.

Sharon cannot say so openly without making a fool of George W. Bush. That’s why he sent his trusted lieutenant to say it instead of him. The settlers know, of course, that Dubby is ‘His Master’s voice.’

Sharon can afford to treat the ‘left’ with disdain. Witness the farce with Shimon Peres: he analyzed Weisglass’ statement in an uncompromising Knesset speech and condemned Sharon acidly. Immediately afterward he assembled the Labor Knesset faction and asked them not to vote against Sharon. But the members were so convinced by his speech that they overruled him, 10 to 9. “I was too successful,” Peres complained.

Thereafter, the two ‘leftist’ parties, Labor and Yakhad (formerly Meretz), announced that they were going to vote for the disengagement plan when Sharon submits it to the Knesset. No disclosures will cause them to desist. Sharon knew that he could rely on their feebleness, and how right he is.

Only Weisglass himself may pay a price. It is difficult to believe that the beautiful friendship between Dubby and Condy (Condoleezza Rice, US national security advisor) – between Weis and Rice – will hold after Weisglass practically undressed her in public.

But that is not what is really important. After all, Weisglass did not reveal anything new to those who know Sharon’s intentions. And whoever wants to deceive himself will continue to do so.

What is really important is the Weltanschauung, the world-view of Sharon as it emerges from Weisglass’ long interview. When he exposes Sharon’s ways of thinking, this sheds light on the basic beliefs and perceptions of his master.

Sharon’s world is one-dimensional.

A world where brute force, and only brute force, reigns supreme.

This is a world where there are no past and no future, no lessons of history and no foreseeing of things to come. Whatever exists now will exist forever.

This is a world without moral constraints, where the opinions of mankind do not count. The world of Stalin, who once asked contemptuously: “How many divisions has the pope?”

His world looks like this:

- The only thing that counts is the interest of Israel and the Jewish people (as seen by Sharon).

- Their interest is to take possession of all of the territory between the Mediterranean and the Jordan (at least).

- The Palestinians are powerless. Hence, they are nothing more than an object to be kicked around as much as one pleases.

- Europe is a pathetic lot. To hell with Europe.

- There is only one real power in the world: The United States. They are the ‘world management.’

- All the power of the US is concentrated in the White House. The president and a handful of other people are the managers.

- That’s how it is now, and that’s how it is going to stay in the future.

- Therefore, all we need is to maintain the power of the Israeli army and the alliance with the White House. All the rest is nonsense, fantasies of eggheads.

- The Israeli army and the White House – that is the winning combination. With it we shall take complete possession of all we desire. There is no need for a peace process, indeed, there is no need for peace. The Palestinians are a negligible factor. Let them vegetate for the time being in their ghettos. In due course, they will disappear.

This is, in free translation, the world of Sharon according to Weisglass.

On the face of it, a realistic picture. Sharon’s thoughts are primitive, and perhaps because of this, one might believe he sees things as they really are.

Really? Is this in truth the real picture? History shows that brute military power is a blunt instrument that cannot solve complex problems. A leader who puts his sole trust in it will discover that it is a broken reed that wounds the hand that grasps it.

What Thomas Jefferson wrote in the American Declaration of Independence about “a decent respect for the opinions of mankind” was not just an empty phrase. It was a realistic appraisal: World public opinion influences in a thousand ways the behavior of nations and governments. It can have far-reaching effects.

“The pen is mightier than the sword,” according to a British poet. And the pope does indeed have divisions, even it they don’t march on the parade ground.

Military might is but one of the forces active in the world. Economic forces do not have a smaller impact; as a matter of fact, their impact may be much bigger in the long run. Moral forces are invisible, but their impact is immense. One of the greatest military leaders in history, Napoleon, was well aware of this.

The human craving for freedom is invincible, and so is the struggle of oppressed nations for liberation. To ignore this is not realism, it is blindness.

Even George W. Bush, himself no less primitive and brutal than Sharon, is learning that ‘world management’ is subject to severe limitations, as he slowly sinks into the morass of Iraq. The belief that Israel’s problems can be solved solely by an alliance with the ‘world managers’ is an illusion.

The world is not one-dimensional, even if one country has attained an impressive military superiority. The world is a very complicated place; innumerable forces are at work, nothing stays in one place. “Everything is in flux,” as an ancient Greek philosopher said.

One is tempted to paraphrase Hamlet: “There are more things in heaven and earth, Arik, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

The world-view of Sharon, which at first appears so realistic, is the very opposite of realism. It is a view that will lead us to disaster.

