Mystery The Valentich Disappearance

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

My understanding of the case, yes.

Basically the only logical thing that could have happened to him is the plane go down in the sea. But the government report could find nothing to support that theory.

And of course, there is nothing to support the UFO, or something along those lines, theory either.

He simply disappeared, which in today's world is a very, very hard thing to do. Especially without a trace.

Interesting then. Without the transcripts it would appear to be your logical, "No other conclusion seems possible, therefore aliens were involved," crap, but having him clearly make reference to some sort of UFO hovering over him does make for a weird case. The pessimist in me believes that he was involved in some way, shape or form - especially being a renowned UFO believer himself - but I agree that it's not easy to just disappear.

It's probably a very silly question, but is there any distinct proof that he was actually where he said he was while flying the plane? That is, is there a possibility that his flight path when he contacted air traffic control wasn't actually over Bass Strait? A crash seems the only logical solution, but that could only really be explained if he was off course, as they would have been looking in the wrong place. It would account for his disappearance, the lack of any physical evidence of a crash, and also his lies about where he was actually headed.

 

[grizzlym]

Interesting then. Without the transcripts it would appear to be your logical, "No other conclusion seems possible, therefore aliens were involved," crap, but having him clearly make reference to some sort of UFO hovering over him does make for a weird case. The pessimist in me believes that he was involved in some way, shape or form - especially being a renowned UFO believer himself - but I agree that it's not easy to just disappear.

It's probably a very silly question, but is there any distinct proof that he was actually where he said he was while flying the plane? That is, is there a possibility that his flight path when he contacted air traffic control wasn't actually over Bass Strait? A crash seems the only logical solution, but that could only really be explained if he was off course, as they would have been looking in the wrong place. It would account for his disappearance, the lack of any physical evidence of a crash, and also his lies about where he was actually headed.

I have a bunch of notes somewhere, when i was researching this, I'll see if I can find them.

The basic conclusion, and this is what people were happy to say off the record, was that he simply vanished. There is no back story, or hidden facts here.

They should have found wreckage, an oil slick, something if he'd gone into the sea. They didn't.

He could haae reall gone anywhere else.

And they could establish his position to a reasonable degree.

I don't know what happened to him. I do know that he simply appeared to vanish and no one knows how or why.

It's a truly baffling case - both for UFO people, the government and, of course the family.

 

[grizzlym]

Here's the audio exchange from the plane.

 

[grizzlym]

The same thread on Above Top Secret

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread409461/pg1

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Really strange. May have to do a bit more reading as at the minute I'm only going off of a very small amount of information.

 

[grizzlym]

Really strange. May have to do a bit more reading as at the minute I'm only going off of a very small amount of information.

Here's a good start. From the ABC.

http://blogs.abc.net.au/tasmania/2012/08/valentich-documentary-completed-.html

 

[TheKanga]

Thanks for that grizzlym, very chilling to hear that.
There is something about Valentich's voice or the way he spiels off about the UFO that doesn't sit right with me.

 

[WCErevival]

Melbourne Police received reports of a light aircraft making a mysterious landing not far from Cape Otway at the same time as Valentich's disappearance

No one really mentioning this. Perhaps he did fake his disappearance. He doesn't sound too concerned in that voice recording.

 

[grizzlym]

Thanks for that grizzlym, very chilling to hear that.
There is something about Valentich's voice or the way he spiels off about the UFO that doesn't sit right with me.

A couple of misnomers about the case too. He did file a flight plan. Was done at 5:30, just before he left.

He disappeared, or is thought to have disappeared in a section where pilot took a short cut that saved a few minutes - both areas were searched.

He simply didn't have the means, opportunity and resources to disappear with the plane. By that I mean something staged and calculated.

 

[grizzlym]

No one really mentioning this. Perhaps he did fake his disappearance. He doesn't sound too concerned in that voice recording.

Was also seen at Frankston off memory. There were 12 UFO reports that night in and about the area. I have to find my old notes.

What I meant earlier about the case being hard for UFO people is apart from the radio transmission there is no indication of UFOs being involved. There are no photos, no witnesses.

The transcript can simply - and easily - be explained as a suggestible guy who believed in the existence of UFOs and was confused because he was in danger or something.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Here's the audio exchange from the plane.

Guy just sounds like a bit of a nut IMO.

Also I think his lines seem rehearsed.

