Umpiring The Umpiring Dissent Rule - Discuss Here

[Tulip]

The fact they call it 'abuse' rather than 'dissent' makes my blood boil.

A player putting his arms out or saying "c'mon really" is now abuse. A nice way for self-righteous umpires and officials to avoid any kind of self-reflection.

The saddest part about it is that Brad Scott would never have stood for it when he was a player. He is so up his own arse.

 

[Some Idiot]

But we all need to change...

Except the umpires, they can be s**t for as long as they like without consequence apparently.

The narrative is sickening.

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Players arguing with umpires isn't supposed to be a consequence. They have their reviews, umpires get dropped for underperforming.

 

[Bald]

The fact they call it 'abuse' rather than 'dissent' makes my blood boil.

A player putting his arms out or saying "c'mon really" is now abuse. A nice way for self-righteous umpires and officials to avoid any kind of self-reflection.

The saddest part about it is that Brad Scott would never have stood for it when he was a player. He is so up his own arse.

Some still call deliberate when it’s probably insufficient intent. But yeah. Using the word abuse is probably disrespectful to people that actually experience abuse.

 

[archereleven]

Players arguing with umpires isn't supposed to be a consequence. They have their reviews, umpires get dropped for underperforming.

No players stating their case towards a stupid free kick where the umpire is wrong is called 'feedback'.

Not allowed as it's abuse.

"The AFL has reviewed this weekend's round of umpiring and has found 2 incorrect decisions"

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[ManInWhite]

Here is another to consider, the AFL has cracked down on umpire abuse (which was not really evident to begin with) because they are telling everyone that they need more umpires coming through. You see according to Scott and Co it's the abuse that is diminishing interest.

Now let's look at economic reality. Umpires receive between 60k and top line umpires 150k. They are critical to the game yet we pay them stuff all for an industry that pre COVID was make g over $800m per year.

So if you want more inspires coming through, make it attractive to be in the big league. Too umpire salaries should be double that at least, possibly triple.

You put it out there you could earn $250+, there will be a growing interest, it's simple

The pitfall though is the assumption that there are other people out in the community who would do a better job if the money was worthwhile. Skills and ability wise you won't find that. By tripling the pay you'll just have the same group of umpires getting paid 3 times as much.

 

[archereleven]

The pitfall though is the assumption that there are other people out in the community who would do a better job if the money was worthwhile. Skills and ability wise you won't find that. By tripling the pay you'll just have the same group of umpires getting paid 3 times as much.

It's obviously more important to make match payments larger for grass roots footy to entice new umpires into the fold.

Once you have a big enough base, the salaries up top become more important to keep umpires striving for promotion and in the game for longer.

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[ManInWhite]

It's obviously more important to make match payments larger for grass roots footy to entice new umpires into the fold.

Once you have a big enough base, the salaries up top become more important to keep umpires striving for promotion and in the game for longer.

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Problem though is that local competitions are saying umpires are paid too much anyway. In my former comp we had to take pay cuts over past years "to help the clubs survive" even though same clubs are starting to pay players even more ludicrous sums of money. Quite happy for the AFL to step in and help subsidise but the silence will be deafening!

 

[Osho]

Players arguing with umpires isn't supposed to be a consequence. They have their reviews, umpires get dropped for underperforming.

Correct weight.
Fancy thinking players should do performance reviews for umps...
Giggle!

 

[CheapCharlie]

How good is it to be able to watch the games and not have to endure players constantly carrying on about every decision.

As I predicted, such a simple rule to follow

 

[Wayne Dwop]

How good is it to be able to watch the games and not have to endure players constantly carrying on about every decision.

As I predicted, such a simple rule to follow

Now we just need to stop the commentators carrying on about every decision. I suggest a 10 minute spell in the naughty corner when they criticise an umpire. Just imagine not having to listen to the rantings of BT, Dunstall, Brereton, Russell, Carey etc.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

How good is it to be able to watch the games and not have to endure players constantly carrying on about every decision.

As I predicted, such a simple rule to follow

A bit sad for Geelong though

 

[archereleven]

Problem though is that local competitions are saying umpires are paid too much anyway. In my former comp we had to take pay cuts over past years "to help the clubs survive" even though same clubs are starting to pay players even more ludicrous sums of money. Quite happy for the AFL to step in and help subsidise but the silence will be deafening!

It needs to be be AFL funded.

They have plenty.

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[archereleven]

How good is it to be able to watch the games and not have to endure players constantly carrying on about every decision.

As I predicted, such a simple rule to follow

We should go back to 1 umpire then as it really doesn't matter how many howlers they adjudicate anymore.

Except at the 'review' of course lol

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[Chief Ten Beers]

ere's like 10 free kicks each side a game sometimes in the VFL. "Play on" is the motto and only obvious frees are paid.

Apart from the marquee players and lower skill level, still a much better game to watch.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

A bit sad for Geelong though

On the other hand... a new tactic is born

WATCH: Joel Selwood tries to point out Roo's act of dissent to the ump

One way or the other, Selwood knows how to get free kicks!

www.theroar.com.au

 

[Crankyhawk]

It will be pointless getting into a lengthy debate with you but you've fallen into the same trap as Eddie and assumed that because you've watched a bit of footy on TV that you're fully across the workings of the umpiring department. As someone who has umpired for 40 years - including time at AFL - I'm trying to help people understand the process and what the pitfalls are with some of these wild ideas being tossed around.

Firstly you need to compare like with like. You started with wage and length of a players career. Typical entry pathway for a player now is via the draft and these kids are getting picked up aged 17 & 18 with no work experience other than Maccas or Coles. On average the umpires aren't getting into senior footy until between 25 & 30. They have generally established a career by then. You mention that if the money is worthwhile you would even think about umpiring. Problem is that Eddie hasn't understood the pathway into AFL seniors. The guys on the list have taken about 5 years at state level / VFL level to get selected to seniors. This period is not going to be paid full time so you have to find a way to survive during this time. Eddie makes it sound like you fill in an application form 1 week and a week later you'll be doing Cats vs Dogs at Marvel on the Friday night.