And to Dubby, who disclosed it, whatever his motives, many thanks.

Uri Avnery is an Israeli journalist and peace activist
What I find surprising is that anyone really thinks sharon's gaza disengagement plan is a genuine push for peace.

The 7000 settlers there are a massive drain on Israels resources (particularly the military) and there is no strategic benefit to the gaza occupation.

Good luck trying to evict those feral redneck gaza occupiers when the time comes, it will get ugly.

It will take a genuinely bipartisan US president to facilitate a genuine peace process. Bush (apart from being congenitally stupid) is obviously not the man for the job (calling Sharon a man of peace?); although Kerry does not exactly inspire me on the Israel issue either I must say.
 

Frodo

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Nov 17, 2000
Posts
12,595
Likes
22
Location
Perth, Western Australia.
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Post Count: 125,527
#3
the “redeployment plan” was designed to “freeze” the peace process for decades, to put all peace plans “in formaldehyde,” to put an end to the possibility of a Palestinian state, once and for all.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seems like an admission that there has never been a legitimate Palestinian State.
 

Lestat

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 16, 2002
Posts
7,356
Likes
41
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Arsenal
Thread starter #4
Frodo said:
the “redeployment plan” was designed to “freeze” the peace process for decades, to put all peace plans “in formaldehyde,” to put an end to the possibility of a Palestinian state, once and for all.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seems like an admission that there has never been a legitimate Palestinian State.
An admission by whom??

Really Frodo...sometimes your stupidity is just astounding.

You do realise that the statement or 'admission' as you put it, was actually made by an Israeli...not a Paletinian.

Your not really that dumb....or are you??
 

Bombers 2003

Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Posts
34,490
Likes
4,769
Location
Yatala
AFL Club
Essendon
#5
Lestat said:
An admission by whom??

Really Frodo...sometimes your stupidity is just astounding.

You do realise that the statement or 'admission' as you put it, was actually made by an Israeli...not a Paletinian.

Your not really that dumb....or are you??
'Fraid so.
And when is Sharon going to be given 'redeployment'?.I'm sure he could find a suitable 'job',Halal Butcher in Lebanon,Perhaps?.
 

MillerCHF

Team Captain
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Posts
518
Likes
1
Other Teams
Melbourne
#6
Re: The truth about Sharon's “redeployment plan”

Lestat said:
An admission by whom??

Really Frodo...sometimes your stupidity is just astounding.

You do realise that the statement or 'admission' as you put it, was actually made by an Israeli...not a Paletinian.

Your not really that dumb....or are you??
Yes Lestat, an admission by an Israeli that you constantly quote. You love his articles so much, yet when he disagrees with you suddenly you distance yourself from him.

I'd say you're the one who is stupid.

Game set and match, Frodo.
 

Lestat

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 16, 2002
Posts
7,356
Likes
41
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Arsenal
Thread starter #7
MillerCHF said:
Yes Lestat, an admission by an Israeli that you constantly quote. You love his articles so much, yet when he disagrees with you suddenly you distance yourself from him.

I'd say you're the one who is stupid.

Game set and match, Frodo.
Oh my God...how dumb can you possibly get!

Read the article again you dim wit. The quote was not made by Uri Avenary.

By now, everybody in Israel has had a go at analyzing the ‘Ha’aretz’ newspaper interview earlier this month with Dov (‘Dubby’) Weisglass, Ariel Sharon’s most intimate confidant. But there is precious little to analyze. His statement is crystal clear: the “redeployment plan” was designed to “freeze” the peace process for decades, to put all peace plans “in formaldehyde,” to put an end to the possibility of a Palestinian state, once and for all.
So as you can see from above...he is in fact quoting Dov Weisglass. It is Dov Weisglass who made the quote...not Uri Avenary...you dimwit.

And because its rather clear you are a little slow, I should perhaps highlight that Uri Avenery is the author of the article, and Dov Weisglass is the one who in fact made the quote.

You do know who Dov Weisglass is...don't you??

Yes...game set and match indeed!

If you had a brain...you might even be dangerous! You and Frodo really ought to get together. You two could learn a lot from eatch other.

:D
 

Lestat

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 16, 2002
Posts
7,356
Likes
41
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Arsenal
Thread starter #8
Whats wrong Miller....no reply??

What happened...have you realised the stupidity of your post...have you perhaps been....errr, umm, defeated. :D:D

Tool!
 