 

[van peebles]

Just added the possible explanations from the Wiki

Conventional

Several explanations have been put forward for Valentich's disappearance:

• The possibility remains that Valentich staged his own disappearance: even taking into account a trip of between 30 and 45 minutes to Cape Otway, the aircraft still had enough fuel to fly 800 kilometres;[14] despite ideal conditions, at no time was the aircraft plotted on radar, casting doubts as to whether it was ever near Cape Otway;[15] and Melbourne Police received reports of a light aircraft making a mysterious landing not far from Cape Otway at the same time as Valentich's disappearance.[15]
• Another proposed explanation[16] is that Valentich became disoriented and was flying upside down. What he thought he saw, if this were the case, would be his own aircraft's lights reflected in the water. He would then have crashed into the water. This was ruled out by aviation authorities, as the Cessna 182 has a high wing with a gravity fed fuel system, making prolonged inverted flight impossible in this model.
• In 2000 a private investigation of the incident concluded that Valentich had become disoriented and experienced engine and radio problems that caused him to crash into the sea. It further suggested that the Bass Strait's strong prevailing currents might have carried his relatively light aircraft a long distance before it finally sank.[6]
• Another proposed possibility is suicide,[17][18][19][20] although it has been suggested that he had a content lifestyle.[21]
• Brian Dunning, in a recent episode of the Skeptoid podcast has speculated that Valentich became disorientated while attempting to replicate the second of the opening sequences from the film Close Encounters of the Third Kind noting similarities in the Valentich ATC transcript and the air traffic control dialog from Close Encounters of the Third Kind.[22][23]

Unconventional


Unconventional explanations for Valentich's disappearance include speculation that the unexplained aircraft with the green light that he reported was a vehicle of some kind, which in turn either abducted Valentich or caused the destruction of his plane in some fashion.[24]
Speculation that a UFO was involved has been fueled by a number of factors, including Valentich's last transmission, in which he described the aircraft shadowing him as “hovering” and “not an aircraft”, the unexplained sounds that were heard at the end of his transmission, and a rash of UFO reports from the area.[5]

wrong
1/i lived most of this experience and was involved in the search
2/plane was sighted over otway districts and at cape otway.
3/radar wasnt used unless needed,on this nothing small flight.flight controller generally checked using radio only.unless otherwise
the upside down theory doesnt work,[gravity fed engine]
4/after being involved weather/fishing and living on the strait,the tidal pull on wreckage was well documented ,but this theory also fell over after apollo bay and otway residents spotted the plane and confirmed it had passed the lighthouse,local fishermen who have an unbeleivable knack of finding a craypot after massive bass strait storms,couldnt find anything from the plane ,[which was tubular construction to help broken pieces float should a crash occur]
5/radio was fine until the last moment of incident.
6/freds father[guido] came to cape otway every year and the family were good church going people and a tight knit family,his siblings remarked many times that fred would play games with them and wasnt afraid to be one of the kids when needed to amuse his siblings.
7/the day of the search,a rather austere looking bloke made the comment "this is the first time in history a recording of an actual ufo event has taken place"
the scientist whos name i cant recall, then said something quite amazing and eye opening about ufo's
"read the paper for the next 3 months and find out about coverups.
they will tell you a load of garbage and dress it up as facts
1/he was no good as a pilot
this has since been proved bs
2/he committed suicide
this has since been regarded as unlikely
3/he flew to another place and disappeared for unknown reasons
poppycock and extremely unlikely
4/he had a gambling problem
not one friend or family member could even keep a straight face when this was mentioned
5/ this young man dreamt for years to be a pilot,every waking moment was spent dreaming about planes.every one of his friends siad he didnt do certain things as to not jepordise his pilots career,he was a member of the raaf cadets and was seen as the best of the group
every time a fact was printed in the sun newspaper a counter story containing no fact was printed the next day.
yes i lived this story and was closely involved.
its the 3rd plane to disappear under wierd conditions in the strait.
some things that are complete BS, are now considered fact because they have been used as fact by papers for so long
last but not least a camerman took 6 photographs on the day .
these were studied by nasa and the conclusion was the object flying over the cape on the day exhibited an unbeleivable heat sauce.

 

[van peebles]

Could be a possibility especially since they never found a body or plane, i wonder what his real purpose of flying to King Island was...

lots of people including fred,would do the king island run
they would pick up lobster,at a cheap price which made the locals happy to sell for cash,
on return to melbourne,the crays would be sold for a marked up profit,most of these trips gave the pilot extra flying time which they loved and the crays paid for this hobby,bonus time

 

[TheKanga]

Guy just sounds like a bit of a nut IMO.

