Current The Western Australian Current Trials Thread

[Bunnie]

One of the posters out there had an extensive dosier on prison life with the accused. He deleted it. I wish I'd kept it! But yeah. Things aren't doing too good at Club Shangrilah!

Just quietly, I think our boy has long since forgotten about Ivan Milat's raid. I reckon after 20 plus years, I reckon he would have thought he'd gotten away with it. I reckon he would have bought his stash back or at least visited it a few times. Quite frankly, I'm surprised he hasn't written to the police to boast how clever he's been in evading them so long. After all, what's the point of being infamous, if no one knows who you are?

I think after 20 years CSK may totally dissociate himself with that part of his life, to the point where he believes and can project that belief to others that it wasn't him. I feel he may have dark flashbacks that both disturbs and excites him and he pushes these down as it does not hold true to the persona he created and maintained in his married life. He must have been a a very insular person to be around. Kind of person that tries to be like reflective tinted windows. Unless he was looking at becoming active again or at a crisis point in his life then he may be repressing to a point where he rarely gets flashbacks at all now. I would think that with this blowing wide open and him being forced to reconnect with that person 20 years ago he would be an interesting person to observe and wait for the dam walls to crack.

 

[Dan Baker]

With discussion about plastic coated cable Im going with strangulation but that would be quite difficult inside the car.
Big gouges the perps face? External abduction?
With police forensics testing taxis it suggests at least one the victims got in the car?

One punch deaths show us that one unexpected hit is all it takes to down someone fast. A hit and drag off into the dark would be quicker than we imagine. Ted Bundy managed to kill at least 30 women that way, possibly even more. I think CSK had a Bundy element to his MO (which i said in the last thread that was closed for comment).

• serial killers are more likely to act alone (Kraemer, Lord & Heilbrun 2004)
• serial killers most commonly use strangulation or beating as a means of killing (Kraemer, Lord & Heilbrun 2004)

 

[Bunnie]

With discussion about plastic coated cable Im going with strangulation but that would be quite difficult inside the car.
Big gouges the perps face? External abuduction?
With police forensics testing taxis it suggests at least one the victims got in the car?

They definitely were in cars. ..maybe just not conscious when the were in them. Police tested taxis in response to the rising hysteria over the idea that all of these girls disappeared when they were leaving Claremont and looking to catch taxis.

Really only 2 ways he could have girls in his car to take them to his spot
1) blitz/bashed snatch, grab tie and stuff into back of car between seat and floor (constricted space so would be hard to wriggle and roll if you are tired up and throw in on your stomach) cover and drive off - similar MO he used in Karrakatta rape. For this to work,his car would be parked in the shadows, his spot need to be close by, or he had hit the girls so hard the were down. Still think he used this approach at least once, and perhaps the cemetery again as police had no yet linked the KK rape to him.
2) convinced/charmed her to get in, drives her part of the way until he comes to a deserted section then backhand to the face to stun....our maybe I'll drop you, just have to stop at this telstra thing on the way, get something out of back seat (behind her) blitz with cable from behind. Stuff, tie cover into backseat of car (that spot between seat and floor tgat we used to hide to get into free at the drive ins soother cars had no chance of seeing them in the car) and off to his spot.

 

[Molly Dooker]

With discussion about plastic coated cable Im going with strangulation but that would be quite difficult inside the car.
Big gouges the perps face? External abduction?
With police forensics testing taxis it suggests at least one the victims got in the car?

I think it likely that the victims were lured into the car and then a surprise blow to the back of the head, with an object like a large hammer, rendered them unconscious. If CG was found clothed and JR not, my feeling is that the initial blow to CG's head was so severe that it lead to her immediate death. Just my opinion.

• serial killers are more likely to act alone (Kraemer, Lord & Heilbrun 2004)
• serial killers most commonly use strangulation or beating as a means of killing (Kraemer, Lord & Heilbrun 2004)

[/Q

 

[sprockets]

Weekends are when people go out late, usually drinking. Long weekends even more so. Nothing to see there.

I think he's disguised his car as a taxi, possibly with removable (magnetic) signs and top light. No-one would notice anything suspicious, including the girls, who'd jump straight in.

 

[Molly Dooker]

Weird, I accidentally inserted my comment into the quote. Must pay better attention next time.

 

[Dan Baker]

One of the posters out there had an extensive dosier on prison life with the accused. He deleted it. I wish I'd kept it! But yeah. Things aren't doing too good at Club Shangrilah!