MillerCHF

Team Captain
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Posts
518
Likes
1
Other Teams
Melbourne
#9
Re: The truth about Sharon's “redeployment plan”

Lestat said:
Whats wrong Miller....no reply??

What happened...have you realised the stupidity of your post...have you perhaps been....errr, umm, defeated. :D:D

Tool!
Who cares who the original quote was from. Avnery quotes Weisglass to prove a point and you quote Avnery. You can't just accept some of Weisglass's comments so that you can prove a point, but then discard the rest. That's double standards.

Therefore, it is you who is a tool and a moron and all the other words you call me.
 

Lestat

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 16, 2002
Posts
7,356
Likes
41
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Arsenal
Thread starter #10
MillerCHF said:
Who cares who the original quote was from. Avnery quotes Weisglass to prove a point and you quote Avnery. You can't just accept some of Weisglass's comments so that you can prove a point, but then discard the rest. That's double standards.
:D

BWHAHAHA

What a pathetic attempt at a rebuttal.

Mate...read my post again...then read yours. This time really really slowly.

And perhaps you can finally just admit that you got it wrong...goose!

MillerCHF said:
Therefore, it is you who is a tool and a moron and all the other words you call me.
Gee...how can I reply to such genius. Where did you learn your debating skills...from the primary school playground!

:D

Gotta admit though...you are rather amusing, in a sort of pathetic, pitiful sort of way. And they say jews are supposed to be smart....pfft.
 

MillerCHF

Team Captain
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Posts
518
Likes
1
Other Teams
Melbourne
#11
Re: The truth about Sharon's “redeployment plan”

Lestat said:
Gotta admit though...you are rather amusing, in a sort of pathetic, pitiful sort of way. And they say jews are supposed to be smart....pfft.
Not all Jews are smart. Take BlueMark's girlfriend/wife/lover/just a friend/make believe Jewish friend.
She's not smart at all, and according to some reports I've heard, she is a dog too.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Bombers 2003

Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Posts
34,490
Likes
4,769
Location
Yatala
AFL Club
Essendon
#12
MillerCHF said:
Not all Jews are smart. Take BlueMark's girlfriend/wife/lover/just a friend/make believe Jewish friend.
She's not smart at all, and according to some reports I've heard, she is a dog too.
Better to be a make believe Jew then a Unperson.And probably the same intelleuctal ability as Frodo as well.
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2001
Posts
259
Likes
10
Location
Brisbane
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Melbourne
#13
Re: The truth about Sharon's “redeployment plan”

Uri Avinery is a pathetic apologist for the Palestinians so what he says about Sharon is to be expected. He'll never say a nice word about Israel and its society and he'll never say a bad word about a Palestinian (i.e. he's a quisling).

I would expect that right now he's on the plane to Paris with Yasser Arafat making sure he doesn't barf down the aisles or on an air hostess.

I'm not a political supporter of Sharon but Palestinian reaction to his decision to disengage from Gaza tells you a lot about the Palestinian terror groups who have constantly claimed they're fighting against Israeli occupation.

That's BS - they're fighting against Israel's existence. Check out the websites for Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Fatah, the PLO - they all want to wipe out Israel. If that wasn't the case they would be very quiet now while the Israelis are preparing to move their people out of Gaza. They don't just want Gaza and the West Bank to be "judenrein" - they want the lot and Israeli won't let them get it.
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2001
Posts
259
Likes
10
Location
Brisbane
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Melbourne
#14
Not that I need to look after Weisglass but if you took the trouble to read the interview he gave in Haaretz Newspaper it becomes clear that he was misquoted and Uri baby decided to go for the jugular based in half truths and misinformation.

Which is his usual modus operandi.
 

MillerCHF

Team Captain
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Posts
518
Likes
1
Other Teams
Melbourne
#15
Re: The truth about Sharon's “redeployment plan”

Bananabender said:
Not that I need to look after Weisglass but if you took the trouble to read the interview he gave in Haaretz Newspaper it becomes clear that he was misquoted and Uri baby decided to go for the jugular based in half truths and misinformation.

Which is his usual modus operandi.
Seems Lestat has gone quiet again. BananaBender DEFEATS Lestat.

