Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

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_Mike_

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don't like the idea of wasting a pick on a guy who is 31 in may and with one kidney
he has been a great warrior and may still be but i'm uncomfortable
though as things have panned out, i'm guessing and bar injury
BMac will play Talia, Roberts off the bat to galvanise the grp
and having the big cat down back will offer some added flexibility
releasing roughhead to play high forward (coz im still to be impressed by a guy who has all through his career been bathed by B graders (not to mention A grade forwards)

status luke warm on the trade
your suggestions have merit, I too am concerned about the Lonergan offer. Seems a waste of money IMO
 
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I think he will. They wouldn't have let this out into the media if he Griff wasn't gone and Macca wasn't staying.
Sorry, I don't buy it. I've been on the fence for a long time and I've been in support of giving the current structure more time for just as long - but there is no excuse for it getting this far. There have been issues boiling up since mid-season and when the journalists tried to pick up on it the fans howled them down, and the club continuously gave us spin about "hard reviews." Enough is enough.

Griffen is a loyal man who absolutely loves the club. When it comes to this, there is a problem, whether it wants to be seen or not. If we keep the same high-up structure - coach included - after this, there are bigger problems than we even imagine right now. It's time for change.
 

G-Mo77

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Coach has officially lost me. Griffen is not the type of person to be a destabilising influence. This is a mess. I'm a broken man.
That's it right there.

There was a tweet from Emma Quayle earlier that read something similar.

Emma Quayle ‏@emmasq 7m7 minutes ago
Griffen has always struck me as one of the least likely people to make a rash decision. Would have taken a lot for him to reach this point.

I don't know how on Earth we can recover with McCartney coaching in 2015. How many members have we lost today on just this news alone? How many more would we lose if he stayed? How many more players will we lose? It's time for a clean slate. Trade Griffen sack McCartney.
 

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_STREET_

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Hard to take someone who has "Street: The greatest ruckman of all time" in their sig seriously :p
Look at street, just look at him... No man or woman could hold their own against him on or off the field.
But, I wouldn't come into a thread like this just after this news to poke the bear.... Macca has to go, this has gone too far now. What is happening at the club right now is pretty much the definition of cancer, and he is where its steaming from.
 

timtamWB

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Sorry, I don't buy it. I've been on the fence for a long time and I've been in support of giving the current structure more time for just as long - but there is no excuse for it getting this far. There have been issues boiling up since mid-season and when the journalists tried to pick up on it the fans howled them down, and the club continuously gave us spin about "hard reviews." Enough is enough.

Griffen is a loyal man who absolutely loves the club. When it comes to this, there is a problem, whether it wants to be seen or not. If we keep the same high-up structure - coach included - after this, there are bigger problems than we even imagine right now. It's time for change.
I'm not going to delve into whether Macca should go or stay.

My only point was that Macca won't go this year. If he was going to go, then Griffen wouldn't have publicly announced his attention to leave. And as it is, the coach can't now come out and say that he's leaving and get Griffen to stay at the club. It's just horribly unprofessional, but everything about this situation is.

Change is happening. But now it's the entire culture that's changing, from the coach down. We're too far gone either way and we have to ride this out. From now on, everything is on Macca's head. He's got his way, the coach controls the club, so whatever happens is now up to Macca.
 

immortalmike

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Sorry, I don't buy it. I've been on the fence for a long time and I've been in support of giving the current structure more time for just as long - but there is no excuse for it getting this far. There have been issues boiling up since mid-season and when the journalists tried to pick up on it the fans howled them down, and the club continuously gave us spin about "hard reviews." Enough is enough.

Griffen is a loyal man who absolutely loves the club. When it comes to this, there is a problem, whether it wants to be seen or not. If we keep the same high-up structure - coach included - after this, there are bigger problems than we even imagine right now. It's time for change.
Agree entirely.
 
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I don't trust Barrett info as far as I can throw it but FWIW he suggested that Griffen tried to voice the players' concerns to Garlick/Gordon etc before the end of the season and nothing came of it. If true, serious changes are needed high up.

Personally, right now, I just want answers. No more spin. Enough. We get it, you don't want to tell us what's going on; but it's at the point now where the lack of clear communication and prevalence of spin is absolutely ******* ridiculous and needs to be changed. Now. If they think they can just trade Griffen and get us on board with a new plan as if it's a clean slate, they are entirely wrong.
 

Leezorr

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Kids thrown to the wolves........ relax guy, Griffen barley played this year. We have size in the middle, we will get 2-3 great players, this will be a turning point in our history for the better.
 
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I'm not going to delve into whether Macca should go or stay.