Just quietly, I think our boy has long since forgotten about Ivan Milat's raid. I reckon after 20 plus years, I reckon he would have thought he'd gotten away with it. I reckon he would have bought his stash back or at least visited it a few times. Quite frankly, I'm surprised he hasn't written to the police to boast how clever he's been in evading them so long. After all, what's the point of being infamous, if no one knows who you are?

I have a feeling he doesn't have any crime trophies anywhere his addresses. There must be a new place? It may not have been visited for years? Where would it be? In an unused building? Stashed at someone's house unbeknown to them?

That unused building at the rear of Karrakatta was a good example. Stash it in the hollow walls as happened in the Karrakatta building.

 

[GreyCrow]

Weekends are when people go out late, usually drinking. Long weekends even more so. Nothing to see there.

I think he's disguised his car as a taxi, possibly with removable (magnetic) signs and top light. No-one would notice anything suspicious, including the girls, who'd jump straight in.

Agreed. There is no ritualization using degrees of latitude/longitude, there are no KMs from GPO, there are no ''closest Telstra box'' there are no seventh son of a seventh son, nor are there star signs nor any other wacky voodoo stuff.

Like the jogger killer he more than likely did it while angry at an ex, then he stopped being angry.

If it was about ritualization then there would have been more murders that the police would have connected.

My 2c

 

[Dan Baker]

Early speculation was with the large scale testing of taxis, there was rumour the lot had been done in the back of a UBD Street directory.
Jane being directly south the GPO has some relevance under the current circumstances and of course that initial forum users that came out in the Gary Hughes blog I think it was about the bodies being either side of the Claremont hotel.
Police have stated that the bodies were deliberately placed as per news reference a few pages back.

• serial killers usually premeditate their crimes, frequently fantasising and planning with detail, including the specific victim (Ressler, Burgess & Douglas 1988)
• serial killers are likely to use similar event locations (but different physical locations) for their crimes, move the body from one location to another and dispose of the body in remote locations (Kraemer, Lord & Heilbrun 2004).

A General Post Office was proclaimed in St Georges Terrace in 1835, and in 1841 a Postmaster General was appointed.[1] The colonial Posts and Telegraph Department took over control of Perth's telegraph services in 1871, and telephone services in 1889.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Post_Office,_Perth

 

[Dan Baker]

Weekends are when people go out late, usually drinking. Long weekends even more so. Nothing to see there.

I think he's disguised his car as a taxi, possibly with removable (magnetic) signs and top light. No-one would notice anything suspicious, including the girls, who'd jump straight in.

Totally agree. He knew there would be a good chance his victims would visit their water holes on the long weekend.

Police might be trying to keep it simple too. Don't complicate the case. Do what can be done for now. A bad guy in prison is a bad guy in prison. If he is found guilty by jury. The community is safe?

Australia Day Weekend, Western Australia Day, St Patricks day weekend.

• serial killers usually premeditate their crimes, frequently fantasising and planning with detail, including the specific victim (Ressler, Burgess & Douglas 1988)
• serial killers are likely to use similar event locations (but different physical locations) for their crimes, move the body from one location to another and dispose of the body in remote locations (Kraemer, Lord & Heilbrun 2004).

"1995 Feb 12 Teenager abducted in Rowe Park, tied with electrical flex and raped at Karrakatta Cemetery. "

 

[Kurve]

One of the posters out there had an extensive dosier on prison life with the accused. He deleted it. I wish I'd kept it! But yeah. Things aren't doing too good at Club Shangrilah!

Just quietly, I think our boy has long since forgotten about Ivan Milat's raid. I reckon after 20 plus years, I reckon he would have thought he'd gotten away with it. I reckon he would have bought his stash back or at least visited it a few times. Quite frankly, I'm surprised he hasn't written to the police to boast how clever he's been in evading them so long. After all, what's the point of being infamous, if no one knows who you are?

Me too, I'd like to see it. They can't stop prisoners from gossipping to their visitors so it's inevitable stories are going to come out of Hakea. That the stories are he's difficult to manage doesn't really surprise me, he's playing the game. It's the opposite though of what people who thought they knew him said he was.

Unlike other high profile arrests, they're still being so tight with what information goes out. They can't be finished building the brief but their next presser (and there has to be one!) is going to be really interesting. There's always, always more to the story!

 

[Bunnie]

Me too, I'd like to see it. They can't stop prisoners from gossipping to their visitors so it's inevitable stories are going to come out of Hakea. That the stories are he's difficult to manage doesn't really surprise me, he's playing the game. It's the opposite though of what people who thought they knew him said he was.

