The way Richmond revolutionised footy ...

[joe444]

As proud I am of my Cats' era, and the way it returned the game to being attacking and fun after the turgid Swans/Eagles rivalry, I am in awe of how Richmond has changed the game.

I am referring to that manic style of keeping the ball alive by tapping it on. At the time, quite irrationally, I hated it. It struck me as lairising.

Now, of course, everybody does it.

Questions: how do you think it came about? when did you notice it?

 

[BigVic]

The Sydney-West Coast 2005 grand final was the worst grand final ever played (excluding the one-sided grand finals). That first half was awful and dour, Paul Roos defensive footy.

Would rather see attacking footy like what Richmond and Geelong are doing instead of Paul Roos/Ross Lyon defensive tactics

 

[Captain_Bender]

Richmond invented tapping the ball on, aren't they just the greatest

 

[dean33]

Funny that in 2017 most fans bagged the way we played and said it wasn’t sustainable for success, and wasn’t the way football should be played. . And here we are 5 years later with other teams adopting the same style with varying degrees of success.

For a 3 time premiership coach I find it amazing how little respect Dimma receives. You’d think Longmire and Scott had each won 4 flags each the way the media talk them up.

 

[Bungeye]

Hawthorn were tapping the ball before Richmond. That was one of Cyril's specialties.

 

[My Tilly]

The 2017-2020 period of footy was fairly weak. The interstate teams were expected to dominate, particularly GWS. But it didn't quite work out like that. The Western Bulldogs were also predicted to go onto bigger and better things having been spoken about in the same breath as Hawthorn 2008 . . . winning a flag sooner than expected.

Really, Richmond's only concern during that period of time was Geelong. Possibly Collingwood who were up and down like a yo-yo for four years.
Geelong have since become synonymous with underachieving in September.

This is why Melbourne have a golden opportunity to cash in. They are up against pretty flaky teams these last two seasons. Get their forward line corrected, and they should have no worries heading to another grand final.

 

[BF Tiger]

The 2017-2020 period of footy was fairly weak. The interstate teams were expected to dominate, particularly GWS. But it didn't quite work out like that. The Western Bulldogs were also predicted to go onto bigger and better things having been spoken about in the same breath as Hawthorn 2008 . . . winning a flag sooner than expected.

Really, Richmond's only concern during that period of time was Geelong. Possibly Collingwood who were up and down like a yo-yo for four years.
Geelong have since become synonymous with underachieving in September.

This is why Melbourne have a golden opportunity to cash in. They are up against pretty flaky teams these last two seasons. Get their forward line corrected, and they should have no worries heading to another grand final.

Next minute… Geelong won in the strongest year ever possible.

 

[Daka]

The 2017-2020 period of footy was fairly weak. The interstate teams were expected to dominate, particularly GWS. But it didn't quite work out like that. The Western Bulldogs were also predicted to go onto bigger and better things having been spoken about in the same breath as Hawthorn 2008 . . . winning a flag sooner than expected.

Really, Richmond's only concern during that period of time was Geelong. Possibly Collingwood who were up and down like a yo-yo for four years.
Geelong have since become synonymous with underachieving in September.

This is why Melbourne have a golden opportunity to cash in. They are up against pretty flaky teams these last two seasons. Get their forward line corrected, and they should have no worries heading to another grand final.

Weak? we beat you guys also we beat a Crows team who favorites & most people thought would beat us. this was before the camp too.

 

[My Tilly]

Next minute… Geelong won in the strongest year ever possible.

Hardly.
As I said in my post above, it's pretty weak this season. Geelong are finals flops. Even if they do win in week one, you watch them do everything possible to hand it away it the prelim.

Weak? we beat you guys also we beat a Crows team who favorites & most people thought would beat us. this was before the camp too.

Yeh but Adelaide did what in 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021 or 2022?

 

[mighty tiges]

As proud I am of my Cats' era, and the way it returned the game to being attacking and fun after the turgid Swans/Eagles rivalry, I am in awe of how Richmond has changed the game.

I am referring to that manic style of keeping the ball alive by tapping it on. At the time, quite irrationally, I hated it. It struck me as lairising.

Now, of course, everybody does it.

