The unelected hall of shame featuring Rob Chapman

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SaltPeter

"I’m a professional bulls**tter"
Jan 6, 2018
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Chapman really isn't a football person. Not in a Maguire sense anyway. Was never really that interested in footy prior to his engagement. His initial appointment probably had something to do with our financiers at the time. Who knows why he's still there, although he does sit on a few boards.
True. I'm not convinced the Chairman/President needs to be a football person though. Peggy O'Neil for example is from the US and came from a telco (?) background.

Its disconcerting that the Chairman was re-elected and no-one outside knew until it was announced. No fixed term for the Chairman where there are no member voting rights ..? No published discussion of succession planning (that I'm aware of) ..? Frustrating
 

Peter J

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Dec 24, 2008
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Well no, I don't think that you have said is accurate. Did you read the fine print?

As it reads, the AFL has a temporary membership of the club based upon an agreement relating to the 'development grant completion date', with that class of membership being granted prevailing rights over the composition of the non-elected board positions.

I imagine this relates to the capital that was used to purchase the license- i.e. the AFL has assumed the rule of the SANFL, but with a strict date that will cease that arrangement. That date is: 31 October 2028 (or such earlier time as the AFC and the AFL agree).

I.e. it could be ended sooner. In the event that it is not ended sooner, the following applies:

In practice, there is no conceivable way that the AFL is not simply acting on the advice of the current directors and recommendations in appointing.

Pursuant to clause 7.2:

Cessation of AFL Membership
(a) The AFL will cease to be a Member on the Development Grant Completion Date.
(b) From the Development Grant Completion Date, the Board may grant all of the rights held by the AFL to any other class of Member that is in existence on the Development Grant Completion Date or is otherwise established by the Board.
(c) If the Board does not grant the rights of the AFL Voting Member to another class or classes, the Board will grant all of the rights held by the AFL to the Electing Members.


I.e. the AFL does not have any sense of permanent ownership over the club, and it is plausibly a very real and very live possibility that the board will 'choose' to convey the director appointment power on only a limited class of members when the time comes- perhaps limited to the board members- but that is a live decision that needs to be made and fans absolutely should be trying to pressure that decision, and ensure that it's made public when it occurs.

In practice, there is no conceivable way that the AFL is not simply acting on the advice of the current directors and recommendations in appointing at present..

It's also worth noting that the agreement can be moved forward to an earlier time (but not delayed). I.e. public pressure could result in that arrangement being varied, it if were considered 'bad for business'. We could have membership voting rights for the entire board sooner.

In summary: your read of the situation was quite poor, and you should feel bad.

what about 22.1 (b) (ii) though.

I think that’s more relevant to the discussion. 7 is relating to membership and that up until the DGCD the AFL has its own class of membership which carries normal member rights and some bells/whistles.

The real nub of the issue it seems is 22.1 as mentioned above. Under this provision it’s the AFL who appoints Directors after consulting with the board and receiving recommendations.

It’s not clear whether the AFL is in any way bound or whether they exercise their own decision making power.

There doesn’t appear to be any convention as in the operation of our parliamentary constitution.

The fact the term consultation is inserted could lead to an inference they are not bound.

In any event it’s not ideal that the AFL has such power I don’t think
 

feenix67

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True. I'm not convinced the Chairman/President needs to be a football person though. Peggy O'Neil for example is from the US and came from a telco (?) background.

Its disconcerting that the Chairman was re-elected and no-one outside knew until it was announced. No fixed term for the Chairman where there are no member voting rights ..? No published discussion of succession planning (that I'm aware of) ..? Frustrating
Peggy ONeil is an interesting one, as she clearly had a mandate for change, and has a "footy person" as an offsider (Brenda Gale). There's no such mandate at Adelaide.
 

SaltPeter

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Peggy ONeil is an interesting one, as she clearly had a mandate for change, and has a "footy person" as an offsider (Brenda Gale). There's no such mandate at Adelaide.
So in the short term it appears neither Fagan nor Chapman are going anywhere. Perhaps the next place to look to strengthen up the club off field would be to find an experienced "football person" to take over the Head of Football Dept role?

I have a genuine fear right now that Pyke in 1-2 years time will either be pushed or jump off of the cliff and that Campo after an extensive searching, robust screening and interview processes will be appointed our next head coach

It's interesting that Burton has magically become invisible since the draft last year. I sometimes wonder why the club chose to take down the web page from the club site that listed all the staff and their respective roles in early January. I also wonder if there has been some restructuring done behind the scenes, or at least considerable rearranging or juggling of peoples roles? Theres clearly been some change
 

OzSparrow

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So in the short term it appears neither Fagan nor Chapman are going anywhere. Perhaps the next place to look to strengthen up the club off field would be to find an experienced "football person" to take over the Head of Football Dept role?

I have a genuine fear right now that Pyke in 1-2 years time will either be pushed or jump off of the cliff and that Campo after an extensive searching, robust screening and interview processes will be appointed our next head coach

It's interesting that Burton has magically become invisible since the draft last year. I sometimes wonder why the club chose to take down the web page from the club site that listed all the staff and their respective roles in early January. I also wonder if there has been some restructuring done behind the scenes, or at least considerable rearranging or juggling of peoples roles? Theres clearly been some change
OMFG

707793
 

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Mike Smyth

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Oct 8, 2012
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Burton has been the worst appointment in the club's history. Worse than using a top 10 pick on Angwin.

Not just for the injuries, the CM debacle and that infamous press conference, but other facets that we had worked so hard on have regressed under him.

