Current The Western Australian Current Trials Thread

[craigos]

Relevant as players in an inept investigation spanning twenty plus years. It's not the job of the defence to prove a case against an alternative, it's to create doubt and if the DNA evidence against BRE falls down for any reason or is determined inadmissable, without any other hard evidence against BRE (we haven't got a clue what that might be or if there's any at this point) the previous suspects might not be so 'cleared'.

But they can't point to persons 'x,y and z's' treatment as reason why their client didn't do it. They can point to flaws in the investigation/evidence against their own client but the other information is irrelevant. All the prosecution would have to say is that "it was a tactic" used to try and out someone else, no relevance to the accused at all.

 

[Kurve]

But they can't point to persons 'x,y and z's' treatment as reason why their client didn't do it. They can point to flaws in the investigation/evidence against their own client but the other information is irrelevant. All the prosecution would have to say is that "it was a tactic" used to try and out someone else, no relevance to the accused at all.

All the information gathered through the course of the investigation is relevant and the defence is free to draw on all of it, including if a Macro detective was shagging one of the victims relatives for example, if the stench of impropriety will advantage their client. The prosecution will object, that's what they do and the judge will rule but hey, the jury already heard it.

 

[sprockets]

The DNA evidence won't fall down because apparently they've matched it to at least a couple of the incidents - the Karakatta and Glennon ones. Where DNA may not come into play is with Jane Rimmer, so they'll be looking for strong evidence other than DNA to connect her to the others.

 

[craigos]

All the information gathered through the course of the investigation is relevant and the defence is free to draw on all of it, including that a Macro detective was shagging one of the victims relatives for example, if the stench of impropriety will advantage their client. The prosecution will object, that's what they do and the judge will rule but hey, the jury already heard it.

Wot? So they'd allege that it was a conspiracy, but they were lazy as f*ck and took a couple of decades to get around to the stitch up?
I really hope you're never on a jury that decides someone fate.

 

[craigos]

The DNA evidence won't fall down because apparently they've matched it to at least a couple of the incidents - the Karakatta and Glennon ones. Where DNA may not come into play is with Jane Rimmer, so they'll be looking for strong evidence other than DNA to connect her to the others.

Source?

 

[Kurve]

Wot? So they'd allege that it was a conspiracy, but they were lazy as f*ck and took a couple of decades to get around to the stitch up?
I really hope you're never on a jury that decides someone fate.

Your first comment makes no sense whatsoever in relation to what I actually said. Neither does your second but I don't sit on juries anyway, so there ya go.

 

[Kurve]

Interesting for anybody curious about the wives of serial killers and asking 'how could they not know?'
Some insight into their husbands habits.

http://listverse.com/2013/03/19/10-baffling-wives-of-serial-killers/

 

[sprockets]

Source?

It's everywhere but here's just one:

"Last week, police claimed they had found a DNA match between the dropped silk kimono, the Karrakatta rape and the last murder in the Claremont serial killings of Ciara Glennon."

http://www.news.com.au/national/cou...s/news-story/44d3d60b4c894e632bb30a23a11bc787

 

[Dan Baker]

The distance between the GPO and the two bodies are nowhere near the same according to the above pic and according to the following picture, "Body accuracy not confirmed". Is this the same source that suggests the bodies were within a metre of each other north and south?

Nah, didn't say any of that. What it is, that based on the Kerry Turner dumping beside the side of the road, Sarah would loosely around the GPO not in any specific distance, just clockwise somewhere between Kerry and Jane.

The current accused is of the old PMG Telecom which once operated operated out of that particular GPO at the time. And that someone might have hinted at who they are. Which has been said too many times way before the internet, outside internet forums before police were locked down on confidentiality agreements. Jane was direct south of the 'official' coordinates.

It appears there have been a few numptys running around the internet trying to impersonate other users. Never mind.

Lets not talk about it. Wait for the case. Talk about DNA instead of where Sarah might be. Ill desist from geo-spatial location data to find Sarah if it upsets people. Heavens knows why people would object to factual location data. I can only think of ulterior motives.

 

[Dan Baker]

It's everywhere but here's just one:

"Last week, police claimed they had found a DNA match between the dropped silk kimono, the Karrakatta rape and the last murder in the Claremont serial killings of Ciara Glennon."

http://www.news.com.au/national/cou...s/news-story/44d3d60b4c894e632bb30a23a11bc787

Don't forget Janes watch which police stated they gleaned some information from. And of course the clothes and shoes found at Janes site?

 

[Kurve]

Don't forget Janes watch which police stated they gleaned some information from. And of course the clothes and shoes found at Janes site?

The information taken from Jane's watch is interesting, there's been no mention of DNA collected from her so I'm thinking she may have been wearing an automatic where the wrist's movements power the watch. The time the hands stopped moving could be significant?

 

[Dan Baker]

The information taken from Jane's watch is interesting, there's been no mention of DNA collected from her so I'm thinking she may have been wearing an automatic where the wrist's movements power the watch. The time the hands stopped moving could be significant?

I thought the watch might have been smashed at a particular time. I wonder if other evidence was caught in the watch?

 

[patsmith]

Don't forget Janes watch which police stated they gleaned some information from. And of course the clothes and shoes found at Janes site?

Yeah the watch is interesting, did it stop during the attack? Very fortuitous for the police if this is the case. She was seen outside the Conti just after midnight, so if her watch was stopped at 12.10 or something it would provide police with a very basic timeline. They just have no idea where she went after leaving the pub.

Regarding the clothes, I don't think they have ever been officially declared relevant to the investigation. Clothes were found at the crime scene, which would be fairly common alongside a sand dune track. I've never seen it insinuated that they were left by the killer, but I'm sure the police still investigated them.