Questions: how do you think it came about? when did you notice it?

As far as Richmond goes:
1) In 2016, our gamestyle was slow and terrible. We went backwards, sideways and all up nowhere. We dropped to finish 13th. Virtually all the assistant coaches of that year were removed and new ones brought in to surround Hardwick with new ideas and fresh tactical nouse. Blake Caracella played a key role in the new gameplan.
2) Necessity once again became the mother of all invention. We tried playing a second tall alongside Jack but Ben Griffiths and Todd Elton were flops. So Hardwick and the MC dumped that idea and went with one key forward in Jack Riewoldt surrounded by Josh Caddy as a midsized marking target with 3 quick small pressure forwards (Butler, Castagna and D.Rioli). Jacob Townsend was a late addition as a defensive forward on the main opposition defensive interceptor (he just happened to kick a lot of goals too when he came into the side).
3) I would say we also took aspects of the 2016 Bulldogs and evolved it to suit us.
4) Add to that it was a way of countering the Hawthorn's precision kicking maintain possession gamestyle that other sides were trying to copy at the time. So we'd press up and apply pressure to opposition rebounding defenders and defensive mids to force errors and turnover the ball in the forward half. Then fight like hell to win the ball and get it forward any way how at ground level with taps and knock ons before the opposition could flood back in numbers. In 2017, we often deliberately kicked to the forward pockets away from the opposition interceptors aiming for forward stoppages (throw-ins especially) as a defensive as well as offensive measure. Oppositions couldn't intercept and rebound and hurt us the other way. We'd set up behind the ball to keep it inside F50 and gain repeat entries until we scored.

As far as noticing it, it was clear we were trying something new within the first couple of rounds of 2017 even while playing with the failed second key forward. It became obvious once the switch was made from the 2nd key forward to having the 3 "amigos" as they were nicknamed in 2017.

It was modified again for 2019 after we lost the 2018 Prelim. We needed another quality key forward (Lynch) and played two ruckmen (Soldo added) after both areas were exposed. It was the end of Caddy and Townsend up forward while Butler's form dropped away and Grigg's days as a "2nd ruck" ended when he retired midseason allowing us to pick up Pickett in the MSD. We also had to adjust defensively to Rance doing his ACL in round 1 of that year and never playing again. So the 2019 and 2020 premiership teams were more conventional in their team structure on paper (2 key forwards, backs and rucks) but we still played with that manic style we had perfected.

 

[Back One Out]

I am in awe of how Richmond has changed the game: that manic style of keeping the ball alive by tapping it on.
Questions: how do you think it came about? when did you notice it?

I first really noticed this style of play during Hawthorn's 3peat (2013-2015) when our mids (Lewis, Hodge, Birchall, Burgoyne, Shiels, Hill) and particularly our forwards (Cyril, Roughie, Poppy and Breust) kept the ball alive & moving forwards with deft skilful tap-ons.

It was quicker and more effective than trying to taking possession in 50/50 contested situations (where you ran the risk of getting caught or dispossessed)

Cyril was the master of this skill, just like his uncle Michael Long. He probably learned it from him. I used to laugh at Cyril's critics who bagged his low possession numbers when I reflected back on the goals & scoring opportunities he helped set up with a quick & precise tap-ons.

Hardwick identified this clever & creative play by the Hawks and instilled it in his Richmond teams. The Tigers took it to another level in terms of frequency, but they were not the originators. Laughable for anyone to say the Tigers "invented" tap ons.

 

[joe444]

I disagree, CC, with this 'weak'/'strong' analysis of eras.

As for BOO's suggestion that Hawthorn originated it, I honestly did not see it at the time. What I am certain of is that Geelong, for all their flair, were not doing it in their era beforehand.

 

[SSSSSS]

I first really noticed this style of play during Hawthorn's 3peat (2013-2015) when Lewis, Hodge, Birchall, Burgoyne, Shiels, Hill, Cyril, Roughie, Poppy and Breust kept the ball alive with quick skilful tap-ons. It was quicker and more effective than taking possession in 50/50 contested situations and getting caught or dispossessed.

Hardwick identified this play by the Hawks and instilled it in his Richmond teams.
The Tigers took it to another level but they were the originators.