Also I think his lines seem rehearsed.

My thoughts exactly, while i would loved to believe he did get abducted rather than just crashed, etc.
If i was being follow by an alien craft i would be a bit more panicked and less composed.
Something about his voice sounds like he reading lines or something.

Then again i could be completely wrong.

 

[TheKanga]

Not sure where i read it now, but if Valentich did fake his own disappearance/death.
I heard he may have got inspiration from the film ''Encounters of the Third Kind''
Where I'm pretty sure plane/s are abducted by UFO's with green lights.
Interestingly this film came out the year before he went missing and he was a known UFO believer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_Encounters_of_the_Third_Kind

 

[van peebles]

Not sure where i read it now, but if Valentich did fake his own disappearance/death.
I heard he may have got inspiration from the film ''Encounters of the Third Kind''
Where I'm pretty sure plane/s are abducted by UFO's with green lights.
Interestingly this film came out the year before he went missing and he was a known UFO believer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_Encounters_of_the_Third_Kind

who said he was a ufo believer?
i spoke to his father every year at the site of the valentich memorial plate and never did his father or family and friends mention this

 

[TheKanga]

who said he was a ufo believer?
i spoke to his father every year at the site of the valentich memorial plate and never did his father or family and friends mention this

From the wiki page:

According to Guido Valentich, Frederick's father, Frederick was a "firm believer in UFOs", and, prior to his disappearance, he had "worried about attacks from UFOs"

According to an Associated Press report, Guido Valentich, the father of the missing pilot, said "he hoped his son had been taken by a UFO and had not crashed. 'The fact that they have found no trace of him presents a possibility that UFOs could have been there.'"; Guido Valentich also told the AP that "his son used to study UFOs as a hobby using information he had obtained from the air force. He was not the kind of person who would make up stories. Everything had to be very correct and positive for him.'"[2]

 

[grizzlym]

wrong
1/i lived most of this experience and was involved in the search
2/plane was sighted over otway districts and at cape otway.
3/radar wasnt used unless needed,on this nothing small flight.flight controller generally checked using radio only.unless otherwise
the upside down theory doesnt work,[gravity fed engine]
4/after being involved weather/fishing and living on the strait,the tidal pull on wreckage was well documented ,but this theory also fell over after apollo bay and otway residents spotted the plane and confirmed it had passed the lighthouse,local fishermen who have an unbeleivable knack of finding a craypot after massive bass strait storms,couldnt find anything from the plane ,[which was tubular construction to help broken pieces float should a crash occur]
5/radio was fine until the last moment of incident.
6/freds father[guido] came to cape otway every year and the family were good church going people and a tight knit family,his siblings remarked many times that fred would play games with them and wasnt afraid to be one of the kids when needed to amuse his siblings.
7/the day of the search,a rather austere looking bloke made the comment "this is the first time in history a recording of an actual ufo event has taken place"
the scientist whos name i cant recall, then said something quite amazing and eye opening about ufo's
"read the paper for the next 3 months and find out about coverups.
they will tell you a load of garbage and dress it up as facts
1/he was no good as a pilot
this has since been proved bs
2/he committed suicide
this has since been regarded as unlikely
3/he flew to another place and disappeared for unknown reasons
poppycock and extremely unlikely
4/he had a gambling problem
not one friend or family member could even keep a straight face when this was mentioned
5/ this young man dreamt for years to be a pilot,every waking moment was spent dreaming about planes.every one of his friends siad he didnt do certain things as to not jepordise his pilots career,he was a member of the raaf cadets and was seen as the best of the group
every time a fact was printed in the sun newspaper a counter story containing no fact was printed the next day.
yes i lived this story and was closely involved.
its the 3rd plane to disappear under wierd conditions in the strait.
some things that are complete BS, are now considered fact because they have been used as fact by papers for so long
last but not least a camerman took 6 photographs on the day .
these were studied by nasa and the conclusion was the object flying over the cape on the day exhibited an unbeleivable heat sauce.

Thank you for this.

You filled in a few of the gaps that I'd forgotten. Plus confirmed some of thinking re some of the theories that I'd been told i.e. disappearing on purpose, suicide etc

What is your conclusion from all of this?