 

[Kurve]

I thought the watch might have been smashed at a particular time. I wonder if other evidence was caught in the watch?

I think I read somewhere it wasn't found on her body but near? I'd have to re check that but either way the watch likely stopped moving at a certain time after Jane did. Or it was broken but I've destroyed the glass on one of my watches and those hands kept moving. I just can't think of anything else it could be if it's not DNA.

EDIT: If Jane's watch displayed both time and date and it stopped moving when she did, that's even better as far as evidence goes.

 

[patsmith]

I think I read somewhere it wasn't found on her body but near? I'd have to re check that but either way the watch likely stopped moving at a certain time after Jane did. Or it was broken but I've destroyed the glass on one of my watches and those hands kept moving. I just can't think of anything else it could be if it's not DNA.

If it was broken at a time close to her last sighting, it would explain why police were convinced the girls were murdered near Claremont and shortly after they were attacked.

As you said though, I've smashed watches and they kept ticking. Maybe Jane had the presence of mind to pull the reset pin out after she was attacked? So many questions, so little concrete info!

 

[Bunnie]

If it was broken at a time close to her last sighting, it would explain why police were convinced the girls were murdered near Claremont and shortly after they were attacked.

As you said though, I've smashed watches and they kept ticking. Maybe Jane had the presence of mind to pull the reset pin out after she was attacked? So many questions, so little concrete info!

As nice as it would have been, i doubt very few people would think of pulling their watch pin during an abduction/attack

 

[Dan Baker]

If it was broken at a time close to her last sighting, it would explain why police were convinced the girls were murdered near Claremont and shortly after they were attacked.

As you said though, I've smashed watches and they kept ticking. Maybe Jane had the presence of mind to pull the reset pin out after she was attacked? So many questions, so little concrete info!

The watch was found away from the body apparently at the site.


"Jane is naked, her clothing, handbag and some jewellery items are missing. Police delay broadcasting details of the missing jewellery to prevent the killer panicking and dispoing of them.
The only piece of jewellery found, much later, is Jane's watch, a small distance from her body. The rain, relentlessly pounding her for 54 days, has turned the crime scene into a quagmire, such a washout that Dave Caporn, with pursed lips and extreme understatement, will describe it to the press as being not 'fertile'. It does not provide any clues. But the lilies surround her, tall as a picket fence."

Reference: Marshall, D., 2007. The Devils Garden - The Claremont Serial Killings. 1st ed. Australia: Random House Australia .

 

[Bunnie]

Still waiting for a statement of innocence from BRE or anyone connected to him. Really getting quite odd. No-one coming forward publically. It's weird.

 

[Dan Baker]

Still waiting for a statement of innocence from BRE or anyone connected to him. Really getting quite odd. No-one coming forward publically. It's weird.

He is in remand. I don't even think there is a plea until the prosecution has collated evidence in its entirety. Don't be surprised if they go another 8 weeks. It sounds like there is witnesses etc coming in from everywhere.

 

[sprockets]

Nah, didn't say any of that. What it is, that based on the Kerry Turner dumping beside the side of the road, Sarah would loosely around the GPO not in any specific distance, just clockwise somewhere between Kerry and Jane.

The current accused is of the old PMG Telecom which once operated operated out of that particular GPO at the time. And that someone might have hinted at who they are. Which has been said too many times way before the internet, outside internet forums before police were locked down on confidentiality agreements. Jane was direct south of the 'official' coordinates.

It appears there have been a few numptys running around the internet trying to impersonate other users. Never mind.

Lets not talk about it. Wait for the case. Talk about DNA instead of where Sarah might be. Ill desist from geo-spatial location data to find Sarah if it upsets people.

Apologies, I had to go back and read at some of your posts to see your point. You're saying that ONE of the girls was deliberately placed directly south of the GPO while the other one wasn't. I see a pattern.

 

[sprockets]

Looking at the map, it seems she was dumped in bushland just off the main road, exactly where you'd expect someone to be dumped.

 

[Molly Dooker]

Still waiting for a statement of innocence from BRE or anyone connected to him. Really getting quite odd. No-one coming forward publically. It's weird.

Would a media blackout extend to not publishing any material at all about the case? - that doesn't come courtesy of a police statement, that is. Such as a family member declaring BRE's innocence? Sounds like it would...but would it prevent his legal team making a statement as to his innocence?

 

[Dan Baker]

Looking at the map, it seems she was dumped in bushland just off the main road, exactly where you'd expect someone to be dumped.

At the time, Woolcoot road was limestone track until it hit Miller road, where the road became bitumen.

At one point, Woolcoot was a short cut to Mandurah. Im not sure whether it was at the time. The freeway infrastructure was not there.

Mathew77

 

[AAACockburn]

On the boundary of a pony club.

 

[Kurve]

Would a media blackout extend to not publishing any material at all about the case? - that doesn't come courtesy of a police statement, that is. Such as a family member declaring BRE's innocence? Sounds like it would...but would it prevent his legal team making a statement as to his innocence?

I doubt it would prevent his legal team from making a statement but I think he's keeping silence up until the time he sees exactly what they've got on him and then he'll give his instructions. They've brought detectives in from the eastern states to help so the investigation is still active, they could come up with anything by the end of March when he has to plead.

It's really frustrating there's hardly any information coming out and expecting when the trial commences if he pleads not guilty, for them to try putting suppression orders on everything like they did through the Snowtown trial so the public doesn't know what's gone on. It will be convenient for both sides but inappropriate, this has been the longest, most expensive investigation paid for by the public, trial funded by the public and the public particularly the people of Western Australia fully entitled.