How many people have you been beaten by Lestat? GuruJane, Bananabender, myself. Why do you bother coming here when you know you'll be left with no answer and resort to insults? It must get tiring being silenced like this so often Lestat.
 

stormee

Premiership Player
Joined
Oct 5, 2004
Posts
4,660
Likes
3,112
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
#16
******** Israel. I'm a shameless supporter of palestinian independence. And don't tell me about suicide bombings being terrorism, or criminal, when all other options are removed from your state, and you are left under the yoke of another country, in a situation similar to slavery, i believe you should use any measures necessary to achieve your objectives.
Israel are hypocrites. its ok to kill innocent civilians with gunships, and destroy their houses, but suicide bombings, oh no. the wall is a grievous breach of basic human rights, and the fact that Israel has IGNORED over 200 UN security council resolutions in regard to gaza and the west bank, or had their bitches the US veto for them, shows their callous disregard for the rule of law and the fundamental rights to live.

They propagate a myth that Israel is their land, given to them by the bible or some other foolish belief, when palestinians still have the deeds to their land, that they were forcibly removed from by israeli settlers. Sharon and israel, bad news for the world. their belief that might is right, as illustrated in the article, is alarmingly similar to many of the 20th century dictators, and for a people who know what it is like to be persecuted, their own persecution of the palestinians is sickening.

Sorry bout my little rant, its a topic which gets me sorta heated...
 

MillerCHF

Team Captain
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Posts
518
Likes
1
Other Teams
Melbourne
#17
Re: The truth about Sharon's “redeployment plan”

stormee said:
******** Israel. I'm a shameless supporter of palestinian independence. And don't tell me about suicide bombings being terrorism, or criminal, when all other options are removed from your state, and you are left under the yoke of another country, in a situation similar to slavery, i believe you should use any measures necessary to achieve your objectives.
Israel are hypocrites. its ok to kill innocent civilians with gunships, and destroy their houses, but suicide bombings, oh no. the wall is a grievous breach of basic human rights, and the fact that Israel has IGNORED over 200 UN security council resolutions in regard to gaza and the west bank, or had their bitches the US veto for them, shows their callous disregard for the rule of law and the fundamental rights to live.

They propagate a myth that Israel is their land, given to them by the bible or some other foolish belief, when palestinians still have the deeds to their land, that they were forcibly removed from by israeli settlers. Sharon and israel, bad news for the world. their belief that might is right, as illustrated in the article, is alarmingly similar to many of the 20th century dictators, and for a people who know what it is like to be persecuted, their own persecution of the palestinians is sickening.

Sorry bout my little rant, its a topic which gets me sorta heated...
Always nice to have another supporter of terrorism here at BF. Glad to know you support the fact that so many people - Jews and Arabs - were killed and wounded by a 16 year old suicide bomber the other day.

Welcome stormee.
 

stormee

Premiership Player
Joined
Oct 5, 2004
Posts
4,660
Likes
3,112
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
#18
terrorism can take shape in many forms. the definition of terrorism, courtesty of dictionary.com is...

'The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.'

Now.
By this definition, certainly, the bombing of civilians in tel aviv is terrorism. However.
So is the bulldozing of houses. See: Israeli Defence Forces.
And.
So is the use of helicopter gunships, and tanks against people's homes. See: Israeli Defence Forces.
All unlawful.
They are using these methods in order to frighten the populace into submission. Therefore, By definition, they are using terrorism also. Therefore you too, Miller are a supporter of an equally horrific form of Terrorism. Wouldn't you say that when confronted with a force which is innumerably more powerful than your own, such as the palestinians have, and whom has occupied your land, or what little you have left in the gaza strip and the west bank, land illegally occupied, i may add- you must resort to what methods you can to fight back? especially with, from what this article says, the upper echelons in Israel wanting to put the peace plan on ice, and prevent a free palestinian state. It's ludicrous that the world stands by and watches this happen.
 

BlueMark

Club Legend
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Posts
2,233
Likes
12
Location
MELB
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Carlton
#19
Re: The truth about Sharon's “redeployment plan”

MillerCHF said:
Not all Jews are smart. Take BlueMark's girlfriend/wife/lover/just a friend/make believe Jewish friend.
She's not smart at all, and according to some reports I've heard, she is a dog too.
One day you will figure it out MillerCHF, but better to be a make believe Jew than a hate filled right wing ideologue.
 

fearlessone77

Club Legend
Suspended
Joined
Sep 17, 2003
Posts
2,587
Likes
5
Location
Planet Zorg
Other Teams
Carlton
#20
Miller get outta here please youre making us look like idiots.