My only point was that Macca won't go this year. If he was going to go, then Griffen wouldn't have publicly announced his attention to leave. And as it is, the coach can't now come out and say that he's leaving and get Griffen to stay at the club. It's just horribly unprofessional, but everything about this situation is.

Change is happening. But now it's the entire culture that's changing, from the coach down. We're too far gone either way and we have to ride this out. From now on, everything is on Macca's head. He's got his way, the coach controls the club, so whatever happens is now up to Macca.
I can see your point, but on the bolded: if moving Griffen is the result of a "cultural change," then that's just as much of an issue. Griff is the furthest thing from a destabilising influence on culture, as immortalmike said. Cultural change is fine - but if a mature, loyal player that SHOULD be part of the cultural solution walks out on the club, the culture is well and truly heading in the wrong direction.
 

timtamWB

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I can see your point, but on the bolded: if moving Griffen is the result of a "cultural change," then that's just as much of an issue. Griff is the furthest thing from a destabilising influence on culture, as immortalmike said. Cultural change is fine - but if a mature, loyal player that SHOULD be part of the cultural solution walks out on the club, the culture is well and truly heading in the wrong direction.
It's entirely possible that both Griffen and McCartney both had different ideologies and they were clashing, and neither is really the bad guy, but both were being stubborn and something had to give. Or that something happened and Griffen had to leave because the club just didn't suit him. I'm trying to play devil's advocate more than anything.

There's still far too much water to go under the bridge though before we get a semblance of what's really happened.
 
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It's entirely possible that both Griffen and McCartney both had different ideologies and they were clashing, and neither is really the bad guy, but both were being stubborn and something had to give. Or that something happened and Griffen had to leave because the club just didn't suit him. I'm trying to play devil's advocate more than anything.

There's still far too much water to go under the bridge though before we get a semblance of what's really happened.
In that case, I ask you: who should win out in that situation? A loyal, AFL captain who has given us 200 extremely good games and helped us to three preliminary finals, and almost a grand final - or an AFL coach that has overseen three years of development with a stagnating win/loss column? In my mind, it's the player every time - especially when you couple him with the others that want out, or have been rumoured to be frustrated.

I realise you're more just playing devil's advocate but I just can't see a scenario where McCartney is still coach and the club can sell a future with him at the helm. Whether you still support him or not, our supporter base adores Ryan. Combined with the rumours of unrest, they will not stand for him quitting the club. I would be incredibly surprised if we don't lose a large number of members next year if Macca remains coach. As a club that already struggles for members and finances, we can't allow it to get to that.

I do however agree with your last point. I just don't see how this club can sell a future vision to a supporter base that loves Ryan Griffen with Macca in charge, no matter the details.
 

Sharkey66

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While I see your point, he's gone on record to say that he needs one more draft and then he'll have the right players in place. So if we're not at the very least challenging for finals in 2016, that's enough time for me.

As for what his serious damage could be (and I know that these aren't necessarily your thoughts) the club's future prospects look bright, with potential once in a lifetime players like Bontempelli and a serious group of midfielders. We've gained members since he's been put in charge, and looking to increase on this. There's been more exposure of the Bulldogs in the media this year, and most of it til the end of the season has been positive. An exodus could happen, but losing Cooney, Jones and Tutt isn't an exodus really. Only Jones is a big loss, I'm a fan of Tutt's but not a big loss. So most of that possible damage is actually a positive for McCartney, or at least it is in my mind.

And as for the other supporters that make a decision on what they read in the papers or Facebook, we can't really do much about them whatsoever. And the majority of those supporters, yes even the idiots, are thinking that the fact that there's a rift between older players and the coach is stupid. Whether that's true or not remains to be seen, but I don't think it's impacting members much.
In light of todays news does this need a rethink mate. I would say Griffen wanting to leave is fairly serious damage to the fabric of the club.
A club captain doesn't walk out on his club very often, the fallout from this will be bad.
Even if the club does not trade him as they are saying he is a required player and will be expected to see out his contract, if he stays his position as club captain is untenable.
Just got home and have been out of internet contact all day, so dont know what else has been said in the thread on this yet, heard the news and am pretty shattered right now.
Just dont know how i feel about the club direction right now.
 

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In that case, I ask you: who should win out in that situation? A loyal, AFL captain who has given us 200 extremely good games and helped us to three preliminary finals, and almost a grand final - or an AFL coach that has overseen three years of development with a stagnating win/loss column? In my mind, it's the player every time - especially when you couple him with the others that want out, or have been rumoured to be frustrated.
This - almost any player wanting to go would have been sated by picks, but Griff?
I do however agree with your last point. I just don't see how this club can sell a future vision to a supporter base that loves Ryan Griffen with Macca in charge, no matter the details.
And this. Our marketing dept must be drinking themselves into an absolute stupor as we speak.
 
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