Most umpires have professional occupations and sit in middle management often with people reporting to them. For the league to suddenly announce that umpires must be FT, these guys and girls then have to decide whether to put their careers on hold for anything that could range from 2 years to 15 years or whether to quit footy. If they go the umpiring pathway, they will fall behind in seniority in their current jobs and for some in professions like health, etc. potentially lose currency in their qualifications. Once footy is over they then have to start climbing back up the tree in their former profession. For quite a number, this isn't worth it over their total working life. Players are retiring around 30 years. Umpires would be retiring around 40 years old and that has a big impact when trying to re-enter the workforce.

People keep saying umpires should be dropped for poor performances. So now we want to make umpires full time and I can see how appealing it is. "Hey, come and join us full time. Quit your job and come with us even though we reserve the right to sack you with no notice". What other sort of occupation would try and recruit people with that mentality?

Compared then to a player who finally retires. Most these days have come straight from school so once they finish playing, they actually begin their working life after footy rather trying to resurrect a former one. Even if they don't retire but get delisted, more than likely they'll move to another club. How many current players are up to their third club or even more? If an umpire gets delisted, there's no other club to go to! These retired players are also starting their working life on the back of highly financial playing contracts - way more than any umpire would earn FT.

I didn't miss the point about umpires attending club training sessions and I'll let you into a secret - they already do that! It's one step better than practising drills by themselves but it still doesn't match a real match intensity at all and the clubs don't train for 2.5 hours under match conditions.

Regarding school visits - that already happens too so it's not like an extra job you'll use to fill in their time.

On the contrary, I think I'm much closer to the mark than you are!

Two birds with one stone really ramp up recruiting of umpires from ranks of retired players - they had no other career anyway, would know the laws of game…

 

[Maze]

Indicating that the ball had hit the ground and it wasn’t a mark. He didn’t utter any abuse or wasn’t at all threatening, just pointed out out what the ump didn’t see because he was on the wrong side of play.
Pathetic rule.

Penalise verbal abuse and overly obsessive appealing for sure, but for asking the question, that’s ridiculous. These guys are playing full of emotion, they’re not robots.

So, what the afl will get, instead of players supposedly abusing the umps, is irate fans berating and booing them.

It's funny how they can always keep their emotions in check when the decision falls their way...Can't ever recall a player handing the ball back when they received a free they didn't deserve or advising the ump about the incorrect decision....

 

[quotemokc]

You can't deny that it makes for great viewing.

 

[Diehard Saint]

It's funny how they can always keep their emotions in check when the decision falls their way...Can't ever recall a player handing the ball back when they received a free they didn't deserve or advising the ump about the incorrect decision....

Sorry, that’s a ridiculous argument - of course they wouldn’t need to keep emotions in check if the decision goes their way. Do you really believe Daniel MacKenzie indicating to the umpire that the ball touched the ground and wasn’t a mark, was worth a 50m penalty? He didn’t go nuts protesting, nor did he verbally abuse the ump.

Anyway, based on the rest of the weekends games it appears the umpires are not rushing to implement a ridiculous rule. They know when they’re being abused, and for the most past raising two arms to ask a question isn’t it.

 

[Maze]

Sorry, that’s a ridiculous argument - of course they wouldn’t need to keep emotions in check if the decision goes their way. Do you really believe Daniel MacKenzie indicating to the umpire that the ball touched the ground and wasn’t a mark, was worth a 50m penalty? He didn’t go nuts protesting, nor did he verbally abuse the ump.

Anyway, based on the rest of the weekends games it appears the umpires are not rushing to implement a ridiculous rule. They know when they’re being abused, and for the most past raising two arms to ask a question isn’t it.

So they only advise the umps when they've made a mistake against them...never for them.
The point here is why must a player point out a perceived umpire error ( which often is the player trying to cover their own error). I've never heard a coach, parent or expert tell a player " make sure you point out umps errors ". They do it for one reason....to pressure the umps. Very simple, players will very quickly adapt and keep their emotions in check if they know it comes with penalties

 

[Osho]

So they only advise the umps when they've made a mistake against them...never for them.
The point here is why must a player point out a perceived umpire error ( which often is the player trying to cover their own error). I've never heard a coach, parent or expert tell a player " make sure you point out umps errors ". They do it for one reason....to pressure the umps. Very simple, players will very quickly adapt and keep their emotions in check if they know it comes with penalties

It is obviously important that umpires are monitored and assessed by players. Otherwise, they will behave like loose cannons and ruin the game. So instant player feedback is really necessary.

Obviously.

 

[Osho]

What's happened to all the shrill overreaction?
It's very disappointing.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

What's happened to all the shrill overreaction?
It's very disappointing.

The umpires have calmed down and learned that not all reactions are abuse?

 

[CheapCharlie]

Osho is Bard and Charlie is his w***er brother. Only explanation imo

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Surprising how quiet yourself and a couple of others, such as Fadge and TheOptimum18 have been since the completion of the round.

What's not surprising is how simple the new rule is to follow for players and how it made for a better viewing experience , not having to watch grown men carry on like toddlers at daycare.

It's okay to admit you got it wrong

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Surprising how quiet yourself and a couple of others, such as Fadge and TheOptimum18 have been since the completion of the round.

What's not surprising is how simple the new rule is to follow for players and how it made for a better viewing experience , not having to watch grown men carry on like toddlers at daycare.

It's okay to admit you got it wrong

Umpires don’t think so.