Kicked plenty of goals like this during our threepeat era. Poppy was very underrated with his tap ons.

 

[Osho]

Richmond invented tapping the ball on, aren't they just the greatest

ROAR!
Captain Blood DID invent the drop punt though, didn't he?

 

[Osho]

Ben Griffiths and Todd Elton

Ben Elton...whatever happened to him? Did Ricky Gervais usurp him?

 

[Osho]

As far as Richmond goes:
1) In 2016, our gamestyle was slow and terrible. We went backwards, sideways and all up nowhere. We dropped to finish 13th. Virtually all the assistant coaches of that year were removed and new ones brought in to surround Hardwick with new ideas and fresh tactical nouse. Blake Caracella played a key role in the new gameplan.
2) Necessity once again became the mother of all invention. We tried playing a second tall alongside Jack but Ben Griffiths and Todd Elton were flops. So Hardwick and the MC dumped that idea and went with one key forward in Jack Riewoldt surrounded by Josh Caddy as a midsized marking target with 3 quick small pressure forwards (Butler, Castagna and D.Rioli). Jacob Townsend was a late addition as a defensive forward on the main opposition defensive interceptor (he just happened to kick a lot of goals too when he came into the side).
3) I would say we also took aspects of the 2016 Bulldogs and evolved it to suit us.
4) Add to that it was a way of countering the Hawthorn's precision kicking maintain possession gamestyle that other sides were trying to copy at the time. So we'd press up and apply pressure to opposition rebounding defenders and defensive mids to force errors and turnover the ball in the forward half. Then fight like hell to win the ball and get it forward any way how at ground level with taps and knock ons before the opposition could flood back in numbers. In 2017, we often deliberately kicked to the forward pockets away from the opposition interceptors aiming for forward stoppages (throw-ins especially) as a defensive as well as offensive measure. Oppositions couldn't intercept and rebound and hurt us the other way. We'd set up behind the ball to keep it inside F50 and gain repeat entries until we scored.

As far as noticing it, it was clear we were trying something new within the first couple of rounds of 2017 even while playing with the failed second key forward. It became obvious once the switch was made from the 2nd key forward to having the 3 "amigos" as they were nicknamed in 2017.

It was modified again for 2019 after we lost the 2018 Prelim. We needed another quality key forward (Lynch) and played two ruckmen (Soldo added) after both areas were exposed. It was the end of Caddy and Townsend up forward while Butler's form dropped away and Grigg's days as a "2nd ruck" ended when he retired midseason allowing us to pick up Pickett in the MSD. We also had to adjust defensively to Rance doing his ACL in round 1 of that year and never playing again. So the 2019 and 2020 premiership teams were more conventional in their team structure on paper (2 key forwards, backs and rucks) but we still played with that manic style we had perfected.

Terrif summation.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

As proud I am of my Cats' era, and the way it returned the game to being attacking and fun after the turgid Swans/Eagles rivalry, I am in awe of how Richmond has changed the game.

I am referring to that manic style of keeping the ball alive by tapping it on. At the time, quite irrationally, I hated it. It struck me as lairising.

Now, of course, everybody does it.

Questions: how do you think it came about? when did you notice it?

Fadge PJays PhatBoy will be fuming you posted this. Seething.

I think there was more to the unique(at the time) style that Richmond employed than simply tapping the ball on. But the team did aim to get the ball going forward any way they could, and then surge. A big part of it was we had some very quick tall defenders in Grimes and Rance who could be left without extras troops to cover them so long as the ball was put under pressure, so we could surge extra troops into our forward zone.

I used to liken our forward 50 to being like invading Afghanistan for the opposition….you could enter the area with as many troops as you wanted no trouble…..but good luck getting out. Which of course was the reason the stand rule in particular was introduced, because teams struggled to advance the ball against us.

To be fair I found the Hawks precision kicking game good to watch, because they mostly moved the ball quickly, and when the advanced the ball they moved it very quickly. I don’t really think you can be a top class team without having a consistent reliable way to advance the ball rapidly.