Player retention (and attraction), coaching staff retention/appointments, player development and even our drafting has declined under him (Phil Bunn a big loss IMO). Many of those leaving have also left on bad terms (Bode, Lever, Francou, etc).

Worst of all, there's absolutely no strategy in how we go about building for a season and for the longer-term future. It's just hope everybody gets fit and pick the most senior team and then hope the opposition fails to turn up.

He's ruined our premiership window and he's ruining the chances of a (relatively) pain free rejuvenation of the side as players decline.

Our women's team are lucky that he considers them beneath him.
That blank look in the press conference will be the lasting memory of the Birdman once he leaves. As bad as he has been, I am more critical of those and the process that hired him, defended him and then didn't get rid of him a the end of 2018. It just goes to show you how little those running the club care about onfield success. They must have been shocked when we made the GF in 2017 - "f*** me we didn't see that coming"
 

MRB37

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Chapman really isn't a football person. Not in a Maguire sense anyway. Was never really that interested in footy prior to his engagement. His initial appointment probably had something to do with our financiers at the time. Who knows why he's still there, although he does sit on a few boards.
Our Chairman isn't a footy person, our CEO isn't a footy person, our director of football hasn't actually had a job inside football since he retired, our head of football is a crap fitness coach who only spent 4 years outside Adelaide, Pyke spent 4 years as an assistant before getting the head coaching job, Campo has been with us for a decade, Mattner and Godden are rookies, Hart has 4 years at the Pies before being dumped, Reid is a player manager.

Do we actually have anyone with some varied and quality long term-experience involved in decision making at the club?
 

King Elvis

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Aug 13, 2006
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Our Chairman isn't a footy person, our CEO isn't a footy person, our director of football hasn't actually had a job inside football since he retired, our head of football is a crap fitness coach who only spent 4 years outside Adelaide, Pyke spent 4 years as an assistant before getting the head coaching job, Campo has been with us for a decade, Mattner and Godden are rookies, Hart has 4 years at the Pies before being dumped, Reid is a player manager.

Do we actually have anyone with some varied and quality long term-experience involved in decision making at the club?
Like a Neil Balme type, right?
 

MRB37

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That blank look in the press conference will be the lasting memory of the Birdman once he leaves. As bad as he has been, I am more critical of those and the process that hired him, defended him and then didn't get rid of him a the end of 2018. It just goes to show you how little those running the club care about onfield success. They must have been shocked when we made the GF in 2017 - "f*** me we didn't see that coming"
Best man for the job according to Fagan. Makes me remember the sham "search" that was run that found Nigel Smart to be the best guy we can hire for COO.

We pick a guy we want and then do a search as a "process" to tick off. Brenden Bolton said as much when he interviewed at the end of 2014. We had no interest in hiring him, we'd decided on Walsh before hand, they just did a quick search to tick off the decision.
 

Big Gazoongas

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Imagine how much better our side would look if we didn't get f’ed over for the Tippett thing :(
And yet not one person was sacked over that. Remember Rowey saying ALLEGEDLY the AFL offered the Crows keep their picks but needed to sack Trigg.

We chose to lose picks......and all the weak pricks are still at the club. Didnt sack Trigg because they all f##king knew..........self presevation has done wonders for our club.
 

WetCrow1991

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Jun 23, 2016
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Imagine how much better our side would look if we didn't get f’ed over for the Tippett thing :(
Or even if we didn't have the dumb campaigners employed that thought the Tippett thing was a good idea. It was high risk, low reward. You know you have an incompetent organisation on your hands when they can't even cheat properly.
 
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Southerntakeover

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 21, 2006
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what about 22.1 (b) (ii) though.

I think that’s more relevant to the discussion. 7 is relating to membership and that up until the DGCD the AFL has its own class of membership which carries normal member rights and some bells/whistles.

The real nub of the issue it seems is 22.1 as mentioned above. Under this provision it’s the AFL who appoints Directors after consulting with the board and receiving recommendations.

It’s not clear whether the AFL is in any way bound or whether they exercise their own decision making power.

There doesn’t appear to be any convention as in the operation of our parliamentary constitution.

The fact the term consultation is inserted could lead to an inference they are not bound.

In any event it’s not ideal that the AFL has such power I don’t think
Well, no, that's not more relevant to the discussion.

The discussion began was Feenix posturing about why people are stupid for attempting to organise for voting rights. But that was based upon a misreading of the circumstance and its permanence.

That rule 22 exists now is not contentious. The point is that any right described therein remains is within the scope of 'all rights' and therefore subject to being extinguished on the DGCD. Any other reading is not only against the plain words of the agreement, but appear likely to run into significant difficulty under corporation law (i.e. to have an entity which is not a member or shareholder of a body in sole control of a body corporate).

So, the rights held by the AFL are to be extinguished within 9 years time- or earlier date if agreed, and there remains some question as to what will occur when that happens (the board can create a new class of members with appointment rights). I.e. not only should fans be attempting to organise pressure to ensure that the club turns over to democratic control, but we should be doing it now- sufficient pressure could lead to an earlier date being agreed. It's perhaps the most meaningful thing that the members can do.
 

Southerntakeover

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Feb 21, 2006
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That's a lot of words for someone apparently unaffected. Looks like the only person with a bruised chest in this thread is you :)

I guess we'll see what happens in a few years time won't we?
It would be pretty unusual for someone to get a bruised chest from watching someone tap out. We certainly can watch what happens in a few years time.

Honestly- let's see how much cash I have to blow in a few years time, but I would give very serious consideration to seeking injunctive relief if an alternative reading was attempted to be implemented as on the day.
 
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