I have had the Luxury of meeting BlueMark and his partner and whilst we disagree politically I would at no point resort to these rubbish personal attacks towards anyone not agreeing with you. BlueMark and his partner are knowledgable people, whilst I beleive misguided in some respects :) ,certainly do not deserve your crap.

Take off Miller. your arguments look stupid with your rubbish personal attacks that seem to come with them!!!!!!
 

Lestat

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 16, 2002
Posts
7,356
Likes
41
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Arsenal
Thread starter #21
fearlessone77 said:
Miller get outta here please youre making us look like idiots.

I have had the Luxury of meeting BlueMark and his partner and whilst we disagree politically I would at no point resort to these rubbish personal attacks towards anyone not agreeing with you. BlueMark and his partner are knowledgable people, whilst I beleive misguided in some respects :) ,certainly do not deserve your crap.

Take off Miller. your arguments look stupid with your rubbish personal attacks that seem to come with them!!!!!!
hehehe....Miller, in your own silly words....looks like you've been err...defeated.

You silly tool.

Get a grip son....your very fast overtaking Frodo as the biggest laughing stock on these boards.

Everyone is lauging at you...not with you.
 

Bombers 2003

Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Posts
34,490
Likes
4,769
Location
Yatala
AFL Club
Essendon
#22
BlueMark said:
One day you will figure it out MillerCHF, but better to be a make believe Jew than a hate filled right wing ideologue.
The only way MillerCHF could figure anything out would be if Howarss told him/her/it what to 'think'.
 

Lestat

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 16, 2002
Posts
7,356
Likes
41
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Arsenal
Thread starter #23
Bananabender said:
Uri Avinery is a pathetic apologist for the Palestinians so what he says about Sharon is to be expected. He'll never say a nice word about Israel and its society and he'll never say a bad word about a Palestinian (i.e. he's a quisling).
What a pathetic post. So typical of the zionist pigs......attack the author, without actually attacking what he says.

Yes of course....he's a self hating jew. blah blah blah....i've heard it all before.

Bananabender said:
I'm not a political supporter of Sharon but Palestinian reaction to his decision to disengage from Gaza tells you a lot about the Palestinian terror groups who have constantly claimed they're fighting against Israeli occupation.
Of course...that fact that Palestinians will be allowed to live in the prison which is Gaza Strip, with no control over there borders, no control over there own air space, whilst the majority of the westbank gets annexed by Israel....how dare they react negatively to such a 'generous' offer.

Oh please.....keep the crap to yourself...its getting rather smelly in here.

Bananabender said:
That's BS - they're fighting against Israel's existence. Check out the websites for Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Fatah, the PLO - they all want to wipe out Israel. If that wasn't the case they would be very quiet now while the Israelis are preparing to move their people out of Gaza. They don't just want Gaza and the West Bank to be "judenrein" - they want the lot and Israeli won't let them get it.
more lies coming from a zionist pig. Care to put of some evidence. Perhaps a link to the PLA website, showing the statement where they are fighting against 'Israel's existence' would suffice.

Besides...how the hell do you know whats on HAMAS's website. Can you read arabic?? If so...tell me whats on there home page. hmmm. didn't think so.

More zioinist lies! You can't help yourselves...can you.

And what of the true zionist goal of 'greater eretz'...you know, from the nile to the Euphrates.

You zionists...the true terrrorists of the middle east.
 

Bombers 2003

Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Posts
34,490
Likes
4,769
Location
Yatala
AFL Club
Essendon
#24
Banana Bummer and MillerCHF.
If a israeli court said Sharon was in all probabilty guilty for the massacre of the refugees in Sabra and Shatila camps and Netanyahu is a crook,why do the isreali people,who mainly accept the rule of law,want these 2 as their 'leaders'?.
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2001
Posts
259
Likes
10
Location
Brisbane
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Melbourne
#25
Bomber 2003 and Lestat - I won't waste time responding to your crude handling of facts and fiction and your puerile attempts at making ad hominem insults but I will respond on the issue of the Hamas Charter because I have read it and (surprise, surprise) it is published in English as well as Arabic which is rather unfortunate for people of your ilk who try to push the false message that Palestinian terrorists are only fighting the Israeli occupation of Gaza and the West Bank.

For your benefit try

http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

Do the following words help you?

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it"

And guess what Lestat?

Islamic Jihad, Fatah, the PLO - the lot of them have charters and constitutions that waffle on about dismantling Israel.

Next time you accuse someone of lying - get to get your facts straight because if you don't you end up looking very, very stupid.
 
Top Bottom