I loved watching Collingwood play against Melbourne Friday night. Obviously they tackled brilliantly, but they applied ferocious pressure and in the second half the Demons couldn’t break them down. I just think when push comes to shove, it is preferable to watch a team applying huge pressure to their opponent and going forward at all costs with the ball to watching a team try to own the football at all costs. Teams who apply great pressure and try to get the ball forward have always tended to do well in finals, since I have ever watched footy(early 70’s,) and I suspect long before that, although there have been some teams succeed with fussier playing styles.

 

[nut]

Yeh but Adelaide did what in 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021 or 2022?

They went camping

 

[nut]

I first really noticed this style of play during Hawthorn's 3peat (2013-2015) when our mids (Lewis, Hodge, Birchall, Burgoyne, Shiels, Hill) and particularly our forwards (Cyril, Roughie, Poppy and Breust) kept the ball alive & moving forwards with deft skilful tap-ons.

It was quicker and more effective than trying to taking possession in 50/50 contested situations (where you ran the risk of getting caught or dispossessed)

Cyril was the master of this skill, just like his uncle Michael Long. He probably learned it from him. I used to laugh at Cyril's critics who bagged his low possession numbers when I reflected back on the goals & scoring opportunities he helped set up with a quick & precise tap-ons.

Hardwick identified this clever & creative play by the Hawks and instilled it in his Richmond teams. The Tigers took it to another level in terms of frequency, but they were not the originators. Laughable for anyone to say the Tigers "invented" tap ons.

Agree … I’d also add the hawks were the best kicking team … in that they took huge risks with their kicking, and it paid off.

 

[Fadge]

Next minute… Geelong won in the strongest year ever possible.

Nah, the poster is right.

Still a very weak era.

How else do you explain a team finishing 17th one year, and following up the next year with a (minimum) 11 game winning streak and likely top 4 position.

In relative terms, Cats 2007 to 2011 so much stronger than the current version, and similarly the Pies 2010/11 much better than today's team. And these teams could be your 2022 Grand Finalists.

 

[blaisee]

As proud I am of my Cats' era, and the way it returned the game to being attacking and fun after the turgid Swans/Eagles rivalry, I am in awe of how Richmond has changed the game.

I am referring to that manic style of keeping the ball alive by tapping it on. At the time, quite irrationally, I hated it. It struck me as lairising.

Now, of course, everybody does it.

Questions: how do you think it came about? when did you notice it?

It was driven by personnel

We had drafted alot of dynamic ballistic players that were competitors.

The game plan was pretty simple just get it forward as quick as possible to give Dusty as many one on ne chances as possible

Watching the pies now reminds me so much of us in 2017

 

[Fadge]

Fadge PJays PhatBoy will be fuming you posted this. Seething.

Why?

It's not at all an opinion that Richmond in their era were any better that the better teams of other eras, just that they approached it differently.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Funny that in 2017 most fans bagged the way we played and said it wasn’t sustainable for success, and wasn’t the way football should be played. . And here we are 5 years later with other teams adopting the same style with varying degrees of success.

For a 3 time premiership coach I find it amazing how little respect Dimma receives. You’d think Longmire and Scott had each won 4 flags each the way the media talk them up.

It's because he's a whinging flog!

 

[Stottzy]

Hawthorn had certain players such as Cyril, Poppy and to a degree Breust who were masters of the tapping on and playing manic football, but our game plan was definitely precision kicking and run. Richmond have basically 90% of their team who do it all over the ground and it is the core to their game plan. Not entirely sure if it was great for footy though when multiple teams tried to adopt it.

 

[Overhang]

I do agree with others that Hawthorn during the 3peat really introduced this strategy, I remember being quite frustrated about the amount of balls they would knock on blindly that looked like complete luck if they favored a Hawks player but yet time and time again it did so there was obvious method to the madness. Richmond seemed to take it it to a whole new level though, I think it's because the waves they ran in often meant they had the numerical advantage around the ball to be able to win random tap on's and even if they didn't win it they had recruited and developed the mosquito fleet that would instantly apply manic pressure to the ball carrier.

Now every side has added an element of it to their game. One thing I've noticed creeping in is players seem to be really homing in on the skill of scooping with a closed fist, this isn't just a tap on but players seem to be getting away with a closed fist volley ball like scoop.