Opinion The Way Forward

[kickthething]

Not far off it to be honest however only two of the grand finals we were favourites in to be fair

Tbf you don’t get pumped repeatedly in Grand Finals…….its not losses per we, it’s the manner of them. Two years in a row where the game is over before half time…..

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Tbf you don’t get pumped repeatedly in Grand Finals…….its not losses per we, it’s the manner of them. Two years in a row where the game is over before half time…..

Brisbane are a horrid matchup even when we were playing well. We were lu my Daniher was the licorice all sorts one yesterday. Our defenders try but you can’t replace genuine height.

Just felt we were dumb early- man on man for the first half made more sense. Play the long game they would have tired. Instead Horse went the very risky option and it went terribly

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Maybe the ground size difference is an issue?
Other than that it was just a bad day. These things happen.

 

[TheMase]

I’d be keeping Blakey at half back. We don’t need to up end everything.

 

[Caj]

There’s one obvious move to be made, but does the club have the stomach for it, or will we stay mired in mediocrity?

 

[Swansujelly]

1/4, it's an issue.

 

[RUNVS]

The club won't move on Longmire so with that in mind we just have to hope Longmire changes and goes against 15 years of his coaching record and instead starts valuing winning the ball first, meaning he starts valuing winning the clearances and instead not just backing the players to win the turnover.

In finals we have been smashed in the clearances, especially the clean and fast clearances that allow the opposition to score easily.

Sheldrick and Adams need to play a lot next season, and they need to play in the guts. We need Longmire to start setting up more with the intention of winning the clearance rather than just winning the turnover.

 

[KingV23]

It's very common to want to turn the whole team upside down after yet another Grand Final flogging. But the truth is, we wouldn't be making Grand Finals if it were not with the team we have. I do think some changes are needed, but not to the magnitude of what is being spoken of here. A smaller and quicker forward line is definitely something I will be looking at implementing. Do away with that three tall setup. Also bringing in midfielders that can win the hardball and can win clearances. We seem to have no issues about losing clearances because we rely too much on absorbing pressure and forcing turnovers. But that doesn't stack up well against the good sides. I hope Sheldrick can get his body right because I think he can be a great addition to our midfield.

 

[Tommy221987]

When did we become the team everyone loves to hate

 

[Superstar swan]

When did we become the team everyone loves to hate

When we started ruining everyone’s grand final days

 

[RUNVS]

One thing I would suggest is that across the season PlanB hasn't been the problem. PlanA might have been.
Sydney had poor starts all season, by the standards of a team anywhere near top of the table. That suggests either the rest of the comp runs out of legs at half time (possibly something in that, most teams have to work to stay with Sydney and may tire earlier) or often PlanB works where PlanA fails.
However, on the second point, I'm not even sure what PlanA was for the GF and on that occasion PlanB never eventuated. Whatever the plan was, the players didn't seem to be on the same page - as each other or any plans.

I have been saying for a while now that the reason for our poor starts in games is pressure. Teams usually start games with the most pressure, when they are not tired, and they are highly motivated and when the opposition put us under a lot of pressure we couldn't score and they scored easily. Then over the course of a game their pressure would drop due to tiredness and that is when we were allowed to play the way we wanted to play.

The problem with that though is in finals the pressure does not drop, teams fight through the tiredness and maintain high pressure and I feared in an important game the opposition would not drop their pressure and we would not be able to play the way we want to play for basically the entire game.

If your gameplan requires the opposition to drop off in pressure, if your team can't fight through the high pressure, then it is a huge problem.

 

[Choogler]

Maybe the ground size difference is an issue?
Other than that it was just a bad day. These things happen.

This is spot-on. When WCE moved from the long narrow Subiaco to the more MCG sized Optus Oval in 2017 it was one of the major reasons we were able to win in 2018. I guess size does matter?

 

[Kbroome]

It's very common to want to turn the whole team upside down after yet another Grand Final flogging. But the truth is, we wouldn't be making Grand Finals if it were not with the team we have. I do think some changes are needed, but not to the magnitude of what is being spoken of here. A smaller and quicker forward line is definitely something I will be looking at implementing. Do away with that three tall setup. Also bringing in midfielders that can win the hardball and can win clearances. We seem to have no issues about losing clearances because we rely too much on absorbing pressure and forcing turnovers. But that doesn't stack up well against the good sides. I hope Sheldrick can get his body right because I think he can be a great addition to our midfield.

Thank you, strategic and targeted changes to add speed and pressure in the forward line will also help us stop the transition scoring that Brisbane had

 

[bungalow_bill]

Not far off it to be honest however only two of the grand finals we were favourites in to be fair

And you guys were screwed by the umps in '16

 

[RUNVS]

And you guys were screwed by the umps in '16

Yep. Would quite likely have won in 2016 if not for the umpires, not that it matters right now. We have had two terrible Grand Finals since then.

 

[Feerits Elf]

WCE moved from the long narrow Subiaco to the more MCG sized Optus Oval in 2017

It’s a bloody long commute from Perth to Princes Park every second week.

 

[Dan87]

Alright, here you go. Broad strokes and some thoughts.