Unlike other high profile arrests, they're still being so tight with what information goes out. They can't be finished building the brief but their next presser (and there has to be one!) is going to be really interesting. There's always, always more to the story!

I think the silence is due to an agreement with police and medua that this guy is the real deal and they cannot risk him getting off on a technicality. Media are not digging any past up...no old friends, no school buddies, no family, nothing for statements or reports. The silence is deafening and a little bizarre given how good our media is at turning a pimple into a tumour.

 

[Bunnie]

D

Early speculation was with the large scale testing of taxis, there was rumour the lot had been done in the back of a UBD Street directory.
Jane being directly south the GPO has some relevance under the current circumstances and of course that initial forum users that came out in the Gary Hughes blog I think it was about the bodies being either side of the Claremont hotel.
Police have stated that the bodies were deliberately placed as per news reference a few pages back.

• serial killers usually premeditate their crimes, frequently fantasising and planning with detail, including the specific victim (Ressler, Burgess & Douglas 1988)
• serial killers are likely to use similar event locations (but different physical locations) for their crimes, move the body from one location to another and dispose of the body in remote locations (Kraemer, Lord & Heilbrun 2004).

A General Post Office was proclaimed in St Georges Terrace in 1835, and in 1841 a Postmaster General was appointed.[1] The colonial Posts and Telegraph Department took over control of Perth's telegraph services in 1871, and telephone services in 1889.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Post_Office,_Perth

Deliberately placed may not refer to location. It may refer to how the were laid face down, near a tree clump, or bits he included in the same sort of shallow grave. It seems a lot of people have put far more time, thought, and research into body placement than he did.

 

[Bunnie]

Was just about to delete my comment. It's all a bit suss, I'm wondering why this person didn't previously mention his friendship with the family and the timing of his appearance in public forums. He's not going to be for the prosecution ...

Ok i will delete my quote.

 

[Bunnie]

Ok i will delete my quote.

Damn....just deleted I'll say it again. He says his brother is innocent and i can't see how that could be unless his DNA went out and partied without him.

 

[Kurve]

Damn....just deleted I'll say it again. He says his brother is innocent and i can't see how that could be unless his DNA went out and partied without him.

My apologies Bunnie ... I'll leave it at that. The mods will take it down if there's anything wrong.

 

[Dan Baker]

D
Deliberately placed may not refer to location. It may refer to how the were laid face down, near a tree clump, or bits he included in the same sort of shallow grave. It seems a lot of people have put far more time, thought, and research into body placement than he did.

Yeah, if it was 10 metres either way, I would say its rubbish, but its not. Jane is more accurate than a GPS (within a metre over 35 kms of curvature by hand) and the Hotel bang on.
In the night, there probably had to be a handheld GPS to have the location.

In this case the GPO is the old PMG which is the Telstra building pre telecom. Its the centre of Perth.
Police are saying the bodies placed deliberately and I haven't heard anything to suggest they were laid any way special. It was where they were left.
That will come out in the court case, maybe.

• serial killers usually premeditate their crimes, frequently fantasising and planning with detail, including the specific victim (Ressler, Burgess & Douglas 1988)
• serial killers are likely to use similar event locations (but different physical locations) for their crimes, move the body from one location to another and dispose of the body in remote locations (Kraemer, Lord & Heilbrun 2004).

 

[Dan Baker]

My apologies Bunnie ... I'll leave it at that. The mods will take it down if there's anything wrong.

A witness knows the accused, but didn't recognise the car or the occupant. If it is true, that is a mess. Especially if there were 3 standing at the bus stop. Even the witness will be bias.

 

[AAACockburn]

A witness knows the accused, but didn't recognise the car or the occupant. If it is true, that is a mess. Especially if there were 3 standing at the bus stop. Even the witness will be bias.

I know, you would not even see this on Jerry Springer.

 

[Dan Baker]

I know, you would not even see this on Jerry Springer.

Its a job for Judge Judy I say!

 

[Bunnie]

A witness knows the accused, but didn't recIognise the car or the occupant. If it is true, that is a mess. Especially if there were 3 standing at the bus stop. Even the witness will be bias.

No... the 'witness' NOW knows the accused's brother... doesn't know the accused and didn't know his brother then. No mess. No fuss, just the quirks of living in Perth where the degrees of separation are small.

FWIW eye witness testimony is always hazy at best due to the massive variance you can get in recall between two witnesses who saw the same event. Trust the DNA more than eye wutnesses trying to recall a stranger they saw 20 years ago.

