Health The Value of Jesus/God in Your Life

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M Malice

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For those of you that are anti-propaganda this is what Dawkins actually said on the matter when asked about it by someone named Ben Stein:

Ben Stein:What do you think is the possibility that Intelligent Design might turn out to be the answer to some issues in genetics or in Darwinian evolution?
Prof Dawkins:Well it could come about in the following way. It could be that, eh, at some earlier time somewhere in the universe a civilization evolved by probably some kind of Darwinian means to a very, very, high level of technology and designed a form of life that they seeded onto perhaps this planet. Ehm, now, that is a possibility and an intriguing possibility and I suppose it’s possible that you might find evidence for that if you look at the um detail, details, of biochemistry, molecular biology, you might find a signature of some sort of designer and that designer could well be a higher intelligence from elsewhere in the universe. But that higher intelligence would itself have had to have come about by some explicable, or ultimately explicable process, he couldn’t have just jumped into existence spontaneously, that’s the point.

The nutters among us conveniently overlook that last part of Dawkins answer.

At no point does Dawkins admit there is intelligent design.
Did't you know that you don't let the facts get in the way of a good fairy tale Cryptkeeper.
 
Oct 9, 2006
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Did't you know that you don't let the facts get in the way of a good fairy tale Cryptkeeper.

I've got to stop arguing with these people. They will believe whatever is spoon fed to them and lack the intelligence and logic to think for themselves.

Once a person starts believing in things that have no evidence of existence it is pretty much impossible to reason with them.
 
Sep 6, 2005
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the point being atheists dont believe in intelligent design because thats a step to admitting in god. so the way around that is by suggesting perhaps a superior alien race etc. but we're talking the entire universe, not just planet earth. and if someone wabts to say perhaps the designer is literally a computer programmer and we're simulations...thats still god.

atheists say there is no intelligent design, just random chaos. hence dawkins admitted indeed theres intelligent design which completely destroys his viral atheistism
 

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Oct 9, 2006
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the point being atheists dont believe in intelligent design because thats a step to admitting in god. so the way around that is by suggesting perhaps a superior alien race etc. but we're talking the entire universe, not just planet earth. and if someone wabts to say perhaps the designer is literally a computer programmer and we're simulations...thats still god.

atheists say there is no intelligent design, just random chaos. hence dawkins admitted indeed theres intelligent design which completely destroys his viral atheistism

No, that is patently incorrect again.

Atheists generally don't believe in God because most of us like to have evidence to evaluate. Religion and spirituality have provided precisely no evidence for us to consider. Someone saying that they had a spiritual experience is not evidence. In thousands of years of religion and so called spirituality there is not one piece of evidence in existence that links us to a higher power. Not one. Science on the other hand provides us something to evaluate that is based on fact.

And Dawkins DID NOT admit to intelligent design and I have demonstrated this to you. He said it is an interesting possibility if based on a number of parameters and added his disclaimer which you again have conveniently overlooked for the sake of your flimsy argument. The transcript is above. Why do you continue to lie about what Dawkins said?

You're an intellectual simpleton and I am done with you.

Enjoy your ignorant existence.
 
Oct 9, 2006
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Dawkins is no authority on religion....As has been proven time & again.

That I will accept. But you need to accept that the religious seem to have a need to be the authority on everything as has been discussed in this thread at length. We have laws in this country that exist purely because the religious have forced their agenda on the entire population. Thankfully we are starting, ever so slowly to become enlightened. The fact that it took us until 2019 to have something resembling an assisted dying law is an indictment on the religious. I watched my granddad die a horribly painful and drawn out death because the Christians, good compassionate people that they are, forced their immoral belief system down our throats. They are fighting today for basic women's rights in the NSW parliament because the religious continue to demand control over what a woman does with her own body. Gays were blocked from getting married because the religious claimed ownership of the institution of marriage and decided that we all had to play by their rules.

So I make no apologies for detesting anybody who peddles this nonsense because what the religious are doing is forcing other people to adhere to their belief system. And they are doing it without having the burden of proof placed upon them which is quite frankly disgusting.
 
Feb 24, 2013
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There is no devil..no Satan.

There’s no mysterious forces hovering around us.

At the age 49..I just can’t be ####ed pondering this stuff anymore.

It’s a waste of time.

Nothing matters. Nothing is worth getting worried about. We are all going to die one day. Death is certain and after that we are dust.