As posted earlier, everyone I talked to and read about, who was involved in the case or at least educated about it, basically said, 'he just vanished".

There is no evidence to suggest what happened to him. And the complete absence of evidence is very, very hard to explain.

I'm not suggesting UFOS by any stretch - they are merely a side flavour. No, the guy just vanished and that's hard to explain, especially when a plane's involved.

 

[van peebles]

From the wiki page:

According to Guido Valentich, Frederick's father, Frederick was a "firm believer in UFOs", and, prior to his disappearance, he had "worried about attacks from UFOs"

According to an Associated Press report, Guido Valentich, the father of the missing pilot, said "he hoped his son had been taken by a UFO and had not crashed. 'The fact that they have found no trace of him presents a possibility that UFOs could have been there.'"; Guido Valentich also told the AP that "his son used to study UFOs as a hobby using information he had obtained from the air force. He was not the kind of person who would make up stories. Everything had to be very correct and positive for him.'"[2]

guido told me that his son made the comment IF i was taken by a ufo it wouldnt be as bad as crashing a plane
guido,also said this comment went into press as fact fred loved and chased all ufo stories
his friends from the raaf cadets had said the conversation centred around the stories of ufos as talked about by some people of the day,indeed as we are now discussing the subject
as i said earlier,the things now taken as gospel by the media,are things perpetuated at the time by the MEDIA

 

[van peebles]

Thank you for this.

You filled in a few of the gaps that I'd forgotten. Plus confirmed some of thinking re some of the theories that I'd been told i.e. disappearing on purpose, suicide etc

What is your conclusion from all of this?

As posted earlier, everyone I talked to and read about, who was involved in the case or at least educated about it, basically said, 'he just vanished".

There is no evidence to suggest what happened to him. And the complete absence of evidence is very, very hard to explain.

I'm not suggesting UFOS by any stretch - they are merely a side flavour. No, the guy just vanished and that's hard to explain, especially when a plane's involved.

lived on the strait my entire life
its one of the biggest ufo sighting places in the world
have sat outside,because of no telly and looked at the sky for my life
never have i seen anything resembling a ufo.
also dont believe in them
but the facts in this case are interesting

 

[grizzlym]

lived on the strait my entire life
its one of the biggest ufo sighting places in the world
have sat outside,because of no telly and looked at the sky for my life
never have i seen anything resembling a ufo.
also dont believe in them
but the facts in this case are interesting

Do you find it odd that no wreckage nor any signs of a downed plane were ever found?

 

[van peebles]

Do you find it odd that no wreckage nor any signs of a downed plane were ever found?

yes it is strange,the best eg for this
when the vessel ERIC THE RED sank,parts of the deck washed up on a deserted beach in NZ
this was due to tidal storm wash hitting bass strait from the antartic
freds plane was a new cessna type built for the alaskan canadian enviroment with tubular construction, the reason is something will always float.
on the search it was implored by every local to go inland,police rescue who are just a bunch of coppers doing thier job,with some experience dismissed all local knowledge and witness statements and centred the search on nothing but the strait.
guido i remember crying his heart out begging the police to at least listen to the locals and do a ground search.
this was ignored as soon as the man from CANBERRA appeared

 

[little graham]

Here's the audio exchange from the plane.

One moment its flying past, then its hovering above playing a game, then he cant describe it because it has such speed and immediately he goes back to saying its right above him..

Every question from the controller on what it is, brings about an answer that contradicts other answers and the end result is no description of what it is.

 

[van peebles]

best book on aussie mysteries
lights above the southern skies.
written about 1970
fact no BS
also interesting most people today think his voice and comments dont add up
at the time,most people remarked on how sensible and calm he was,because of a stable family,raaf cadets and a group of friends that were all very sensible and not fools

 

[grizzlym]

yes it is strange,the best eg for this
when the vessel ERIC THE RED sank,parts of the deck washed up on a deserted beach in NZ
this was due to tidal storm wash hitting bass strait from the antartic
freds plane was a new cessna type built for the alaskan canadian enviroment with tubular construction, the reason is something will always float.
on the search it was implored by every local to go inland,police rescue who are just a bunch of coppers doing thier job,with some experience dismissed all local knowledge and witness statements and centred the search on nothing but the strait.
guido i remember crying his heart out begging the police to at least listen to the locals and do a ground search.
this was ignored as soon as the man from CANBERRA appeared

Why go inland? Wasn't his plane sighted going away from Cape Otway?