Edit: however.... if you think about the peculiarity of the brother of an alleged serial killer now being friends with a witness who made a statement of what he saw that night.....well.... hmmmm..... who sought who out? Is our witness attention seeking and trying to stay connected and relevant? Is our brother seeking inside info? Or is it just Perth coincidence?

*runs and hides before she cops a smack for stirring up the conspiracy theorists*

 

[Fish breath]

The "taxi" theory makes a certain amount of sense to me but so does the cop (including undercover cop) theory. That's all fine. A girl is more likely to get into a stranger's car with those props. And yet, I still can't reconcile that theory with JR. On the face of it, the perp was known to her. Her face lit up when she saw mystery man - who the police think is the perp - on CCTV. Further JRs sister says JR doesn't wanna leave when her friends do. For all intents and purposes, JR is expecting to meet up with someone she knows. She does - just not the kind of special she has in mind. Point is, JR is number 1 in a series of 3 is not a stranger to the victim. There is no need for a taxi. Indeed, it would probably look suss to Jane if he asked her to get into a taxi & he was the driver. Perhaps this is the exception to the rule but it seems awfully sophisticated to run the taxi theory. A fake taxi for one girl but not for others? The other thing to remember is that none of the early sexual assaults involved a fake taxi. It's possible but a lot of hard work. Also, wouldn't someone notice? Another cab driver would notice would notice if someone was trying to pinch his fare? You could run into fellow employees. How would you explain the plates? Maybe this is all explainable but I keep getting back with Jane Rimmer was not meeting with a stranger that night. Mystery man didn't need a fake taxi to get her into a car. Perhaps he didn't need a fake taxi to get any of them into his car. Perhaps he used deceit and his charm - and then a hammer? Just my view, anyway. Apart from anything else, the cops intensively investigated the taxi theory and got a prime suspect that is someone other than our person of interest. Maybe they are right?.

 

[Kurve]

A witness knows the accused, but didn't recognise the car or the occupant. If it is true, that is a mess. Especially if there were 3 standing at the bus stop. Even the witness will be bias.

Witness didn't say he knew the accused only the brother and he may have sought him out to 'friend' fairly recently but it isn't showing up as a recent friendship on SM. He also said he hadn't hidden being a friend of the brother, maybe he didn't but it doesn't seem to me he was upfront about it either until he had him in the pub.

Edit: The witness only knew the brother for about two years What a coincidence

I know, you would not even see this on Jerry Springer.

Macro investigation has got that incesty feelz about it

 

[Dan Baker]

Witness didn't say he knew the accused only the brother and he may have sought him out to 'friend' fairly recently but it isn't showing up as a recent friendship on SM. He also said he hadn't hidden being a friend of the brother, maybe he didn't but it doesn't seem to me he was upfront about it either until he had him in the pub.
Edit: The witness only knew the brother for about two years What a coincidence
Macro investigation has got that incesty feelz about it

Heres hyperthetical.
Your sister is murdered.
The accused's brother befriends a key witness.
What would Judge Judy do?
How does that make you feel?

 

[Dan Baker]

Did the current POI have a school psychologist? Maybe police are keeping it simple?

Lock it in Eddie!!! Then one day....

The "taxi" theory makes a certain amount of sense to me but so does the cop (including undercover cop) theory. That's all fine. A girl is more likely to get into a stranger's car with those props. And yet, I still can't reconcile that theory with JR. On the face of it, the perp was known to her. Her face lit up when she saw mystery man - who the police think is the perp - on CCTV. Further JRs sister says JR doesn't wanna leave when her friends do. For all intents and purposes, JR is expecting to meet up with someone she knows. She does - just not the kind of special she has in mind. Point is, JR is number 1 in a series of 3 is not a stranger to the victim. There is no need for a taxi. Indeed, it would probably look suss to Jane if he asked her to get into a taxi & he was the driver. Perhaps this is the exception to the rule but it seems awfully sophisticated to run the taxi theory. A fake taxi for one girl but not for others? The other thing to remember is that none of the early sexual assaults involved a fake taxi. It's possible but a lot of hard work. Also, wouldn't someone notice? Another cab driver would notice would notice if someone was trying to pinch his fare? You could run into fellow employees. How would you explain the plates? Maybe this is all explainable but I keep getting back with Jane Rimmer was not meeting with a stranger that night. Mystery man didn't need a fake taxi to get her into a car. Perhaps he didn't need a fake taxi to get any of them into his car. Perhaps he used deceit and his charm - and then a hammer? Just my view, anyway. Apart from anything else, the cops intensively investigated the taxi theory and got a prime suspect that is someone other than our person of interest. Maybe they are right?.