There’s life and all it’s worries and anxiety..and then there’s death.

Everything else is just getting sidetracked with frivolous concerns.

This reads like something straight out of Lucretius poem On The Nature of Things, where he adumbrates upon the Epicurean philosophy of life....Where he compares & contrasts Ataraxia (A state of non-perturbedness) with the folly & angst of the Roman Forum (Rat Race) & all it represents.
 
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That I will accept. But you need to accept that the religious seem to have a need to be the authority on everything as has been discussed in this thread at length. We have laws in this country that exist purely because the religious have forced their agenda on the entire population. Thankfully we are starting, ever so slowly to become enlightened. The fact that it took us until 2019 to have something resembling an assisted dying law is an indictment on the religious. I watched my granddad die a horribly painful and drawn out death because the Christians, good compassionate people that they are, forced their immoral belief system down our throats. They are fighting today for basic women's rights in the NSW parliament because the religious continue to demand control over what a woman does with her own body. Gays were blocked from getting married because the religious claimed ownership of the institution of marriage and decided that we all had to play by their rules.

So I make no apologies for detesting anybody who peddles this nonsense because what the religious are doing is forcing other people to adhere to their belief system. And they are doing it without having the burden of proof placed upon them which is quite frankly disgusting.

One ought not to confuse dogmatism for true religion or spiritual enlightenment....There are just as many dogmatic, repressed & authoritarian atheists out there, as there are deeply conservative religious nut-bags.....That's a socially engendered state of mind.
 
I've got to stop arguing with these people. They will believe whatever is spoon fed to them and lack the intelligence and logic to think for themselves.

Once a person starts believing in things that have no evidence of existence it is pretty much impossible to reason with them.

Yes sir, whatever you say sir, you are so much smarter than me that I just can't keep up sir, please keep displaying your superiority to me.
 
I read an article once that was basically "if you've never listened to the grateful dead before, this is the introductory album you need to get you into them" the album was Terrapin Station. I thought the big 16 minute track was cool but otherwise wasn't my bag.
Interesting album, the strings on Terrapin itself are controversial. Their studio albums are mostly okay, American Beauty being the pick of the bunch imo but it's their live stuff that can be truly breathtaking. Wall of Sound, late Brent being my two Dead favourite eras.
There's a superb Terrapin Station from the late Brent era at 1'37" on this clip. I like it for the interplay between Brent on keyboards and Jerry on guitar.
 
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One ought not to confuse dogmatism for true religion or spiritual enlightenment....There are just as many dogmatic, repressed & authoritarian atheists out there, as there are deeply conservative religious nut-bags.....That's a socially engendered state of mind.


The problem I have with that though is that the atheists rarely force the religious to adhere to anything. I feel that much of important debate in society still stems from the difference in ideology but that non-believers have to continue to bend to the will of those who believe in something. And again, it comes down to evidence. If there was proof of a God, then we'd all believe. But there isn't, so we don't. Yet we still have to live with laws that are too heavily influenced by people who have zero evidence with which they can back themselves up.

When people can't die with dignity (for example) because the people making the laws are beholden to their religion then we have a problem. So, we have a problem. If the religious don't want to exercise that option then fine, that is their choice. But why should my choice be directly linked to theirs? The same goes for same sex marriage. And for abortion. The list goes on.

I can't think of a single law whereby atheists have bent the religious towards living their lives by our rules. In fact, there are specific laws that allow religious freedom. Us atheists, we have no "rules" that we want to force upon anybody. We just want to be left the hell alone. And that is the difference.
 

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Feb 24, 2013
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I can't think of a single law whereby atheists have bent the religious towards living their lives by our rules. In fact, there are specific laws that allow religious freedom. Us atheists, we have no "rules" that we want to force upon anybody. We just want to be left the hell alone. And that is the difference.

Are you forgetting about Communist dictatorships like China & Russia, in days of yore?....Where it is the State that must be obeyed & worshipped as the ultimate arbiter on all human affairs?....That scenario is qhere the State itself becomes God, rather than each man's own conscience.

Also....Last time I checked, human consciousness, our emotional state (soul) & the human spirit are all invisible.....The humanities are a field of studies prefaced upon the study of these intangibles.
 
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Are you forgetting about Communist dictatorships like China & Russia, in days of yore?....Where it is the State that must be obeyed & worshipped as the ultimate arbiter on all human affairs?....That scenario is qhere the State itself becomes God, rather than each man's own conscience.