1. List is overrated. We are not chock full of talent. We are cobblers with a cobbled together list with holes. Why can't we develop or attract high end KP talent?

2. Few years back Horse and Pyke put together their MO of a game plan that prioritises turnovers and kicking/ outside excellence. It's not bad, but everyone has seen it now and it affects the height/weight of the playing group. It doesn't work well when you're physically dominated which is kind of what's going to happen in GFs unless you match your opponents intensity. Why can't we match opponents intensity?

3. The playing list thinks the game plan is some rope a dope magic and they don't have to turn up in first quarters in the game- this is damning shit and well on the players. Why are the players fn coasting through like the Harlem Globetrotters?

4. We're so obsessed with discipline and playing your role not every player feels empowered to influence the game. Why are we relying on a few to do the work of many?

All these things kind of add up in their own way and in not allowing us to:

5. We can't stop opposition momentum. It's hard to do but we suck at it. Why can't we influence the game in moments we most need to?

Basically, it's a cluster fk

 

[cdcanman]

Brisbane are a horrid matchup even when we were playing well. We were lu my Daniher was the licorice all sorts one yesterday. Our defenders try but you can’t replace genuine height.

Just felt we were dumb early- man on man for the first half made more sense. Play the long game they would have tired. Instead Horse went the very risky option and it went terribly

To be fair, they have tried to find genuine size in defence. Had a real crack at Barrass, and seemingly went pretty close to getting him to agree. It’s not as if they don’t know it’s an area of weakness, but it takes 2 to tango.
Concerningly, they got torched by small and medium forwards yesterday, which they normally do a decent job of handling.
All in all, they had very few winners on the day. For the second time, Robbie Fox might’ve been your best player in a losing grand final. Immense credit to him, but yikes!
Big concerns up the other end for mine. Got to find a tall forward who can consistently impact. I don’t mind all of McDonald, Amartey and McLean, just that neither of them is good enough as a no.1 target.

 

[Angak]

From a birds eye view whilst Longmire has done an excellent job to get you guys to compete consistently, his big failing has been your method around the ball. Too often against good teams you get smashed around the ball. You can lose contested ball but your ability to strip/pressure the opposition once you've lost the initial possession let's you guys down badly.

 

[TheMase]

The club won't move on Longmire so with that in mind we just have to hope Longmire changes and goes against 15 years of his coaching record and instead starts valuing winning the ball first, meaning he starts valuing winning the clearances and instead not just backing the players to win the turnover.

In finals we have been smashed in the clearances, especially the clean and fast clearances that allow the opposition to score easily.

Sheldrick and Adams need to play a lot next season, and they need to play in the guts. We need Longmire to start setting up more with the intention of winning the clearance rather than just winning the turnover.

You know we won the clearances “count” yesterday, right?

 

[Voice of the G]

We need minor changes no need to" over react".Mc Donald to CHB I like and lets see how he goes,Bring in Cleary forward/mid field.Need a key forward that can take a mark.Not sure about Grundys last half of the season,is he injured.Where it has gone all wrong yesterday was the last half of the 2qnd quarter,We were only 7 points down and then Brisbane kicked 6 goals to nil in 12 minutes.Heeney being injured late in the 1st quarter hurt us badly as well.

 

[RUNVS]

You know we won the clearances “count” yesterday, right?

Yes, and we won it against Geelong in 2022 too, but we all know that those clearance numbers are very misleading. There are clearances where we technically get it out but it goes sideways and slowly, and there are clearances where the team gets it out with almost no pressure and is able to stream forward and kick it straight (and accurately) into the forward line.

We do a lot of the former, but the opposition in the 2022 and 2024 Grand Finals had much much cleaner and much more pure clearances than we did. It isn't just not getting the pure clearances ourselves, it is not stopping the opposition getting theirs.

 

[Ticky009]

Please tell me in the misery of yesterday's GF performance you have created repeated threads just to piss off opposition supporters. If you have, I applaud you.

The duplication of threads is part of the BF glitch we still have - and still can't find a solution to.

What occurs is after a user hits Post the application shows that its 'processing' but nothing seeming appears & it hangs so users hit Post again. This results in duplicate posts because the first one has been processed.

When will it get fixed...

 

[Downhill Skier]

You know we won the clearances “count” yesterday, right?

And according to champion data we had 4 of the top 6 players on the ground .

Sure statistically we won the clearances but surely your eyes were not looking at the game thinking we were even breaking even in the middle .

 

[TheMase]

Yes, and we won it against Geelong in 2022 too, but we all know that those clearance numbers are very misleading. There are clearances where we technically get it out but it goes sideways and slowly, and there are clearances where the team gets it out with almost no pressure and is able to stream forward and kick it straight (and accurately) into the forward line.

We do a lot of the former, but the opposition in the 2022 and 2024 Grand Finals had much much cleaner and much more pure clearances than we did. It isn't just not getting the pure clearances ourselves, it is not stopping the opposition getting theirs.

But to say clearances are ignored, not important or we got “smashed” in clearances isn’t entirely accurate.

Yes we could do better, and we can also pressure the opposition clearance, a fundamental part of our game plan than fell over yesterday (as if scrambles the ball going forward and we have the opportunity to turn it over and run into space).