Also....Last time I checked, human consciousness, our emotional state (soul) & the human spirit are all invisible.....The humanities are a field of studies prefaced upon the study of these intangibles.

Again, good points but was linking it directly to Australian laws given the title of the thread. How does Jesus/God play a role in my life? Well, in the ways pointed out. And I don't like it and never gave permission for it. Yet I have to live with it.

We are a secular society in name only. Our lawbook says otherwise.
 
Oct 9, 2006
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Please, tip your fedora at me.

Did laugh.

Well played sir. :thumbsu:

I am genuinely not aiming for offence but until the religious can provide any evidence at all that they are right and I am wrong then I will continue to be dismissive. Whilst I am forced to largely play their game I will always take this stance.

Remember, the onus is on the religious, not the non-believers given that we are forced to play by their rules. And despite repeatedly asking, the best anybody has come up with is taking Richard Dawkins completely out of context.

Give me some proof that there is a God, given that I have to live by too many of His rules as handed down by His followers and I will give you a hearing.

Until then though...
 
Feb 24, 2013
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Give me some proof that there is a God, given that I have to live by too many of His rules as handed down by His followers and I will give you a hearing.

Until then though...

Clearly you have a fundamental misconception over the entire concept & nature of faith.

As Plato noted, the material world/plane is under the rule & guise of the Demiurge....If you are looking for 'proofs' in that realm & on those terms, then you're never going to find it, for you are 'looking' in the wrong place.

In theological terms, it means that you have also been both blinded & seduced by the trickster, into a one-dimensional, flat plane of existence perspective.....Spat out into the existential void.
 
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Sep 6, 2005
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proof of god?
its the very aspect of the relationship between man and his dual hardcoded nature and that of god that its all about faith.
also because god is literally spirit. hes not tangible. just like you cant see the air or see bacteria. just like you cant see with your ears or taste with your eyes. the sensation of gods reality is thru your spirit.
thats where people have sensed god and had a relationship with him. its not a relationship based on touching, seeing and tasting.
 
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Clearly you have a fundamental misconception over the entire concept & nature of faith.

As Plato noted, the material world/plane is under the rule & guise of the Demiurge....If you are looking for 'proofs' in that realm & on those terms, then you're never going to find it, for you are 'looking' in the wrong place.

In theological terms, it means that you have also been both blinded & seduced by the trickster, into a one-dimensional, flat plane of existence perspective.....Spat out into the existential void.

No, I actually don’t.

I do have a problem with people of “faith” dictating how I live my life though. Your pathetic attempt to appear as some sort of intellectual is now getting right on my jimmies too.

I have a very thorough knowledge of faith and religion.

My problem stems from those who hide behind their faith whilst dictating how those who don’t believe live their lives.

That is all. There is no more for you to read into my position no matter how much drivel and doublespeak you wish to continue with.

Don’t bother replying. You are as obtuse as the emoticon moron.
 
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proof of god?
its the very aspect of the relationship between man and his dual hardcoded nature and that of god that its all about faith.
also because god is literally spirit. hes not tangible. just like you cant see the air or see bacteria. just like you cant see with your ears or taste with your eyes. the sensation of gods reality is thru your spirit.
thats where people have sensed god and had a relationship with him. its not a relationship based on touching, seeing and tasting.

And for all that you think it gives you the right to dictate how those who don’t share your faith live?

Have a look at the people of faith who stop people in love from getting married because they are of the same gender. Those of faith who want to deny a compassionate death and so on.

If you kept your faith to yourselves rather than continually projecting (forcing via legal means) it onto others then you’d face less backlash than you do.

That is the underlying issue. Nothing more, nothing less.

Insert your pathetic emoticon below.
 
Sep 6, 2005
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And for all that you think it gives you the right to dictate how those who don’t share your faith live?

Have a look at the people of faith who stop people in love from getting married because they are of the same gender. Those of faith who want to deny a compassionate death and so on.

If you kept your faith to yourselves rather than continually projecting (forcing via legal means) it onto others then you’d face less backlash than you do.

That is the underlying issue. Nothing more, nothing less.

Insert your pathetic emoticon below.
the only person dictating and bashing others on the head is you, including insulting people. everyone else on both sides is having a decent debate. pull your head outta your ass.
 

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